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[muirinho]

Don’t be fooled by the score we were second best. Apart from a brief spell when we came from 3-1 down and looked like an undeserved victory.. we have so many poor or overrated players. We have spent millions on Aluko Puscas, McNulty Barrow and Moore and none of them have been any good. I bet Preston, Swansea, Millwall and Brentford have worked on a fraction of our budget and had decent seasons compared to us.
The club love to bang on about our brilliant academy but in reality out of the 50 odd players how many have been any good? Brentford scrapped there academy hasn’t done them any harm.
I don’t believe in sacking another manager will achieve anything as we do need stability.
But I will be suprised if he his still there by Xmas.

Maybe by binning what's not looking like it'll work out long term and replacing it with someone with experience who can make us more successful at home is someone we can build stability with. If Bowen is still manager in a year from now and improves us I'll eat my words.

He has no excuses for next season if he gets to build his own side with new signings, the league is looking weaker next season with no Leeds, West Brom and probably no Brentford or Fulham in it. Villa, I don't see the teams coming down being stronger than those going up. Plus teams coming up like Wycombe and Rotherham will be favourites to drop. Possibly Coventry too. They don't even know where they'll be playing. If he gets up top half challenging for the playoffs he'll have done a good job.

Why do you think Bowen is looking like he won't work out long term?

Let's just recap a moment here shall we.

1) Bowen came in as an advisor to Gomes and results picked up.

2) Bowen was made DoF and asked by Gomes to take a step back from involvement with the squad and match days. Results nose dived.

3) Cabral and Morrison have been excellent signings, Puscas and Joao have been reasonably successful or look very promising etc, all under Bowen as DoF

4) Bowen took over from Gomes and we've gone from relegation flailers to mid-table mediocrity occasionally flirting with play off aspirations

5) We entered restart basically safe, and basically out of the play offs, so nothing to play for

5) Our home form is awful, but that is nothing new by any stretch of the imagination

6) We're giving game time to excellent young prospects

7) we have the opportunity to make great strides towards clearing out deadwood, with someone in charge who has seen what they're all like already

Bowen has his first chance to start building the squad he wants

9) We have no big warchest to buy our way out of trouble and give a new guy, and that approach has singularly failed repeatedly

10) Why would any replacement for Bowen elbe any better, there's a reason we've been getting inexperienced or poor managers and it's because in our state we are not attractive. Good managers like Hughton won't touch us with a barge pole, so all we're likely to do is exchange a guy whose done ok with one who quickly is shown to be clueless like Gomes

We have got to stop expecting that our problems can be solved quickly, that we should be at the top of the league and that going through a manager every nine months is a workable situation.

We used to laugh at Leeds and co for their ridiculous sacking rate. And now our fans actually want us to be run as if we are them 4 years ago!!

NO!

Patience is a virtue. Exercise some.

Thanks, saves me the bother of typing all of that!

[One Beer is never enough.]

I didnt like Bowen's appointment and I am not a fan of the style of football he has the team playing.

Teams should play to win, not play not to lose. He is far too negative for my liking.

I wasnt keen on Coppell's appointment, I thought he took too long to make the decision and that his heart wasnt in it.

Some of the football those first few years was dire as he moved players on and brought in those who could play the way he wanted.

Over time he changed my mind and got the team playing to win.

I hope Bowen, given time, changes my mind. However his background/ education within the game as an assistant to a manager who set his teams up not to lose doesnt inspire me. There's no point in calling for his head, its clear he's going nowhere at the moment, so I'll just keep hoping...

[Franchise FC]

+1 for Ian’s post

We have found our level and bar some miracle I think we will stay here for a while. Mid table championship is Good enough for me. And we haven't had a proper lot of money for years so I'm not complaint.

Really don’t get the idea of Bowen being sacked or hoping he’ll be gone by Christmas etc

Genuinely think he has done about as well as could have been hoped in the circumstances. The club was in a complete mess when he took over - it still is to an extent.

Bit of stability, cut the squad and wage bill, small steps forward on the pitch is absolutely fine by me

No more sacking managers, letting them blow £10m on new players whilst sidelining other etc please

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

I think Man Utd supporters would disagree

[Ascotexgunner]

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

I think Man Utd supporters would disagree

Football has changed since then.......Money is king. No manager is going to be given the time he was given in any league without achieving something great.

[Ascotexgunner]

If a more distinguished Championship manager with a great Championship record becomes available/shows an interest in managing us we would be silly to not consider it. Bowen comes across as a very cheap, "yes man" option who the board/Kia Joorabchian can tell what to do. We need a proper manager imo who can do it in our league, someone of Gary Rowett's ilk just as an example.

Which available managers fit the bill and would be interested in coming to Reading? I always hear names mentioned but in reality they never end up becoming manager. Sometimes you have to stick with what you have and give the existing manager time.

You're absolutely not wrong, your point is one I'd normally agree with as I don't like changing managers willy nilly but there is just something about Bowen that I don't like and I don't trust him to take the team forward.
Ideally I'd like us to start again and build from the bottom up with a manager with a proven track record of managing a long term project. Gareth Ainsworth is that man but I can't see him coming to us now, think he will end up at a front running Championship club eventually. He was very close to coming to us before Gomes got the job and as silly as it may sound I'd much rather have gone down with Ainsworth that season and let him rebuild us with a fit, young and hungry squad than just drift through life with the bunch of chancers we have on the payroll putting in average performances week in and week out.

Think we are all just sick and tired of the constant boredom of turgid football and 14th place finishes. Yes that is probably our level as a club with our finance and fanbase but we have all seen what we can do when we give young players a chance and build a squad and philosophy. We have no footballing philosophy right now, we have no identity. That's our biggest issue.

This......We have appointed wrong manager after wrong manager since being relegated and NA sacking. The West London Scot came closest to the fit but since then we have appointed newbies and chancers......how about this time we actually appoint a manager who has actually achieved something and can has actually "manage".........
Too many people on here seem to dismiss this club as smalltime as if we are still at Elm Park. We have great potential and as said above a good record of bringing the youngsters through. And your right......we have no philosophy, and no plan.....just a big wage bill and players we can't move on.
We were screaming out for Ainsworth (or Graeme Potter in my case who went to Swansea) before Gomes, but ended up with a fake Mourinho.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

+1 for Ian and you posts.

Let's look at the longest serving managers in football, or other teams who've had managers that have served for a while.

Ainsworth
Howe
Dyche
John Coleman
Klopp
Mark Cooper
Chris Wilder
Pep

Maybe bar pep and Klopp, their success wasn't immediate.

I remember Wycombe were struggling badly and almost went down from League 2 I think not too long ago. They gave their manager time and now look. FGR almost got relegated aswell and lost a fair few conference play off finals before they turned okay. As did Accrington who had a great escape then went up.

Bournemouth let's face it have been punching well above their weight and size as a club. Unfortunate it is catching up with them now.

Burnley. Jesus what a job Dyche has done. They don't play attractive football but they are workman like and efficient. He's taken them to great heights.

Klopp took a few years to get things going at Liverpool and what more can you say about that.

What is the common denominator between them? Bar pep, success was never immediate. It takes time to get to where you want to get too and what good does sacking managers so often do?

None. Football is a very fickle sport unfortunately. I'm actually reading Eddie Jones autobiography and he is saying how after England got dicked and lost 7 games in a row, everybody was calling for him to go. He didn't and they got to the wc final.

Very true about it not being about immediate success but also the flip side is that you don’t get long term success just by sticking with a manager

I think Man Utd supporters would disagree

Exactly my point, the success doesn’t just happen if a manager stays for a long time, he has to be the right man to start with.

Otherwise you could argue we should give Jose Gomez a ten year contract

[Snowflake Royal]

Which available managers fit the bill and would be interested in coming to Reading? I always hear names mentioned but in reality they never end up becoming manager. Sometimes you have to stick with what you have and give the existing manager time.

You're absolutely not wrong, your point is one I'd normally agree with as I don't like changing managers willy nilly but there is just something about Bowen that I don't like and I don't trust him to take the team forward.
Ideally I'd like us to start again and build from the bottom up with a manager with a proven track record of managing a long term project. Gareth Ainsworth is that man but I can't see him coming to us now, think he will end up at a front running Championship club eventually. He was very close to coming to us before Gomes got the job and as silly as it may sound I'd much rather have gone down with Ainsworth that season and let him rebuild us with a fit, young and hungry squad than just drift through life with the bunch of chancers we have on the payroll putting in average performances week in and week out.

Think we are all just sick and tired of the constant boredom of turgid football and 14th place finishes. Yes that is probably our level as a club with our finance and fanbase but we have all seen what we can do when we give young players a chance and build a squad and philosophy. We have no footballing philosophy right now, we have no identity. That's our biggest issue.

This......We have appointed wrong manager after wrong manager since being relegated and NA sacking. The West London Scot came closest to the fit but since then we have appointed newbies and chancers......how about this time we actually appoint a manager who has actually achieved something and can has actually "manage".........
Too many people on here seem to dismiss this club as smalltime as if we are still at Elm Park. We have great potential and as said above a good record of bringing the youngsters through. And your right......we have no philosophy, and no plan.....just a big wage bill and players we can't move on.
We were screaming out for Ainsworth (or Graeme Potter in my case who went to Swansea) before Gomes, but ended up with a fake Mourinho.

Why do you think we appointed newbies and chancers if anyone experienced and good had been interested?

Why do you think the people that brought us Gomes would appoint anyone better than Bowen?

Our wages are over 200% of our income, our squad is a mess and we're on the verge of falling very foul of FFP.

Please do explain why a top experienced manager would come here?

How well has sacking someone every few months gone? Why would you want to sack the one guy that's actually got us to improve and move up the table.

Take your head out the clouds before you fall over your own feet.

[Old Man Andrews]

You're absolutely not wrong, your point is one I'd normally agree with as I don't like changing managers willy nilly but there is just something about Bowen that I don't like and I don't trust him to take the team forward.
Ideally I'd like us to start again and build from the bottom up with a manager with a proven track record of managing a long term project. Gareth Ainsworth is that man but I can't see him coming to us now, think he will end up at a front running Championship club eventually. He was very close to coming to us before Gomes got the job and as silly as it may sound I'd much rather have gone down with Ainsworth that season and let him rebuild us with a fit, young and hungry squad than just drift through life with the bunch of chancers we have on the payroll putting in average performances week in and week out.

Think we are all just sick and tired of the constant boredom of turgid football and 14th place finishes. Yes that is probably our level as a club with our finance and fanbase but we have all seen what we can do when we give young players a chance and build a squad and philosophy. We have no footballing philosophy right now, we have no identity. That's our biggest issue.

This......We have appointed wrong manager after wrong manager since being relegated and NA sacking. The West London Scot came closest to the fit but since then we have appointed newbies and chancers......how about this time we actually appoint a manager who has actually achieved something and can has actually "manage".........
Too many people on here seem to dismiss this club as smalltime as if we are still at Elm Park. We have great potential and as said above a good record of bringing the youngsters through. And your right......we have no philosophy, and no plan.....just a big wage bill and players we can't move on.
We were screaming out for Ainsworth (or Graeme Potter in my case who went to Swansea) before Gomes, but ended up with a fake Mourinho.

Why do you think we appointed newbies and chancers if anyone experienced and good had been interested?

Why do you think the people that brought us Gomes would appoint anyone better than Bowen?

Our wages are over 200% of our income, our squad is a mess and we're on the verge of falling very foul of FFP.

Please do explain why a top experienced manager would come here?

How well has sacking someone every few months gone? Why would you want to sack the one guy that's actually got us to improve and move up the table.

Take your head out the clouds before you fall over your own feet.

Not sure the bit about manager not wanting to come here is correct. We are a club with problems for sure but out of work managers want to work, they need to earn a living. Recent example of this is Middlesbrough who brought in Warnock. They are struggling for money and in relegation trouble yet still attracted an experienced and proven manager at this level. If there was a proven Championship manager with a track record of working with a tight budget available then we would be silly to not at least consider a change.

Bowen has got a few good results but it is the bad results and bad performances, especially since lockdown, that have exposed him a bit. At this current stage of proceedings he appears to be a very good number 2 but not a manager.

[Snowflake Royal]

Ahh yeah. Well it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. Clearly the reason we haven't signed on a good experienced manager since Adkins is because we decided we'd prefer mostly inexperienced clowns.

Oh why couldn't we have seen that earlier and just picked someone good.

[Snowflake Royal]

Ahh yeah. Well it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. Clearly the reason we haven't signed on a good experienced manager since Adkins is because we decided we'd prefer mostly inexperienced clowns.

Oh why couldn't we have seen that earlier and just picked someone good.



That anyone is even talking about changing manager is a disgrace.

[Old Man Andrews]

Ahh yeah. Well it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. Clearly the reason we haven't signed on a good experienced manager since Adkins is because we decided we'd prefer mostly inexperienced clowns.

Oh why couldn't we have seen that earlier and just picked someone good.



That anyone is even talking about changing manager is a disgrace.

You're a moron. Utter moron.

[Ascotexgunner]

Ahh yeah. Well it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. Clearly the reason we haven't signed on a good experienced manager since Adkins is because we decided we'd prefer mostly inexperienced clowns.

Oh why couldn't we have seen that earlier and just picked someone good.



That anyone is even talking about changing manager is a disgrace.

I'm happy being a disgrace if it means bringing in a manager with experience of running a team on a tight budget and with a bit of success behind them.
Incidentally check out the interview with Baldock yesterday on BBCRB. Interesting to read into some of the things he said. Apart from the axe to grind with Gomes, I get the impression things are not all rosey in the dressing room.

[Hound]

Of course they aren’t

A 30 man squad with some of the biggest underperformers in the dressing room earning double or more than the rest of them

Judge Bowen when he’s been able to shift people out and shape things how he wants

[Simmops]

Ahh yeah. Well it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. Clearly the reason we haven't signed on a good experienced manager since Adkins is because we decided we'd prefer mostly inexperienced clowns.

Oh why couldn't we have seen that earlier and just picked someone good.



That anyone is even talking about changing manager is a disgrace.

I'm happy being a disgrace if it means bringing in a manager with experience of running a team on a tight budget and with a bit of success behind them.
Incidentally check out the interview with Baldock yesterday on BBCRB. Interesting to read into some of the things he said. Apart from the axe to grind with Gomes, I get the impression things are not all rosey in the dressing room.

Out of the managers that are available now:

1) who would you take
2) who would realistically come here and IMPROVE things
3) who would even want to come here

I agree with Ian. He is right as usual. It is a flagrant disgrace that people are talking about changing managers.

[fred sharpes nose]

The issue is simple, and I think clear as day

Agents slime their way direct to the owners - give them some sales patter show a few vids and bingo we have another random signing Tiimbe Aruna Boye etc. Cash flows all over the place (laundered ?) written off for tax etc outrageous fees wages bungs and back pockets

Whoever is the manger gets given "another player" to try fit into the squad. Plans to promote Academy lads get smashed, pathways blocked etc.

Experienced strong managers would have none of this - and sensibly would walk away. Keen / inexperienced managers are prepared to give it a go

Had great hopes when Nigel came back to gain some control but I suspect he is just given orders and told to follow. He seems to have gone quiet after his initial burst back on the scene - some great statements PR and actions etc about "our local club" maybe that was just the initial enthusiasm of wanting to make a difference and get it right. The internal system has now worn him down ?

Ref Joao as am example - its an injury prone expensive bet - an experienced mgmt team/DOF should have said no. At the time Bowen was in post as DOF but inexperienced.......

I think this is what Sam Baldock was alluding to

More I think about - I am not convinced the owners are right for the club. Not convinced we should get any more signings this summer - and see what an average /learning manager can do with a the guys still here - without interference.

Get rid of as much as possible, no new contract offers - no incomers and see what happens

[Simmops]

The issue is simple, and I think clear as day

Agents slime their way direct to the owners - give them some sales patter show a few vids and bingo we have another random signing Tiimbe Aruna Boye etc. Cash flows all over the place (laundered ?) written off for tax etc outrageous fees wages bungs and back pockets

Whoever is the manger gets given "another player" to try fit into the squad. Plans to promote Academy lads get smashed, pathways blocked etc.

Experienced strong managers would have none of this - and sensibly would walk away. Keen / inexperienced managers are prepared to give it a go

Had great hopes when Nigel came back to gain some control but I suspect he is just given orders and told to follow. He seems to have gone quiet after his initial burst back on the scene - some great statements PR and actions etc about "our local club" maybe that was just the initial enthusiasm of wanting to make a difference and get it right. The internal system has now worn him down ?

Ref Joao as am example - its an injury prone expensive bet - an experienced mgmt team/DOF should have said no. At the time Bowen was in post as DOF but inexperienced.......

I think this is what Sam Baldock was alluding to

More I think about - I am not convinced the owners are right for the club. Not convinced we should get any more signings this summer - and see what an average /learning manager can do with a the guys still here - without interference.

Get rid of as much as possible, no new contract offers - no incomers and see what happens

Laundered cash?

Are you oxf*rd drunk?!

You do know that you haven't got a clue how players are signed right... It isn't that agents go up to mark bowen and ask him to sign their player and give him a couple quid

There is a whole scouting network worldwide and shortlist of players that we want

[Zammo]

Baldock's interview on BBCRB was an eye-opener - especially about "Mr Nice Guy" Gomes...

In summary:

Manager is not under pressure to pick team

What does that mean ?

Told who to pick (any more was the subtext)

Would suggest Jose was told who to play

Not having that. He was the Director of Football. Surely he would have known beforehand if that was really the case.

[Snowflake Royal]

To be fair I've said a few times I wouldn't mind getting rid of most the senior players and going for a mostly Academy XI

.....................Southwood
Yiadom, Morrison, McIntyre, Richards
..................Rinomhota, East
Meite, ...........Holsgrove, ............Olise
............................Joao

How much cheaper is that XI? Yeah, decent chance of a relegation but how much less painful would it be with those hundreds of thousands a week less on wages.

And actually, it's not throwing many people in at the deep end. Retains some experience. It shows just how close we are to a decent side at an affordable price. You don't need to make many changes for a really solidly competitive looking side.

[Simmops]

To be fair I've said a few times I wouldn't mind getting rid of most the senior players and going for a mostly Academy XI

.....................Southwood
Yiadom, Morrison, McIntyre, Richards
..................Rinomhota, East
Meite, ...........Holsgrove, ............Olise
............................Joao

How much cheaper is that XI? Yeah, decent chance of a relegation but how much less painful would it be with those hundreds of thousands a week less on wages.

And actually, it's not throwing many people in at the deep end. Retains some experience. It shows just how close we are to a decent side at an affordable price. You don't need to make many changes for a really solidly competitive looking side.

And when we go down and the senior players oxf*rd off, would that lot really be good enough to get out of League 1?

[Snowflake Royal]

To be fair I've said a few times I wouldn't mind getting rid of most the senior players and going for a mostly Academy XI

.....................Southwood
Yiadom, Morrison, McIntyre, Richards
..................Rinomhota, East
Meite, ...........Holsgrove, ............Olise
............................Joao

How much cheaper is that XI? Yeah, decent chance of a relegation but how much less painful would it be with those hundreds of thousands a week less on wages.

And actually, it's not throwing many people in at the deep end. Retains some experience. It shows just how close we are to a decent side at an affordable price. You don't need to make many changes for a really solidly competitive looking side.

And when we go down and the senior players oxf*rd off, would that lot really be good enough to get out of League 1?

With some additions and another crop coming through? Maybe. It'd certainly be a decent base we could build on and have the money to do it as a result.

At least we wouldn't be worried about going out of business entirely and watching losers make millions off failing for us.