Next Season's Squad.

[NewCorkSeth]

For the record my list would be:
Moore
Yiadom
Rinomhota
Meite
Novakovich

Moore
Because we're so short in his position selling him for less than crazy money doesn't bare thinking about.

Yiadom
He's drastically improved the team and we've found getting good RBs hard recently. I can't see him being one of our top earners, or bringing in massive value either.

Rinomhota
The only genuinely reliable and quality central midfielder we have. He's young, he's a connection point for the fans and his value is likely to grow. Unlikely to be a top earner.

Meite
He's one of our most dangerous players and there's a real connection with him to the stands. I think his value is only going to grow with us next season. Unlikely to be a top earner.

Novakovich
Similar to Rino, he poses the opportunity to keep reengaging the fan base as an academy product. Not going to be a top earner and his value is likely to increase after a season with us in the championship.


Barrow isn't on my list because I don't see his value going up, his performances are highly inconsistent and he is going to be a top earner. So cashing in while we can to take a big chunk off the wage bill for a player who isn't very reliable seems a good idea to me. It does leave us weak at LW, but that can have dealt with.

Similarly Swift, Bodvarsson, Blackett and Baldock in some if not all aspects for all of them.

Loader is an odd one. Have a good season and his value rockets. Have a disappointing one and it probably plummets. I'd sell, but not cheap and not if we can cash in big elsewhere on Barrow, Swift or Bod.

For me its:
Yiadom - Genuinely convinced hes one of the best RBs in the league.

Moore - Leader and obviously a very good CB at this level. Probably the hardest to replace and as you say, we have no other senior CBs.

Rinomhota - Smashed my expectations last season. I'm hoping for a big season from him. As essential to our midfield as Moore is to our defence.

Meite - Raw but exciting at times and very passionate. He might not ever iron out the inconsistencies in his game but he is strong on the ball, quick and has a good instinct for goal.

Loader - Because I'm aboard the hype train. Toot toot motherfuckers.

[NewCorkSeth]

It all helps of course but can’t see Kelly going saving too much salary wise and can’t see it being a particularly large fee either.

Wonder if he might leave on a season loan deal instead.

Didn't he get a new deal when we finished 3rd and Stam said he was one of the best passers in the world.... around the time Gourlay came in?

Hound fair enough. I do worry we're targeting the wrong slots. Rino needs a partner and if Kelly goes it's gambling on East or playing Swift, Olise or (should he come Ejaria) out of position with no real back up until we sign someone else.

How many players did we use in CM last year?
Meyler
Bacuna
Kelly
Swift
Rinomhota
Ejaria
East
O'Shea...

I agree it's not Ejarias best position but he did really well as a deeper CM when he made brief cameos there last season. Wish we had half a chance of getting Baker back.

[Hound]

We’ve a chance of Baker back I reckon.

I suspect the midfield will be made up mainly of Rino, Swift, Ejaria this season, which I think is reasonable. Potentially Baker or another loan replacing Swift or Ejaria in the first 11

It’s a shame none of the stronger U23s are proper midfielders - not too convinced by what I saw of East, though was obviously fleeting

[URZZZZ]

Out of contract end of year so season long loan and he’ll be finished with us

Just to back to the above - my main issue with Kelly for a while is I don’t know what he is - attacking mid? no. Defensive mid? No. Playmaker? No. Ballwinner? No. Creative mid? No. Lampard style goalscorer? No.

I don’t know what a direct replacement for him would be because I don’t know what he actually does, other than everything averagely

Evans left 12 months ago

I’ve always regarded him as a deep lying playmaker

Side point but out of those 6 attributes Rino is, I wonder what you’d define him as. Not having a dig at Rino because he’s quality but I’m not sure he has a defined style either

[NewCorkSeth]

We’ve a chance of Baker back I reckon.

I suspect the midfield will be made up mainly of Rino, Swift, Ejaria this season, which I think is reasonable. Potentially Baker or another loan replacing Swift or Ejaria in the first 11

It’s a shame none of the stronger U23s are proper midfielders - not too convinced by what I saw of East, though was obviously fleeting

Ezatolahi would have been nice.. I reckon Baker is hoping he gets a look in at Frank Lampards Chelsea..

[NewCorkSeth]

Out of contract end of year so season long loan and he’ll be finished with us

Just to back to the above - my main issue with Kelly for a while is I don’t know what he is - attacking mid? no. Defensive mid? No. Playmaker? No. Ballwinner? No. Creative mid? No. Lampard style goalscorer? No.

I don’t know what a direct replacement for him would be because I don’t know what he actually does, other than everything averagely

Evans left 12 months ago

I’ve always regarded him as a deep lying playmaker

Side point but out of those 6 attributes Rino is, I wonder what you’d define him as. Not having a dig at Rino because he’s quality but I’m not sure he has a defined style either

Rinomhota is a box to box mid. Or at least he can be. All the physical and mental attributes to be one.

Kelly is a roaming playmaker. An absolute luxury player. Yes he tried to get stuck in but it didn't suit him. He needs the freedom to move around the pitch but his final ball fell to shit after Stam left.

[Hound]

Rino is an aggressive and athletic centre mid, who wins a lot of the ball and drives forward through dribbling forward

But yes Box to box would be the simplest description

[URZZZZ]

Box to box was my original thought of Rino but Denver made a good point that he barely even shoots never mind scores which makes it difficult to call him that. Unless the characteristic of “box to box” has indeed changed

A good engine really, driving up and down the pitch but saying a “good engine” seems harsh

Should just be DM, CM, and AM, but now everything seems to have advanced from simplicity

[NewCorkSeth]

Box to box was my original thought of Rino but Denver made a good point that he barely even shoots never mind scores which makes it difficult to call him that. Unless the characteristic of “box to box” has indeed changed

A good engine really, driving up and down the pitch but saying a “good engine” seems harsh

Should just be DM, CM, and AM, but now everything seems to have advanced from simplicity

First season jitters could explain his lack of shooting. When he did finally pull the trigger he looked calm, composed and showed good technique. Nothing to suggest he wont go on to take his chances more in the future.

[Hendo]

Ejaria wouldn’t be an upgrade on Kelly because they play in different positions. One is a deep lying midfielder who plays in the midfield two, the other ambles around in random positions, not really doing much but is meant to be part of the “3” behind the striker. East, for example would be an upgrade on Kelly in the context you’re talking about because they play in the same position. Ejaria and Kelly don’t

very harsh on Ovie, to say he ambled around not doing much is doing him a disservice.

[Snowflake Royal]

Out of contract end of year so season long loan and he’ll be finished with us

Just to back to the above - my main issue with Kelly for a while is I don’t know what he is - attacking mid? no. Defensive mid? No. Playmaker? No. Ballwinner? No. Creative mid? No. Lampard style goalscorer? No.

I don’t know what a direct replacement for him would be because I don’t know what he actually does, other than everything averagely

Evans left 12 months ago

I’ve always regarded him as a deep lying playmaker

Side point but out of those 6 attributes Rino is, I wonder what you’d define him as. Not having a dig at Rino because he’s quality but I’m not sure he has a defined style either

Yeah. He's a short slow Harper. Hassles and begins play.

[Hound]

Well whatever he is, he is off - not in the squad today. Southwood neither.

Mind you, neither is Swift from the look of it - not sure if anything can be read into that. Hopefully JLow can find out

Edit: Ian can relax, Swift is on

[Hound]

Anthony Smith reckons GMac could be heading to the US and Charlton want Baldock

[Notts Royal]

Rino is an aggressive and athletic centre mid, who wins a lot of the ball and drives forward through dribbling forward

But yes Box to box would be the simplest description

Exactly - Rino is your typical central midfielder. Similar to Sidwell - great engines. The type that used to be more common in they can do everything. This modern trend of midfielders like Kelly who can play the odd Hollywood ball, but can’t tackle or do much, is overrated

Rinomhota is 10x the player Kelly is

[URZZZZ]

Yet isn’t it funny a number of people said Norwood was like that and he’s been promoted more times to the Premier League in the last 3 seasons than we have in our history....interesting

Will be a good move for McCleary, games a bit slower paced over there which will suit him. Unlikely Gunter will follow, probably the first time in 10/11/12 seasons Gunter and McCleary won’t be with each other. Good signing for Charlton as well, pretty sure they play a 4-4-2 or something similar which suits his game

[SCIAG]

Rinomhota had a good season last year but he didn't perform as well as Kelly at his best. For one thing Kelly's defensive ability is underrated (though not to the same extent as Norwood) and there's very little between them in that regard. Rinomhota covers more ground but Kelly reads the game much better so his starting position is stronger. Kelly's also much better at striking the ball. Rinomhota's strengths are his pace and his ball carrying. They both need to work on their consistency but they're young.

Still haven't replaced Evans and Joey so we shouldn't remotely be thinking about letting Kelly go unless it is for enough money to sign Baker. The way he's been treated is even stranger than Southwood.

[Simon's Church]

Yet isn’t it funny a number of people said Norwood was like that and he’s been promoted more times to the Premier League in the last 3 seasons than we have in our history....interesting

I don't think Kelly will be as good as Norwood but I see what you're saying. Also seems like much of the criticism aimed at Kelly is the same as Baker faced at his teams before coming here. Both have shown that in the right system and with a manager that trusts them they can be very good championship midfielders.

[Snowflake Royal]

Yet isn’t it funny a number of people said Norwood was like that and he’s been promoted more times to the Premier League in the last 3 seasons than we have in our history....interesting

I don't think Kelly will be as good as Norwood but I see what you're saying. Also seems like much of the criticism aimed at Kelly is the same as Baker faced at his teams before coming here. Both have shown that in the right system and with a manager that trusts them they can be very good championship midfielders.

Norwood, Kelly, Harper... it's almost like some of our fans don't understand a certain type of midfielder, because they were all slated here for Hollywood passes, pointing, doing nothing, not tackling etc.

You could probably add Guthrie and Matejovski to that but they of course had other issues.

By contrast, if you pull off some nice dribbling, the odd worldly, flash pass or run down a lot of blind allies or lose your head you get venerated.

[Notts Royal]

Rinomhota had a good season last year but he didn't perform as well as Kelly at his best. For one thing Kelly's defensive ability is underrated (though not to the same extent as Norwood) and there's very little between them in that regard. Rinomhota covers more ground but Kelly reads the game much better so his starting position is stronger. Kelly's also much better at striking the ball. Rinomhota's strengths are his pace and his ball carrying. They both need to work on their consistency but they're young.

Still haven't replaced Evans and Joey so we shouldn't remotely be thinking about letting Kelly go unless it is for enough money to sign Baker. The way he's been treated is even stranger than Southwood.

Yes but Rinomhota played consistently to a good standard. When you’re in a relegation battle, that is more what you need than a “flash” player who’s been effective in about 10% of his games for the club.

Also - James Harper is an unfair comparison. The bloke played at a high tempo and harried opposition players week in week out. Can’t say the same about Kelly.

Norwood - 3 promotions but only in 1 of those was he a consistent starter. Bit-part player for both Brighton & Fulham

[Hound]

Rinomhota had a good season last year but he didn't perform as well as Kelly at his best. For one thing Kelly's defensive ability is underrated (though not to the same extent as Norwood) and there's very little between them in that regard. Rinomhota covers more ground but Kelly reads the game much better so his starting position is stronger. Kelly's also much better at striking the ball. Rinomhota's strengths are his pace and his ball carrying. They both need to work on their consistency but they're young.

Still haven't replaced Evans and Joey so we shouldn't remotely be thinking about letting Kelly go unless it is for enough money to sign Baker. The way he's been treated is even stranger than Southwood.

Just don’t agree with this. Don’t want to go into another full on Kelly debate but he’s had plenty of games, and really only performed in 20 odd in Stam season 1. Evans was desperately average but I agree Joey season 1 hasn’t been replaced adequately

It’s not a case of not understanding him Ian. It’s just he isn’t that good. Gomes can see that. The stats from last year show that.

He needs a move. He has gone stale here. If he can get back to how he was a couple of years ago - fresh start, new hunger then best of luck to him.