Next Season's Squad.

[Zip]

I don’t think Kelly’s defensive abilities have been under-rated. He is physically always up against it and it shows on the pitch. I would also question his work rate at times over the past couple of seasons. Ironically it had improved just before he was dropped last season.

As has been said he has had plenty of chances but was part of a dreadful midfield in 2017/18 and a failing one last season prior to Gomes arrival. He needs to move on.

[Hound]

I do genuinely hope it works out for him elsewhere - Stam is interested again and that would be a cracking move for him. If he could have the influence he had when he first came into the side for someone else, they’ve got themselves a good player

[Snowflake Royal]

Rinomhota had a good season last year but he didn't perform as well as Kelly at his best. For one thing Kelly's defensive ability is underrated (though not to the same extent as Norwood) and there's very little between them in that regard. Rinomhota covers more ground but Kelly reads the game much better so his starting position is stronger. Kelly's also much better at striking the ball. Rinomhota's strengths are his pace and his ball carrying. They both need to work on their consistency but they're young.

Still haven't replaced Evans and Joey so we shouldn't remotely be thinking about letting Kelly go unless it is for enough money to sign Baker. The way he's been treated is even stranger than Southwood.

Just don’t agree with this. Don’t want to go into another full on Kelly debate but he’s had plenty of games, and really only performed in 20 odd in Stam season 1. Evans was desperately average but I agree Joey season 1 hasn’t been replaced adequately

It’s not a case of not understanding him Ian. It’s just he isn’t that good. Gomes can see that. The stats from last year show that.

He needs a move. He has gone stale here. If he can get back to how he was a couple of years ago - fresh start, new hunger then best of luck to him.

Wasn't particularly targeting that at you Hound, you aren't clueless, but then you did just literally say you didn't know what his role was.

[Snowflake Royal]

Regardless of him being good enough, Gomes' treatment of Kelly has come across as poor and one of jose's few weaknesses as a manager.

It's very unusual (and uncharacteristic of Gomes) to openly criticise an individual player in public. Especially when those criticisms of performance wlreally weren't warranted and there were numerous other players doing poorly to choose from.

[Stranded]

Regardless of him being good enough, Gomes' treatment of Kelly has come across as poor and one of jose's few weaknesses as a manager.

It's very unusual (and uncharacteristic of Gomes) to openly criticise an individual player in public. Especially when those criticisms of performance wlreally weren't warranted and there were numerous other players doing poorly to choose from.

I think you need to understand why that happened. Could well be Gomes had tried all other methods to boost the player, both in trainingand matches but they had failed. Only option possibly left was to use "the stick".

[Snowflake Royal]

Regardless of him being good enough, Gomes' treatment of Kelly has come across as poor and one of jose's few weaknesses as a manager.

It's very unusual (and uncharacteristic of Gomes) to openly criticise an individual player in public. Especially when those criticisms of performance wlreally weren't warranted and there were numerous other players doing poorly to choose from.

I think you need to understand why that happened. Could well be Gomes had tried all other methods to boost the player, both in trainingand matches but they had failed. Only option possibly left was to use "the stick".

Timing and subject all wrong even if it was necessary.

If it's a long running issue, don't reward him with a game against Utd. And don't criticise him for a 20 minute performance where he got injured and the keeper sent him a hospital ball that lead to a goal.

[morganb]

According to

http://www.football-oranje.com/feyenoor ... idfielder/

it's got as far as

The 23-year-old Kelly has already had his medical in Rotterdam but Feyenoord are still to agree a fee with Reading.

[Hound]

Regardless of him being good enough, Gomes' treatment of Kelly has come across as poor and one of jose's few weaknesses as a manager.

It's very unusual (and uncharacteristic of Gomes) to openly criticise an individual player in public. Especially when those criticisms of performance wlreally weren't warranted and there were numerous other players doing poorly to choose from.

I think you need to understand why that happened. Could well be Gomes had tried all other methods to boost the player, both in trainingand matches but they had failed. Only option possibly left was to use "the stick".

Timing and subject all wrong even if it was necessary.

If it's a long running issue, don't reward him with a game against Utd. And don't criticise him for a 20 minute performance where he got injured and the keeper sent him a hospital ball that lead to a goal.

Strongly expect the reason he fell out with Gomes was t just 20 poor minutes

Guessing Kelly either took that substitution very badly, or he generally wasn’t following instructions

Either way, something really pissed Gomes off that day

[Zip]

How much do nobbers think we will get for Kelly? Maybe £1 million?

[URZZZZ]

Anyone know what Frost and Holsgrove are like? Saw them in the XI today but never really heard of them. Do they have a chance of making the squad next season or were they squad fillers?

[URZZZZ]

How much do nobbers think we will get for Kelly? Maybe £1 million?

Yeah Stam likes him so he’ll pay a bit but he’ll know the situation with him and the OOC business so not much more than that

[Hound]

Yep Jaap will use the situation brought on by his own shit signings to get him on the cheap

500k

[SCIAG]

Rinomhota had a good season last year but he didn't perform as well as Kelly at his best. For one thing Kelly's defensive ability is underrated (though not to the same extent as Norwood) and there's very little between them in that regard. Rinomhota covers more ground but Kelly reads the game much better so his starting position is stronger. Kelly's also much better at striking the ball. Rinomhota's strengths are his pace and his ball carrying. They both need to work on their consistency but they're young.

Still haven't replaced Evans and Joey so we shouldn't remotely be thinking about letting Kelly go unless it is for enough money to sign Baker. The way he's been treated is even stranger than Southwood.

Just don’t agree with this. Don’t want to go into another full on Kelly debate but he’s had plenty of games, and really only performed in 20 odd in Stam season 1. Evans was desperately average but I agree Joey season 1 hasn’t been replaced adequately

It’s not a case of not understanding him Ian. It’s just he isn’t that good. Gomes can see that. The stats from last year show that.

He needs a move. He has gone stale here. If he can get back to how he was a couple of years ago - fresh start, new hunger then best of luck to him.

Think that's somewhat ahistorical- he was very good at the start of Stam's second season. I think he might have been top scorer when he got injured with us in mid-table?

I just don't recognise the criticisms being made tbh. I understand people thinking he can't tackle (they're wrong but it's intuitive) but people thinking he is just an outright bad player? It's like we're watching different players. IMO Kelly has never had a game where he looked like East against Leeds or Meyler in his last appearance. That's rather borne out by him being linked to Udinese and Feyenoord rather than Fleetwood and Doncaster.

[URZZZZ]

His social media hasn’t helped him either, tweeting straight after a defeat, congratulating opponent players, and “other stuff”

^ even as a Kelly fan, he has had some stinkers so not sure about the comparison with East and Meyler

[SCIAG]

Anyone know what Frost and Holsgrove are like? Saw them in the XI today but never really heard of them. Do they have a chance of making the squad next season or were they squad fillers?

Holsgrove is a joy to watch, one of the most talented players we've ever produced. Best comparison is probably to Swift. Absolute koala tea. Whether that translates to being an effective Championship midfielder is another question.

Frost is hard to pin down. Like a modern day Andy Hughes. He's technical but doesn't have a clear position so gets shunted around a lot. Very good option on the bench but has never really made an U23 position his own.

[URZZZZ]

Anyone know what Frost and Holsgrove are like? Saw them in the XI today but never really heard of them. Do they have a chance of making the squad next season or were they squad fillers?

Holsgrove is a joy to watch, one of the most talented players we've ever produced. Best comparison is probably to Swift. Absolute koala tea. Whether that translates to being an effective Championship midfielder is another question.

Frost is hard to pin down. Like a modern day Andy Hughes. He's technical but doesn't have a clear position so gets shunted around a lot. Very good option on the bench but has never really made an U23 position his own.

Thanks. You seem knowledgeable on the academy side of things, interested about Holsgrove because I thought he’d been around for a while and just never really got anywhere

[Hound]

I just don't recognise the criticisms being made tbh. I understand people thinking he can't tackle (they're wrong but it's intuitive) but people thinking he is just an outright bad player? It's like we're watching different players. IMO Kelly has never had a game where he looked like East against Leeds or Meyler in his last appearance. That's rather borne out by him being linked to Udinese and Feyenoord rather than Fleetwood and Doncaster.

Have a lot of time for you SCIAG and sure you accept a lot of football is about opinions. And yes you are correct he did start Stam season 2 very well. But he has been pretty poor since, and I’m not sure there is much to defend in the last 18 months

He certainly isn’t a bad player. Just one who has lost his way through either poor coaching or his own attitude, or more likely a bit of both. We might look back and regret letting him go, but he is currently offering little. Again not a biggie for just stats, but his defensive stats were about on par with Swift’s last year and well below Rino. Gomes clearly doesn’t rate. And tbf, Feyenoord and Udinese are interested but doesn’t sound like anyone else much is

Understand you’ve probably watched more of him from a young age and seen what he can do as well, and I’m sure we all hope he can hit that level again

[URZZZZ]

How much do nobbers think we will get for Kelly? Maybe £1 million?

You mention that actually, just saw Courtney said the fee for Kelly was “very interesting”. Whether that’s a high or low number, we’ll see

[Hound]

He suggests low. Be very lucky to get 1m

[linkenholtroyal]

I think Kelly is a shame I would have preferred to see some of the others move on first. Cm is an area we are very light in and we are asking a lot of the youngsters as things stand.