Puscas

[Snowflake Royal]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Er... Doyle never scored 20 goals in a season.

[Snowflake Royal]

Caskey, Cureton, Butler - Playing in League 1.

Well yeah, but ability is relative and I don't think you could say any of them proved they were clearly too good for L1. Not to the extent that say Gylfi did at PL vs Chumpionship.

I was looking for a bit more than just too good for that level. But I don't think you could say that in any way describes Puscas at this level if you do want to keep it that simple.

I think there's an argument that Cureton was because he was a consistant goalscorer at a higher level for us Colchester.

I knew Curo had played a bit more at Champ level, but wasn't sure if he'd been consistently successful.

[Westwood52]

Actually, I think it's an interesting question to look at our 20 men and try to deduce what they had that got them there.

Morley - expert penalty taker and winner, bags of experience. Good on crosses at a time when they were common.

Caskey - freekick and penalty specialist

Cureton - fox in the box, clever goalscorer with a good touch

Butler - the mists of time and being away at his best mean I'm not sure...

Kitson - really skillful, good on crosses, penalties, movement - everything but pace and he wasn't exactly slow

Sigurdsson - way too good for our level, great set pieces and needed very little room to whip one in the top corner

Long - pace, strength and the ability to win and convert penalties.

TBH, Puscas has done alright and has potential, but for me he doesn't have the one outstanding attribute or all round quality to match those players and hit those heights.

A consistently fit Joao might.

Butler was a very good player.Had it all,good finisher,quick,intelligent,good in the air.The big boys were just about to come calling;when he had a very bad injury which effectively finished him.

[Snowball]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods (Correction: went to Premiership Burnley)
Glenn Murray (Correction: went to Premiership with Brighton)

Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake

Three season is enough for me to see a VERY clear pattern (every 20+ player promoted)
haven't been back to check these

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Looking at the last three completed seasons, you're wrong

Looking at

2016-17
2017-18
2018-19

There were 14 20+ players. ALL went to The Premiership.

Like Shane Long, Chris Wood started the following season still in the Champ.
he played one game and then was transferred to Burnley, The Premiership

Just one player from 15 (Grabban) who scored 20, not 20+ stayed down.


Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January.


2017-18

21 (22) Vydra (Derby) then sold to Premiership Burnley
20 (20) Grabban (Sunderland/Villa) Stayed down, 17 Goals following season

2016-17

27 (30) Chris Wood (Leeds). Transferred to premiership Burnley
23 (23) Glenn Murray (Brighton) Promoted to P{REM (16 Prem Goals next Season)
23 (26) Tammy Abraham (Bristol Loanee) Next Season with Swansea (PREM)
23 (23) Dwight Gayle (Newcastle) Into Prem with Promoted Newcastle


So of the last 14 20+ goal Championship players, EVERY SINGLE ONE was “promoted”

Just one exactly 20-goal player stayed down = Grabban

[Snowball]

How players succeeded or not in the Prem is irrelevant.

The point is almost every one LEFT the Championship

[Snowball]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Er... Doyle never scored 20 goals in a season.

That STRENGTHENS my argument.

Doyle got 18 Championship goals and the was enough to get to the Premiership

You know logic, yes? I was talking about 20+ men getting promoted. The fact that someone with 18 ALSO gets promoted doesn't change that. What it shows is that top strikers move on

[SouthDownsRoyal]

id like it if Puscas could score 20 goals next seaso

Think we would do well. As snowball says almost all 20plus strikers either go up or move on so they rarely do it year after year

[Snowball]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Gayle 19 Appearances for Premiership Newcastle this season (3 goals 2 assists) is hardly "no impact"

But the point is, he was 20+ in the championship and ended in the Premiership

[Snowball]

id like it if Puscas could score 20 goals next seaso

Knowing RFC we may well lose him and see him do it for someone else!

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I'd have liked to have seen Puscas and Joao play together more this season; sadly Joao's decent run during the festive period Puscas was injured and then got injured himself when Puscas returned to fitness and some form.

Bowen has hardly had the option of playing them together

[SouthDownsRoyal]

id like it if Puscas could score 20 goals next seaso

Knowing RFC we may well lose him and see him do it for someone else!

Yes, tha5 could happen

[Snowball]

Rhodes is a rare one, but he is another who eventually was promoted for his goals

2012/13 50 Apps 29 Goals Blackburn Championship
2013/14 48 Apps 25 Goals Blackburn Championship
2014/15 47 Apps 21 Goals Blackburn Championship

2015/16 44 Apps 17 Goals Blackburn Championship
Then transferred to Premiership Middlesboro <<<<<<<<<<


Then seemed to “fall off a cliff”

2016/17 26 Apps 3 Goals Boro, Championship
2017/18 35 Apps 7 Goals Boro, Championship
2018/19 40 Apps 9 Goals Boro, Championship
2019/20 19 Apps 3 Goals Boro, Championship

[Snowball]

I'd have liked to have seen Puscas and Joao play together more this season; sadly Joao's decent run during the festive period Puscas was injured and then got injured himself when Puscas returned to fitness and some form.

Bowen has hardly had the option of playing them together

A season-long fit Joao helping Puscas with Meite RW (or on as a 65th minute sub) would be very exciting

[Snowball]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Every single one of your four examples went to play premiership Football!

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (you give as an example of someone whose goals DIDN’T get him promoted):


2008-09 24 (24) Wolves PROMOTED with Wolves to Premiership

Eventually relegated with Wolves 2011/12 (13 Goals that following Championship season)

[Snowball]

So that is 14 + 4 + 4 more


25 Long = got sold to Premiership

22 Gylfi = sold to Bundesliga, eventually settled in Premiership

18 Doyle = promoted to Premiership

18 Kitson = promoted to Premiership

Only Grabban (so far I've found) stayed down

Rhodes "stayed down" stayed with Blackburn but was then sold to Premiership Boro


Not sure how many "promoted" top-scorers we need to list before a pattern emerges.


PS I never followed the Premiership or Championship before 2006/07

[From Despair To Where?]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Every single one of your four examples went to play premiership Football!

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (you give as an example of someone whose goals DIDN’T get him promoted):


2008-09 24 (24) Wolves PROMOTED with Wolves to Premiership

Eventually relegated with Wolves 2011/12 (13 Goals that following Championship season)

Chris Woods Scored 20 goals, 9 for Millwall and 11 for Leicester in the Championship before moving to Leeds. He did get promoted with Leicester but was loaned back to the Championship them sold to Leeds.

Sylvan Banks Blake scored 20+ goals in consecutive seasons in the Championship. The first season was split between Wolves and Plymouth.

Fair enough, Murray scored 20+ for Brighton in League 1 before signing for Palace in the Championship but then scored 20+ for Brighton when moving back down to the Championship

Jordan Rhodes had 3 consecutive 20+ seasons in the Championship with Blackburn before being sold to another Championship team. The season Middlesbrough got promoted, he scored 16 for 2 clubs.

[Sutekh]

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Every single one of your four examples went to play premiership Football!

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (you give as an example of someone whose goals DIDN’T get him promoted):


2008-09 24 (24) Wolves PROMOTED with Wolves to Premiership

Eventually relegated with Wolves 2011/12 (13 Goals that following Championship season)

Chris Woods Scored 20 goals for Millwall and Leicester in the Championship before moving to Leeds. He did get promoted with Leicester but was loaned back to the Championship them sold to Leeds.

Sylvan Banks Blake scored 20+ goals in consecutive seasons in the Championship. The first season was split between Wolves and Plymouth.

Fair enough, Murray scored 20+ for Brighton in League 1 before signing for Palace in the Championship but then scored 20+ for Brighton when moving back down to the Championship

Jordan Rhodes had 3 consecutive 20+ seasons in the Championship with Blackburn before being sold to another Championship team. The season Middlesbrough got promoted, he scored 16 for 2 clubs.

Out of interest Jordan Rhodes (now 30) joined Middlesbrough in Feb 2016 and scored 6 in 18, he then managed 0 in 6 in the PL. Overall his goal scoring ratio has dropped off a cliff since leaving Blackburn.

[From Despair To Where?]

Every single one of your four examples went to play premiership Football!

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (you give as an example of someone whose goals DIDN’T get him promoted):


2008-09 24 (24) Wolves PROMOTED with Wolves to Premiership

Eventually relegated with Wolves 2011/12 (13 Goals that following Championship season)

Chris Woods Scored 20 goals for Millwall and Leicester in the Championship before moving to Leeds. He did get promoted with Leicester but was loaned back to the Championship them sold to Leeds.

Sylvan Banks Blake scored 20+ goals in consecutive seasons in the Championship. The first season was split between Wolves and Plymouth.

Fair enough, Murray scored 20+ for Brighton in League 1 before signing for Palace in the Championship but then scored 20+ for Brighton when moving back down to the Championship

Jordan Rhodes had 3 consecutive 20+ seasons in the Championship with Blackburn before being sold to another Championship team. The season Middlesbrough got promoted, he scored 16 for 2 clubs.

Out of interest Jordan Rhodes (now 30) joined Middlesbrough in Feb 2016 and scored 6 in 18, he then managed 0 in 6 in the PL. Overall his goal scoring ratio has dropped off a cliff since leaving Blackburn.

It's also interesting how many of the 20+ Championship strikers don't make much impact in the Premiership, either playing for struggling teams or getting transferred back to the Championship.

Anyway, I shall move on now because snowball still hasn't satisfactorily explained why any player should be "expected" to score 20 goals a season when on average, only 3 or 4 players a season across the whole division actually achieve it.

[Nameless]

I'd have liked to have seen Puscas and Joao play together more this season; sadly Joao's decent run during the festive period Puscas was injured and then got injured himself when Puscas returned to fitness and some form.

Bowen has hardly had the option of playing them together

A season-long fit Joao helping Puscas with Meite RW (or on as a 65th minute sub) would be very exciting

Would be interesting to select a side that would accommodate that plus Ejaria, Olise and Swift.

[karbota]

id like it if Puscas could score 20 goals next seaso

Knowing RFC we may well lose him and see him do it for someone else!

Wishful thinking?.