Puscas

[Franchise FC]

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.

Every single one of your four examples went to play premiership Football!

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (you give as an example of someone whose goals DIDN’T get him promoted):


2008-09 24 (24) Wolves PROMOTED with Wolves to Premiership

Eventually relegated with Wolves 2011/12 (13 Goals that following Championship season)

Chris Woods Scored 20 goals, 9 for Millwall and 11 for Leicester in the Championship before moving to Leeds. He did get promoted with Leicester but was loaned back to the Championship them sold to Leeds.

Sylvan Banks Blake scored 20+ goals in consecutive seasons in the Championship. The first season was split between Wolves and Plymouth.

Fair enough, Murray scored 20+ for Brighton in League 1 before signing for Palace in the Championship but then scored 20+ for Brighton when moving back down to the Championship

Jordan Rhodes had 3 consecutive 20+ seasons in the Championship with Blackburn before being sold to another Championship team. The season Middlesbrough got promoted, he scored 16 for 2 clubs.

Can I be pedantic and say that Chris Woods was a decent goalkeeper and, to the best of my knowledge, never scored at all, let alone 20 in a season.
Chris Wood on the other hand ...

[SouthDownsRoyal]

id like it if Puscas could score 20 goals next seaso

Knowing RFC we may well lose him and see him do it for someone else!

Wishful thinking?.

Maybe, carbooter.

PUKKI must have scored or been close to 20 goals last season

[Snowball]

I've collected the stats for Championship Top-Scorers from 2009-10 through to 2018-19

There are 50 players scoring 19 or more league goals. I chose 19 because most get a cup goal or two but it was taking forever to check

Of the 50 players, 34 (68%) went straight away to the Premiership, 1 to Celtic

2 Stayed down one season and were sold to the Prem the following season
4 Stayed down one season and gained promotion to the Premiership

Just 9 (18%) stayed down

19 Promoted to Premiership with Club
13 SOLD to Premiership Club
1 Season Loan to Premiership Club
1 Returned to Chelsea. Played prem Season
1 SOLD to Celtic
2 Stayed Down - Sold to Prem Following Season
4 Stayed Down - Promoted Following season

9 Stayed Down (Grabban, Deeney, Rhodes, appear more than once)

RAW DATA


2018 2019 29 30 Teemu Pukki Norwich (1) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2018 2019 25 26 Tammy Abraham Villa (5, PO) Went into Premiership Returned to Premiership Chelsea
2018 2019 25 28 Neil Maupay Brentford Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Brighton
2018 2019 23 24 Billy Sharp Sheffield Utd (2) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2018 2019 23 24 Dwight Gayle WBA (4) Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Newcastle
2018 2019 22 22 Jay Rodriguez WBA (4) Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Burnley
2018 2019 22 22 McBurnie Swansea Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Sheffield Utd
2018 2019 22 22 Che Adams Birmingham Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Southampton
2018 2019 22 22 Jarrod Bowen Hull Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership West Ham
2017 2018 21 22 Vydra Derby Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Burnley
2017 2018 20 20 Grabban Sunderland/Villa STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2016 2017 27 30 Chris Wood Leeds Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Burnley
2016 2017 23 26 Tammy Abraham Bristol Went into Premiership Loaned to Premiership Swansea
2016 2017 23 23 Glenn Murray Brighton Went into Premiership Promoted with Club
2016 2017 23 23 Dwight Gayle Newcastle Went into Premiership Promoted with Club
2015 2016 22 ?? Konstantopulous Boro Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2015 2016 20 ?? Tom Heaton Burnley Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2015 2016 19 ?? Allan McGregor Hull Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2014 2015 27 ?? Daryl Murphy Ipswich STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2014 2015 21 ?? Jordan Rhodes Blackburn SOLD to Boro Promoted to Premiership 2016-17
2014 2015 21 ?? Troy Deeney Watford (2) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2014 2015 20 ?? Odion Ighalo Watford (2) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2014 2015 20 ?? Callum Wilson Bournemouth 91) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2014 2015 20 ?? Rudy Gestede Blackburn Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Villa
2013 2014 28 ?? Ross McCormack Leeds STAYED DOWN Sold to QPR
2013 2014 25 ?? Jordan Rhodes Blackburn STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2013 2014 24 ?? Troy Deeney Watford STAYED DOWN Sold Following Season to Premiership
2013 2014 22 ?? Lewis Grabban Bournemouth Sold to Norwich Promoted Next Season, then sold to Premiership Bournemouth
2013 2014 22 ?? Chris Martin Derby STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2013 2014 22 ?? Danny Ings Burnley (2) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2013 2014 20 ?? Sam Vokes Burnley Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2013 2014 20 ?? David Nugent Leicester Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Leicester
2013 2014 19 ?? Charlie Austin QPR Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2012 2013 30 ?? Glenn Murray Palace Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2012 2013 29 ?? Jordan Rhodes Blackburn (5) STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2012 2013 24 ?? Charlie Austin Burnley Sold to QPR Promoted with QPR Following Season
2012 2013 22 ?? Chris Wood Leicester (6) STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2012 2013 22 ?? Vydra Watford (3) Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership WBA
2012 2013 20 ?? Troy Deeney Watford (3) STAYED DOWN Promoted Following Season
2011 2012 27 ?? Rickie Lambert Saints Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2011 2012 22 ?? Ricardo Vaz Te Barnsley/West Ham Went into Premiership Promoted with club Sold to West Ham, January
2011 2012 19 ?? Billy Sharp Doncaster/Saints Went into Premiership Promoted with club Sold to Saints, January
2010 2011 24 27 Danny Graham Watford Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership Swansea
2010 2011 21 25 Shane Long Reading (5) Went into Premiership SOLD to Premiership WBA
2010 2011 19 ?? Luciano Becchio Leeds (7) STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2010 2011 19 ?? Adel Taarabt QPR Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2010 2011 19 ?? Scott Sinclair Swansea (3) Went into Premiership Promoted with club
2009 2010 22 ?? Peter Whittingham Cardiff (4) STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2009 2010 20 ?? Nick Maynard Bristol STAYED DOWN STAYED DOWN
2009 2010 19 ?? Gary Hooper Scunthorpe Sold to CELTIC Scottish Premiership

[Snowball]

So, the point is, if 68% of players getting 19+ goals go straight into the Premiership
and a further 12% manage it the following season, then OF COURSE it will be rare
to see players getting 20+ in 2-3-4 consecutive seasons!

if they are that good and consistent they get promoted or bought!


I can forward the spreadsheet

[From Despair To Where?]

Why are you even bothering with this Snowbot, that wasn't even my original point. However, if you need to be proven right on something, crack on trying to prove a different point whilst the original one sails away over the horizon. Read back through the thread and you will realise that very early on, you completely misread a couple of my posts and gone off at a tangent, arguing points I hadn't even made.

You see, here's my original post

The mythical 20 goal a season striker that every club needs whereas, in reality on average, only 4 or 5 players in the whole Championship achieve it each season. I suppose Jimmy Quinn achieved it twice (once in the league) in 6 years but the last consistant 20 goal a season striker we had was Trevor Senior in his first spell and they achieved that in the equivalent if League 1. No-one's achieved it more than once in the Championship on all competitions (Morley, Kitson, Gylfi, Long) and Kitson was the only consistent 15-20 goal a season striker.

I'd rather have two strikers getting 12-16 each. Means we don't rely too heavily on one source of goals. Out forwards have contributed 40 goals this season, If anything, our midfield have underachieved in that respect.

Puscas has done alright. There has been a lot of expectation generated by the alleged fee and he has been inconsistent at times but, considering the mitigating factors of a new country etc. there's plenty to build on.

I think I've been fairly consistant throughout, only expanding on my original post in response to subsequent posts by other people. No straw manning here.


I will however add that in the modern day of larger squads and greater rotation, the need for a fabled 20 goal a season player is rapidly diminishing and as we move towards a cohort of forwards capable of scoring 30-40 between them, it's just no longer as rellevant as in the days of 18 man squads and 1 substitute.

I re-itterate, just in case it's still not clear, that "expecting" someone to score 20 goals is not helpful or particularly relevant to modern football or still even achieved that frequently.

If Meite, Joao and Puscas combine for 40 goals next season, and the midfield can chip in with 20, I'll be very happy, regardless of how many each of them score.

Fin.

[sandman]

So, the point is, if 68% of players getting 19+ goals go straight into the Premiership
and a further 12% manage it the following season, then OF COURSE it will be rare
to see players getting 20+ in 2-3-4 consecutive seasons!

if they are that good and consistent they get promoted or bought!


I can forward the spreadsheet

Could you? That would be amazing.

[royalp-we]

Joined the club the same week as 4/5 others and because of the fee is expected to be 4/5 times the player. We haven’t been a very good team this year and he’s done very well to get 14. Clearly a talent, now a regular international and look forward to seeImg what he can achieve with the right players round him.

[morganb]

Quote from Neil Warnock:

"George Puscas I was looking at when I signed Robert Glatzel for Cardiff - he was my second choice actually."

Who would you rather - Puscas or Glatzel?

[Sutekh]

Quote from Neil Warnock:

"George Puscas I was looking at when I signed Robert Glatzel for Cardiff - he was my second choice actually."

Who would you rather - Puscas or Glatzel?

Puscas. Glatzel hasn’t exactly over performed either with 8 goals in 30 appearances plus I think he’s a couple of years older.

[Zip]

Cardiff fans were moaning about Glatzel all season. Now he’s started scoring goals they are happier.
Puscas all the way for me.

[andrew1957]

We have yet to see the best of him but if we can keep hold of him and he can keep fit for 2020/21 Puscas definitely has 20 goals in a season potential IMO.

In fact considering we have often played one up front or two at the most, our strikers have done well this season in the Championship with:
Meite - 12
Puscas - 11
Jaoa - 6
Baldock - 4

Under the circumstances 33 goals is a good return.

[Snowball]

We have yet to see the best of him but if we can keep hold of him and he can keep fit for 2020/21 Puscas definitely has 20 goals in a season potential IMO.

You'll be in trouble!

[Snowflake Royal]

We have yet to see the best of him but if we can keep hold of him and he can keep fit for 2020/21 Puscas definitely has 20 goals in a season potential IMO.

You'll be in trouble!

There's a difference between saying he has potential and will be a comfortable 20 goal a season player.

So he's fine.

[Millsy]

So, the point is, if 68% of players getting 19+ goals go straight into the Premiership
and a further 12% manage it the following season, then OF COURSE it will be rare
to see players getting 20+ in 2-3-4 consecutive seasons!

if they are that good and consistent they get promoted or bought!


I can forward the spreadsheet

Could you? That would be amazing.

actually made me laugh out loudly

Serioiusly though Snowball that's really interesting. Decent strikers tend to go quickly to the PL either being sold or going up with their clubs.

What's interesting for me is hwo many of those who go up with the club are doing well just because the club is generally doingn well i.e. solid team, excellent service. It's all interlinked.

[Snowball]

Just making the point that players don't have 2-3-4 consecutive years over 20-goals
(even 18s/19s) in the championship NOT because it's difficult to repeat, but because
they move upstairs.

My mention of the spreadsheet was just that I had collected the evidence, wasn't making things up!

[Jackson Corner]

For the money we paid overall a disappointment. I can think of several games away where he missed some great chances to score Hull, Borough Swansea Bristol City. All of which cost us points. There have been times when his lack of control hold up play has given the ball away far to cheaply and cost us goals QPR Away springs to mind.
Having said that a lot of times he has had to live of scraps and his lack of pace is a real concern.
For me next season’ is make or break.

[Westwood52]

Does he have extreme pace ? No.
Is he an instinctive goal scorer ? No.How many times has the ball gone into the box and he is not there.
Can he hold the ball up ? No.He gets nowhere near it in the air and is often bundled off it on the deck.
Is he a good attacking header Of the ball in the six yard Box ? No

On the plus side:

His finishing stats in the box are probably the right side of average.
Play the ball through the lines into space and he will out sprint most CB s and then hit a powerful shot.
Rarely injured and keeps going.I am usualy surprised he is taken off.
He is not selfish if someone is in a better position.However for a striker that can be a fault.
His goal return this season,is respectable.

For two mill,he is worth keeping; but if add ons take the price much beyond that,then no.

[Snowball]

Does he have extreme pace ? No.
Is he an instinctive goal scorer ? No.How many times has the ball gone into the box and he is not there.
Can he hold the ball up ? No.He gets nowhere near it in the air and is often bundled off it on the deck.
Is he a good attacking header Of the ball in the six yard Box ? No

On the plus side:

His finishing stats in the box are probably the right side of average.
Play the ball through the lines into space and he will out sprint most CB s and then hit a powerful shot.
Rarely injured and keeps going.I am usualy surprised he is taken off.
He is not selfish if someone is in a better position.However for a striker that can be a fault.
His goal return this season,is respectable.

For two mill, he is worth keeping; but if add ons take the price much beyond that,then no.

He doesn't get a lot of chances. What's his conversion rate overall?

He plays like he doesn't like how he's being asked to play. He needs balls to feet more, or balls down the channels. IMO he is so obviously a second striker to a big lump. When given freedom he can do OK, Cardiff home being a great example.

I would not be surprised to see him sold at a loss and immediately perform for another club.

Matej Vydra, (a quiet season for Derby then 21 goals, and sold to Premiership 4 goals 4 assist 19-20)
Billy Sharp (23 Championship goals last season, 3 in the Prem this)
Grabban has scored 20-19-20 goals in the three seasons since he left us a failure


We seem to not use our strikers well these last 5 or so seasons

[Snowflake Royal]

Think he's definitely not a partner to a big lump. That kinda describes Meite and the two don't do a lot when paired up front together.

And the big lump + second striker pairing died out years ago, and we aren't set up for it.

Puscas reminds me more of a nastier and stronger Church. He's alright, just a bit average.

[Snowball]

Meite is a rubbish target man

Bowen is right to play him wide either as RW or right of three

If all the requirement is “big” why not put a centre back there?