CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

[Sebastian the Red]

Once upon a time I would probablyhave got all wound up,

Yeah, I remember what it was like to be 15 as well. I always get sad when I see grown men lose their minds at football matches.

Sad? Grow up man. How old are you, 15?

The older I get, Lux, the more I weep for the failings of my fellow man. They know not what they do.

I wonder how they’d cope if it was an actually interesting and important tournament, like the Six Nations.

[Forbury Lion]

I would be disappointed with Bowen if he accepted this. If he really wants to be a manager he should refuse the Dai's offer and find a job elsewhere to be a football manager.

He's done just that.

[Nameless]

Yeah, I remember what it was like to be 15 as well. I always get sad when I see grown men lose their minds at football matches.

Sad? Grow up man. How old are you, 15?

The older I get, Lux, the more I weep for the failings of my fellow man. They know not what they do.

I wonder how they’d cope if it was an actually interesting and important tournament, like the Six Nations.

Got the Eight Nations to look forward to this autumn !

[Stranded]

I used to be called an RTG on here but losing Bowen could easily set us on a slide to L1 or worse. With Howe also effectively gone it looks like we will be run by agents going forwards. I genuinely hope I am proved wrong but I expect a very tough season ahead and with no one left at the club to exert common sense we could easily fall foul of FFP.

Oh for the days of SJM and stability.

The turnaround in view on Bowen by a lot of people, not necessarily you andrew as I don't recall your view at the time, is quite something.

I do however recall people stating that he was only employed because he was a yes man and that he wasn't worthy of the job - he did well, no doubts but still people were banging on during the times where he was doing really well, that he wasn't the man to move us forward, to build a promtion side at best he could probably stabilise for a year or two and then be moved on and we could get a manager in who could get us over the line. It would appear that the owners reached the same view and decided that 2 years was too long to wait, so replaced him now with someone who they feel is more capable to get us promoted - whether they will be proved correct is another matter entirely.

Losing Bowen completely does not naturally hasten a drop to L1 - it is potentially a blow but again he was brought into the club by the very same owners, maybe the owners found him to be a better fit in the Sporting Director role than the manager role - I just don't know but don't see the point in shifting positions in narrative to suit my view.

Bowen was not a snake when he took over, he did well, losing him could be a blow but is not the end of the world. The timing isn't great to shift but, if you choose to believe the owners, they said this was a process that took a few weeks, so I would imagine the end of the season may have put paid to Bowen's chances - those last 3 games were fcuking horrible to watch, and I got bored of all the posts about how bad our home form under him was - so it may appear that Paunovic impressed them enough over any number of other managers hence giving him the gig. With only a 6 week turnaround in seasons, no time was ever going to be perfect to make a change.

None of us on here know anything - good luck to Bowen, am sure he will get a job somewhere else and he will love it if he beats us in the future no doubt but we have to focus on the next season. We only play 4 games with the window open, so plenty time to reshape the squad before that closes too.

As others have said, just enjoy the ride - in 5 years time we may either be celebrating qualifying for Europe on trying to figure out the best way to get over to Jersey for our league game against the Bulls - either way, going to be an interesting time.

[Old Man Andrews]

I haven't seen a great deal of anger exclusively about the managerial change but I have seen plenty of anger regarding the timing and the way it has been communicated by the owners and clubs press team.

The easy way out for the owners would be for them to sanction a written statement in their name explaining their way of thinking and at the same time showing respect to Mark Bowen in the public domain. They obviously do not need to explain the full in's and out's or anything financial but just explain why the decision has been made and what they are hoping to achieve by doing it. If they had publically showed support for Mark Bowen I think there is every chance he would have moved back into the sporting director role. The way the club has handled this whole episode is nothing short of amatuer and nobody has come out of it with any credit.

[Nameless]

I haven't seen a great deal of anger exclusively about the managerial change but I have seen plenty of anger regarding the timing and the way it has been communicated by the owners and clubs press team.

The easy way out for the owners would be for them to sanction a written statement in their name explaining their way of thinking and at the same time showing respect to Mark Bowen in the public domain. They obviously do not need to explain the full in's and out's or anything financial but just explain why the decision has been made and what they are hoping to achieve by doing it. If they had publically showed support for Mark Bowen I think there is every chance he would have moved back into the sporting director role. The way the club has handled this whole episode is nothing short of amatuer and nobody has come out of it with any credit.

Pretty sensible that.

[Elm Park Kid]

It's strange though: The owners might not really understand how 'things are done' but surely there's a PR and comms team that is experienced in English football and should have immediately picked up that they hadn't said anything about Bowen in the statement. It wouldn't have taken much effort to either add in a few sentences or send out a tweet earlier in the day announcing that he had left his post.

[Millsy]

I used to be called an RTG on here but losing Bowen could easily set us on a slide to L1 or worse. With Howe also effectively gone it looks like we will be run by agents going forwards. I genuinely hope I am proved wrong but I expect a very tough season ahead and with no one left at the club to exert common sense we could easily fall foul of FFP.

Oh for the days of SJM and stability.

The turnaround in view on Bowen by a lot of people, not necessarily you andrew as I don't recall your view at the time, is quite something.

I do however recall people stating that he was only employed because he was a yes man and that he wasn't worthy of the job - he did well, no doubts but still people were banging on during the times where he was doing really well, that he wasn't the man to move us forward, to build a promtion side at best he could probably stabilise for a year or two and then be moved on and we could get a manager in who could get us over the line. It would appear that the owners reached the same view and decided that 2 years was too long to wait, so replaced him now with someone who they feel is more capable to get us promoted - whether they will be proved correct is another matter entirely.

Losing Bowen completely does not naturally hasten a drop to L1 - it is potentially a blow but again he was brought into the club by the very same owners, maybe the owners found him to be a better fit in the Sporting Director role than the manager role - I just don't know but don't see the point in shifting positions in narrative to suit my view.

Bowen was not a snake when he took over, he did well, losing him could be a blow but is not the end of the world. The timing isn't great to shift but, if you choose to believe the owners, they said this was a process that took a few weeks, so I would imagine the end of the season may have put paid to Bowen's chances - those last 3 games were fcuking horrible to watch, and I got bored of all the posts about how bad our home form under him was - so it may appear that Paunovic impressed them enough over any number of other managers hence giving him the gig. With only a 6 week turnaround in seasons, no time was ever going to be perfect to make a change.

None of us on here know anything - good luck to Bowen, am sure he will get a job somewhere else and he will love it if he beats us in the future no doubt but we have to focus on the next season. We only play 4 games with the window open, so plenty time to reshape the squad before that closes too.

As others have said, just enjoy the ride - in 5 years time we may either be celebrating qualifying for Europe on trying to figure out the best way to get over to Jersey for our league game against the Bulls - either way, going to be an interesting time.

Fair post.

Sad to see Bowen go but yeah it was an uninspiring appointment at best and performances seemed to falter. Not much of a surprise.

You hit the nail on the head saying none of us knows anything. Exactly what I've been saying (so it must be a good point! ) We're just random internet nerds spouting our crap opinions. We have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Ok so I was proven bang wrong probably about my theory that Bowen always knowing he'd be given a short chance before moving back to DOF, but again we just don't know. Owners obviously wanted a "proper manager" but tried Bowen for whatever reason. He did well enough but not amazing, and now they feel is the time to try what they regard as a proper manager (not a lot to boast about but he does have some good on his managerial CV at least).

We know nothing, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride. If Paunovic turns out to be the next Jokanovic, then we'll all forget this whole episode, put it down to COVID uncertainty and hail our owners as shrewd brave people acting mroe quickly than previous owners. If he turns out to be another Gomes we'll all say "I told you so", but rest assured knowing their track record these owners will not sit there and endure a crap manager at the helm - they will act quickly and bring someone else in. And yes, more fans will moan. It's what we do best.

[Millsy]

I haven't seen a great deal of anger exclusively about the managerial change but I have seen plenty of anger regarding the timing and the way it has been communicated by the owners and clubs press team.

The easy way out for the owners would be for them to sanction a written statement in their name explaining their way of thinking and at the same time showing respect to Mark Bowen in the public domain. They obviously do not need to explain the full in's and out's or anything financial but just explain why the decision has been made and what they are hoping to achieve by doing it. If they had publically showed support for Mark Bowen I think there is every chance he would have moved back into the sporting director role. The way the club has handled this whole episode is nothing short of amatuer and nobody has come out of it with any credit.

Pretty sensible that.

Which is why it's unlikely to happen.

Alarm bells have surely got to be ringing for the owners when OMA is considered relatively sensible!

(OMA - just kidding mate, you know we get on ok, just banter! )

[Linden Jones' Tash]

I used to be called an RTG on here but losing Bowen could easily set us on a slide to L1 or worse. With Howe also effectively gone it looks like we will be run by agents going forwards. I genuinely hope I am proved wrong but I expect a very tough season ahead and with no one left at the club to exert common sense we could easily fall foul of FFP.

Oh for the days of SJM and stability.

The turnaround in view on Bowen by a lot of people, not necessarily you andrew as I don't recall your view at the time, is quite something.

I do however recall people stating that he was only employed because he was a yes man and that he wasn't worthy of the job - he did well, no doubts but still people were banging on during the times where he was doing really well, that he wasn't the man to move us forward, to build a promtion side at best he could probably stabilise for a year or two and then be moved on and we could get a manager in who could get us over the line. It would appear that the owners reached the same view and decided that 2 years was too long to wait, so replaced him now with someone who they feel is more capable to get us promoted - whether they will be proved correct is another matter entirely.

Losing Bowen completely does not naturally hasten a drop to L1 - it is potentially a blow but again he was brought into the club by the very same owners, maybe the owners found him to be a better fit in the Sporting Director role than the manager role - I just don't know but don't see the point in shifting positions in narrative to suit my view.

Bowen was not a snake when he took over, he did well, losing him could be a blow but is not the end of the world. The timing isn't great to shift but, if you choose to believe the owners, they said this was a process that took a few weeks, so I would imagine the end of the season may have put paid to Bowen's chances - those last 3 games were fcuking horrible to watch, and I got bored of all the posts about how bad our home form under him was - so it may appear that Paunovic impressed them enough over any number of other managers hence giving him the gig. With only a 6 week turnaround in seasons, no time was ever going to be perfect to make a change.

None of us on here know anything - good luck to Bowen, am sure he will get a job somewhere else and he will love it if he beats us in the future no doubt but we have to focus on the next season. We only play 4 games with the window open, so plenty time to reshape the squad before that closes too.

As others have said, just enjoy the ride - in 5 years time we may either be celebrating qualifying for Europe on trying to figure out the best way to get over to Jersey for our league game against the Bulls - either way, going to be an interesting time.

Fair post.

Sad to see Bowen go but yeah it was an uninspiring appointment at best and performances seemed to falter. Not much of a surprise.

You hit the nail on the head saying none of us knows anything. Exactly what I've been saying (so it must be a good point! ) We're just random internet nerds spouting our crap opinions. We have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Ok so I was proven bang wrong probably about my theory that Bowen always knowing he'd be given a short chance before moving back to DOF, but again we just don't know. Owners obviously wanted a "proper manager" but tried Bowen for whatever reason. He did well enough but not amazing, and now they feel is the time to try what they regard as a proper manager (not a lot to boast about but he does have some good on his managerial CV at least).

We know nothing, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride. If Paunovic turns out to be the next Jokanovic, then we'll all forget this whole episode, put it down to COVID uncertainty and hail our owners as shrewd brave people acting mroe quickly than previous owners. If he turns out to be another Gomes we'll all say "I told you so", but rest assured knowing their track record these owners will not sit there and endure a crap manager at the helm - they will act quickly and bring someone else in. And yes, more fans will moan. It's what we do best.

good post - I'm actually a bit surprised at the number of people who would prefer a few seasons of mid table mediocrity.
my view has always been that these owners only want promotion - hanging around in the championship is a money pit and although they don't appear to have major concerns in terms of wealth - rich people stay rich by not losing money.
if this works, then enjoy the ride
if it doesn't, then who knows what comes next

[Millsy]

It's strange though: The owners might not really understand how 'things are done' but surely there's a PR and comms team that is experienced in English football and should have immediately picked up that they hadn't said anything about Bowen in the statement. It wouldn't have taken much effort to either add in a few sentences or send out a tweet earlier in the day announcing that he had left his post.

I supported a Chinese kickstarter and while I think they did a great job most people hate them, and the issue is always around lack of communication. It's like they don't care. It doesn't make sense. It'd be so easy to fix.

It's like when you buy almost anything Chinese and the instructions seem like they were created by a random word generator. Again, almost zero effort to bother communicating effectively.

At least they're better than us - we just expect everyone to speak English.

[skipper]

First I've seen any mention of that anywhere. Seems strange seeing as we could sign Laurent without a problem. And it went ahead pretty much as soon as Howe and Bowen were out the way with little change in financial situation. Or are we saying a shirt sponsor paid for it.

Mate, I just searched the phrase on this board and found you talking about our soft embargo in the Sheff Wed match thread.

Why would you even bother lying when it is so easily checked?

That's from July 2019 you idiot. It's about last summer not this summer.

You think nothing has changed, bar an international pandemic, lack of income etc, and we wouldn't still be under an embargo? Like, everyone is worse off, they haven't just said, "crack on lads, spend at will". No one has any money anyway, and neither do we!

[Nameless]

Mate, I just searched the phrase on this board and found you talking about our soft embargo in the Sheff Wed match thread.

Why would you even bother lying when it is so easily checked?

That's from July 2019 you idiot. It's about last summer not this summer.

You think nothing has changed, bar an international pandemic, lack of income etc, and we wouldn't still be under an embargo? Like, everyone is worse off, they haven't just said, "crack on lads, spend at will". No one has any money anyway, and neither do we!

We clearly we not under the embargo by the time we splashed on several fairly pricy players at the start of last season.....
But there have been enough clues to suggest we at least are having to ensure the EFL are ok with our dealings in this window.
I’m not sure a ‘soft embargo’ is a formally defined thing, may be a matter of debate as to whether a club is under one or not but I’m of the opinion we’re working closely with the league to ensure we’re staying onside (or at least within VAR tolerances)

[Silver Fox]

This has all worked out pretty well for Bowen. Last week he was a manager with a bang average record who only got the job in the fiirst place because he sacked his predecessor and hired himself and now it seems we've lost the reincarnation of Bill Shankly. Don't cry for him too much, if prospective employers read the stuff written on here he'll be snapped up within days

[Nameless]

It's strange though: The owners might not really understand how 'things are done' but surely there's a PR and comms team that is experienced in English football and should have immediately picked up that they hadn't said anything about Bowen in the statement. It wouldn't have taken much effort to either add in a few sentences or send out a tweet earlier in the day announcing that he had left his post.

Doubt the owners actually typed the statement themselves
I used to know a lot of the back office people at the club but am well out of touch these days. No idea who the modern day Andy West / Craig Mortimer is.

[Elm Park Kid]

Do people not agree though that the issue is not just in this decision, but that it's part of a long chain of confusing decisions taken since McDermott #2 was fired. Sure, Stam worked out well for the first season, but it went so badly the next season that you are left asking whether it was a fluke. It might have even been (say it quietly) a knock-on effect of 6 months management by someone who actually had significant championship experience.

I find it confusing that people seek to judge a manager on their immediate results, given how much evidence there is that footballing success comes from years of hard work to establish a decent team. Sure, things can turn around quickly if you already have a decent set up and it's just a particularly manager not working out (Rodgers). But it's really, really hard to argue that Reading have an good set up which is just not being used properly. We've had multiple years now of poor results and poor performances . . . . you can only come to the conclusion that we have a poor squad for the championship.

Logically a new manager isn't going to change things overnight - even if we lured Ferguson out of retirement, hired Klopp as his number 2 and spent £100m between now and 19 Sep, I doubt very much the club would have a successful season. History tells us that it takes times to build success in this league.

So, what you're left with is the argument that Bowen was the wrong guy and it's better to start off our building now with someone better. It's hard to argue that Bowen was the right guy given that he had no prior experience of managing at this level. But then neither did Gomes, or Paunovic. It shouldn't be a radical thing to say that hiring people who do not have experience at managing at a top level in the best leagues will always be a gamble. You have to ask whether it's a necessary gamble? Are we as a club not able to hire ex-Championship, or even Premier League managers?

And then we will have fans (and apparently owners) who will want to make judgements within 3 months and pull the trigger after 6 if we're struggling. It just seems like we are trapped in this endless cycle of false hope and disappointment. Fans complaining about the 'wrong type of football' without any acceptance that you can't flip a switch that magically turns a club into an attacking force. That it takes months, if not years of hard work on the pitch and numerous attempts to find the right players that can play the style you want.

Maybe i'll be wrong and the new guy is going to turn things around overnight. In which case I will happily eat humble pie. But I think it's much more likely that he's fired by February . . . . . . . ..

[Zammo]

This has all worked out pretty well for Bowen. Last week he was a manager with a bang average record who only got the job in the fiirst place because he sacked his predecessor and hired himself and now it seems we've lost the reincarnation of Bill Shankly. Don't cry for him too much, if prospective employers read the stuff written on here he'll be snapped up within days

+1

99.9% of the fan base labelled him a snake this time last year. A couple of decent wins on the road aside, we were unbelievably sh!te at home under him last season. No tears from me.

[Lower West]

I find it confusing that people seek to judge a manager on their immediate results, given how much evidence there is that footballing success comes from years of hard work to establish a decent team.

We live in a world of instant gratification. Look back at the successful managers of the past. All were given one thing. Time to impose themselves.

[Millsy]

A STORY THAT MAY BE RELEVANT:

My business partners thought it would be a great idea to hire a lady without even reading her CV.

I was the only one in the interview panel to read, let alone scrutinise, the CV and uncovered some major discrepancies in dates and basically found out that she was lying about her qualifications, which she admitted.

As far as I was concerned there's no way we were hiring her and not only that but she needed reporting to professional bodies.

My business partners had different ideas though. Against my protestations they insisted we hire her.

We hired her. She was bloody awful. We sacked her within 3 days.

I was pissed off with my business partners and had a chat with them, asking that next time they f**king listen to me. Their retort was that they do things in a different way to me and have no issues taking a "punt" on someone (even if they're lying) because they can easily just sack them. They then had a go at me for being too loyal to employees and were showing off that their model is the best i.e. just hire and fire with quick turnover, no due diligence in choosign the right person, and no guilt/issues with just sacking people. No remorse, no admission of being wrong, if anything they laughed at my approach.

At the risk of sounding like the resident white supremacist tossers who are inexplicably still allowed to remain on this board it may be relevant that while these guys aren't Chinese, they are foreign. I wonder if there is something cultural here about us Brits who find this sort of thing odd, but to the rest of the world this easy come easy go may be the norm. I just don't know.

I don't think there's a right or wrong, just different ways of doing things.

The point is we might think the owners are irresponsible but perhaps that's just the way things roll. We used to moan at how long it would take to get rid of a manager, and there'd usually be a lengthy process of trying to find someone appropriate. Now we're effectively moaning things chop and change too quickly.

[Sanguine]

The difference between Stam's first and second seasons I found astonishing. I don't feel there was 'fluke' about our promotion push - we were in the playoffs places from November time through to May iirc. It just all went very wrong in season two, mainly the defensive solidity at home disappearing.