Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

[Franchise FC]

I disagree that an argument doesn't exist. It's your language I'm questioning. This isn't a couple of people who feel picked on so need to make a change to their life, or a group of people who have decided that they 'feel victimised', it's a societal problem that we all bear responsibility for. Well, most of us, anyway, based on

if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told.

It's not much a stretch to suggest that you don't believe that it is.

So, apart from your version of somebody ought to do something about it-what do you suggest?
i have come up with an idea that might be radical but also might get a message across.

Football associations, UEFA, FIFA etc, need to get tough on racism in football grounds. And that needs to be both a professional and grass roots level. Matches should be abandoned, points forfeited, places in competitions lost.

Telling black players that if they really feel victimised then they should walk off is not 'radical', it is implicitly suggesting that there is no problem to be dealt with.

The only part of that I'd suggest needs modification is that it needs to be the officials that make the decision to leave the field. Otherwise, when losing 3-0, black player says 'I've been racially abused, I'm off'.

Not perfect, I know

[Victor Meldrew]

So, apart from your version of somebody ought to do something about it-what do you suggest?
i have come up with an idea that might be radical but also might get a message across.

Football associations, UEFA, FIFA etc, need to get tough on racism in football grounds. And that needs to be both a professional and grass roots level. Matches should be abandoned, points forfeited, places in competitions lost.

Telling black players that if they really feel victimised then they should walk off is not 'radical', it is implicitly suggesting that there is no problem to be dealt with.

The only part of that I'd suggest needs modification is that it needs to be the officials that make the decision to leave the field. Otherwise, when losing 3-0, black player says 'I've been racially abused, I'm off'.

Not perfect, I know

Which is what I have suggested previously, i.e. the ref should make the decision not the player.
I'm afraid sanguine just doesn't read things or open his mind to think things through (contrary to his own boasts in the UK politics thread)-I said that they HAVE walked off (e.g. in Italy? ) not that they SHOULD walk off.

Also the players appear to think that the professional bodies aren't doing enough so , if they feel that is the case, why not just refuse to play for their country until they are content that enough has been done?.
Only then maybe will the authorities take things seriously when they see that the national side would be detrimentally affected-white players might also come out in sympathy.

Normally when withdrawal of labour takes place there is often financial hardship but players earn so little when turning out for England the loss of income, for the sake of principle, is negligible.

[Sanguine]

Football associations, UEFA, FIFA etc, need to get tough on racism in football grounds. And that needs to be both a professional and grass roots level. Matches should be abandoned, points forfeited, places in competitions lost.

Telling black players that if they really feel victimised then they should walk off is not 'radical', it is implicitly suggesting that there is no problem to be dealt with.

The only part of that I'd suggest needs modification is that it needs to be the officials that make the decision to leave the field. Otherwise, when losing 3-0, black player says 'I've been racially abused, I'm off'.

Not perfect, I know

Which is what I have suggested previously, i.e. the ref should make the decision not the player.
I'm afraid sanguine just doesn't read things or open his mind to think things through (contrary to his own boasts in the UK politics thread)-I said that they HAVE walked off (e.g. in Italy? ) not that they SHOULD walk off.

Also the players appear to think that the professional bodies aren't doing enough so , if they feel that is the case, why not just refuse to play for their country until they are content that enough has been done?.
Only then maybe will the authorities take things seriously when they see that the national side would be detrimentally affected-white players might also come out in sympathy.

Normally when withdrawal of labour takes place there is often financial hardship but players earn so little when turning out for England the loss of income, for the sake of principle, is negligible.

I've read things through. I'm materially disagreeing with your points, and you are either ignoring or not understanding mine. It isn't for black players to sort out racism, it is for football to sort it out.

Also the players appear to think that the professional bodies aren't doing enough so , if they feel that is the case, why not just refuse to play for their country until they are content that enough has been done?.
Only then maybe will the authorities take things seriously when they see that the national side would be detrimentally affected-white players might also come out in sympathy.

You also make a casual implication again here that the 'problem' maybe doesn't exist, or not to the extent that those pesky players are suggesting that it does.

You can come back and try to make silly points about my politics or that I'm not engaging, or you can accept that I am, and address the points I've raised. Or not bother at all.

[Victor Meldrew]

The only part of that I'd suggest needs modification is that it needs to be the officials that make the decision to leave the field. Otherwise, when losing 3-0, black player says 'I've been racially abused, I'm off'.

Not perfect, I know

Which is what I have suggested previously, i.e. the ref should make the decision not the player.
I'm afraid sanguine just doesn't read things or open his mind to think things through (contrary to his own boasts in the UK politics thread)-I said that they HAVE walked off (e.g. in Italy? ) not that they SHOULD walk off.

Also the players appear to think that the professional bodies aren't doing enough so , if they feel that is the case, why not just refuse to play for their country until they are content that enough has been done?.
Only then maybe will the authorities take things seriously when they see that the national side would be detrimentally affected-white players might also come out in sympathy.

Normally when withdrawal of labour takes place there is often financial hardship but players earn so little when turning out for England the loss of income, for the sake of principle, is negligible.

I've read things through. I'm materially disagreeing with your points, and you are either ignoring or not understanding mine. It isn't for black players to sort out racism, it is for football to sort it out.

Also the players appear to think that the professional bodies aren't doing enough so , if they feel that is the case, why not just refuse to play for their country until they are content that enough has been done?.
Only then maybe will the authorities take things seriously when they see that the national side would be detrimentally affected-white players might also come out in sympathy.

You also make a casual implication again here that the 'problem' maybe doesn't exist, or not to the extent that those pesky players are suggesting that it does.

You can come back and try to make silly points about my politics or that I'm not engaging, or you can accept that I am, and address the points I've raised. Or not bother at all.

All you are trying to do is slyly imply that I am racist so I won't bother any more especially as you just keep on doing a Theresa May and making the same point over and over again but with no valid suggestions.
The authorities ought to be dooing something-nobody is arguing about that, it is a question of whether there is any other way and I have made a serious suggestion that seems to be too much outside of your conservative box to consider.

[Sanguine]

All you are trying to do is slyly imply that I am racist so I won't bother any more especially as you just keep on doing a Theresa May and making the same point over and over again but with no valid suggestions.
The authorities ought to be dooing something-nobody is arguing about that, it is a question of whether there is any other way and I have made a serious suggestion that seems to be too much outside of your conservative box to consider.

I'm not implying that you are racist, I'm just highlighting it as strange that after, for example, England players are subjected to monkey noises, you keep using the phrase 'if there is a problem....'.

As for out of the box thinking, you've again told me I won't 'consider' you argument when in fact I've flatly rejected it four times now. It isn't for black players to resolve this it is for football to resolve it. If players are to leave the field then all players should leave the field.

[Victor Meldrew]

All you are trying to do is slyly imply that I am racist so I won't bother any more especially as you just keep on doing a Theresa May and making the same point over and over again but with no valid suggestions.
The authorities ought to be dooing something-nobody is arguing about that, it is a question of whether there is any other way and I have made a serious suggestion that seems to be too much outside of your conservative box to consider.

I'm not implying that you are racist, I'm just highlighting it as strange that after, for example, England players are subjected to monkey noises, you keep using the phrase 'if there is a problem....'.

As for out of the box thinking, you've again told me I won't 'consider' you argument when in fact I've flatly rejected it four times now. It isn't for black players to resolve this it is for football to resolve it. If players are to leave the field then all players should leave the field.

You don't seem to have grasped the solution.
I'm not on about leaving the field of play, I am saying don't play, i.e. withdrawing labour (it means that you don't turn up for work), don't make yourself available for selection whether you are black or white until you are satisfiedthat enough has been done.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Wayne Hennessey gets off with an FA charge of giving a Nazi salute as he "didn't know what one was"...…...lolwut

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him



Has he never seen Escape To Victory?

[The Enfield Royal71]

Wayne Hennessey gets off with an FA charge of giving a Nazi salute as he "didn't know what one was"...…...lolwut

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him



Has he never seen Escape To Victory?

.its as ridiculous as the rfu letting mako vunipola off of supporting homophobia because he is one of their best players

[tmesis]

Wayne Hennessey gets off with an FA charge of giving a Nazi salute as he "didn't know what one was"...…...lolwut

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him



Has he never seen Escape To Victory?

.its as ridiculous as the rfu letting mako vunipola off of supporting homophobia because he is one of their best players

It's one for the strange attitude we have in society. An awful lot of staunchly religious people will have similar views, simply because that's what their religion preaches. It's not about hating people, it's about believing what they do is "sinful".

The double standard is that we don't have any problem with people having such views, as long as they keep those views to themselves.

[Vision]

Wayne Hennessey gets off with an FA charge of giving a Nazi salute as he "didn't know what one was"...…...lolwut

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him



Has he never seen Escape To Victory?

.its as ridiculous as the rfu letting mako vunipola off of supporting homophobia because he is one of their best players

Though perhaps less ridiculous than confusing two brothers and labelling the wrong one "homophobic"

[6ft Kerplunk]

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him

Yeah, always been strong on the whole don't do Nazi salutes the FA.

[Snowflake Royal]

Wayne Hennessey gets off with an FA charge of giving a Nazi salute as he "didn't know what one was"...…...lolwut

The FA agree he was just ignorant of it...….seriously, how did they not throw the book at him



Has he never seen Escape To Victory?

.its as ridiculous as the rfu letting mako vunipola off of supporting homophobia because he is one of their best players

It's one for the strange attitude we have in society. An awful lot of staunchly religious people will have similar views, simply because that's what their religion preaches. It's not about hating people, it's about believing what they do is "sinful".

The double standard is that we don't have any problem with people having such views, as long as they keep those views to themselves.

We do have a problem with people having those views, but they are entitled to have them.

The people we're talking about though are also high profile representatives of organisations who have a duty to publicly conform to and uphold their organisation's values.

[exileinleeds]

Monkeys have re-written Shakespeare, and I am agreeing with Sanguine.

Why should BAME adapt for the racists? Which of us would put up with abuse of any level just because of our paypacket?

FIFA needs to do more, the FA needs to do more, every club needs to do more.

For clubs, plaster the home and away concourses with imaginitive posters reminding fans that banter is a massive part of being a fan, supporting your team. Chants based on race, colour or sexual orientation is not.
Imagine RFC taking the lead and telling travelling fans- free ticket for next away game if you report one of our own for racist/homophobic abuse aimed at players or supporters...'Does Your Boyfriend Know You're Here' really shouldn't be chucked at Brighton fans....we don't like it, but they are just like Reading fans - in a different shirt

We could all work and make a tiny effort to move thing forward a bit.

Imagine for example what PR/Column Inches/Twitter RT's Spurs would get if they offered any club playing at WHL 50% discount next game for supporters of clubs who make no mention of their Jewish connection (or any other racist chants)...They'd get even more air time if they banned supporters from clubs who do it....

Imagine if Reading, going into last game of the season- away- needing a point - and no supporters cos some racist twats had spewed out some abuse the previous season. We, the fans, would makes sure it didn't happen.

Call it out. Confront it. Why should the victims of abuse be the ones to change their dreams, their ambitions, their lives? Shouldn't it be those who chuck abuse be the ones to change.

Let's support and create original witty banter....Call out the cheats & substandards on the field, They have a great game, or a shit game- but it aint cos they is black, or cos the person they is shagging is same gender, or cos they come from wherever....

It is us that has to change.

[paultheroyal]

The fact that England have as good as qualified for the euros, it’s an absolute given that the players will walk off against Bulgaria if abuse comes their way.

[sandman]

The fact that England have as good as qualified for the euros, it’s an absolute given that the players will walk off against Bulgaria if abuse comes their way.

The question is whether the Bulgarians walk off if the England fans racially abuse them like they are alleged to have done on Saturday.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/d39f9l/racist_chants_by_english_fans_towards_the/

[FiNeRaIn]

The fact that England have as good as qualified for the euros, it’s an absolute given that the players will walk off against Bulgaria if abuse comes their way.

The question is whether the Bulgarians walk off if the England fans racially abuse them like they are alleged to have done on Saturday.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/d39f9l/racist_chants_by_english_fans_towards_the/

So out of a 4 minute video there was one guy, who actually sounded Scottish, chant " oxf*rd gpysy" and that's warranted 300 replies in reddit comparing English to Italian racism?

[Hendo]

Jfc.

https://twitter.com/SkyFootball/status/1173523845782933506

"The only way to stop him is to say, here are ten bananas that you can eat."

A pundit on Italian TV was immediately suspended following racist comments he made on-air regarding Inter Milan striker Romelu Lukaku...

[Old Man Andrews]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... elu-lukaku

Italian football is full of racists from the very top to the very bottom.

[Winston Biscuit]

https://twitter.com/ZachLowy/status/1191719261489844227?s=19

Youth game in italy at the weekend, young player was racially abused. Both teams involved have said they will make a symbolic gesture in their next game at the weekend coming up by having the players paint their faces black for their respective matches

[stealthpapes]

" ... and we've got Al Jolson doing a version of our national anthem"