Pauno out

[morganb]

Talking of Pauno... What exactly does he do?

As in, on a match day it isn't just him in the technical area but him plus 4 or 5 others - O'Shea, Fortune, Gomes, Marko Mitrovic.

So what do they all do? Where should any "blame" leave Pauno and be allocated to one of them instead? Is it a case of too many cooks? Do any other teams have a similar size entourage in the dugout?

On a day-to-day basis we also have a goalkeeping coach and Eddie Niedzwiecki in the background. Anyone else?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-read ... erein/1032

I wonder what methodologies and experience they all bring.

Also there is now a committee (made up of chief executive Dayong Pang, finance director Bryan Stabler, academy boss Michael Gilkes and manager Veljko Paunovic) that has replaced the DoF role - do we think this is a good or bad idea?

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/foot ... r-20390924

[Snowball]

Ha yes, not enough people mention that do they? We sacked Brendan Rogers after six months. I'll say that again, we sacked Brendan Rogers after six months.

Yeah, and he's done nothing since

[URZZZZ]

I'm not sure we've played that badly recently tbh. A lot has been in context of what we needed, to an extent a few issues have cost us dropped points, mainly due to a lack of form of the front 4 imo (and we know they are all capable of so much more)

We played ok against Cardiff and Luton, not easy games and didnt lose either. Were the better side probably against Barnsley away, which is tough as they come atm. Played well against Watford at times, again very tough game. Beat Derby comfortably enough. Got a half decent point against Forest, played fairly well against a form side at the time in QPR.

The Brum game is the only one we've really stunk the place out - the others weren't especially different to our early season form, just missing chances instead of scoring them.

Obviously we needed more than we got against those teams, but not one of them really outplayed us or anything like that.

I agree. That's what really enthuses me about what Paunovic has done. Broadly speaking, we've played good football this season. The result at Watford glosses over what was a very good away performance. As you say, Derby we put aside easily, QPR another good performance.

Context for me is that we are merely Lucas Joao's three missed penalties from being right in the play-off mix (we'd be four points better off) with three games to go.

As I said above, if we're expecting as a minimum that a Reading manager maintains a promotion push with no money to spend and facing losing players each summer then we're done as a football club. Of course we want to see promotion, but frankly any manager that is comfortably keeping us in this division should also keep their job, imho.

It's fairly obvious though isn't it - and has already been alluded to. I'm not sure anyone believed the aim for the squad this year was promotion given the last few years have been mediocre at best. But given that we achieved 22 points from the first 8 games (at this point already 15 points ahead of Barnsley) - it's ultimately been a rather disappointing end. Ambitions aren't fixed - they change with the flow of the season, and to only pick up 46 points from the last 35 games isn't good enough, however you want to sugar-coat it

As someone said, if our wins were evenly distributed, then everyone (or most people anyway) would be saying what a great season it's been. But it hasn't. In short - Paunovic has made a rod for his own back by starting so well. Similar situation with Gomes (and Puscas tbf) with that "week" in August 2019

[Jagermesiter1871]

Yeh oxf*rd it. Fire him. Fire them all. Why not hey?

[Stranded]

I'm not sure we've played that badly recently tbh. A lot has been in context of what we needed, to an extent a few issues have cost us dropped points, mainly due to a lack of form of the front 4 imo (and we know they are all capable of so much more)

We played ok against Cardiff and Luton, not easy games and didnt lose either. Were the better side probably against Barnsley away, which is tough as they come atm. Played well against Watford at times, again very tough game. Beat Derby comfortably enough. Got a half decent point against Forest, played fairly well against a form side at the time in QPR.

The Brum game is the only one we've really stunk the place out - the others weren't especially different to our early season form, just missing chances instead of scoring them.

Obviously we needed more than we got against those teams, but not one of them really outplayed us or anything like that.

That's the thing, whilst it is disappointing that baring a minor miracle we are done with regards to the play-offs - it really is small margins.

We are going to drop out because of a massive run of defeats, we've just really failed to turn draws into wins.

As the majority view is the Wycombe defeat was a massive turning point, that is 12 games back - our record including that is:

W4 D5 L3

Now 3 defeats, one of which was that Wycombe game and another at Watford where, well nearly everyone loses - is actuall pretty decent.

What has hurt is not taking chances to win at Forest, Barnsley, v QPR and then the last 2 where we probably should have done better. Turn just 2 of those 5 draws to wins, and we are on 72 and still in the hunt, 3 and we are 6th.

So yeah, we have been competitive in all bar a couple of poor performances and should have taken more points in most - small margins.

I don’t entirely agree. We were desperately hanging on v QPR. Against Derby we were very poor in the first half until Olise’s wonder strike. That’s been our only win in the last eight. Joao obviously should have scored v Barnsley but they had some very good chances too. Against Luton and Cardiff the opposition were good value for the draws. I can’t remember the Forest game. Against Watford we played really well for twenty minutes after they scored but that was about it as we offered nothing in the second half.
Eight points from eight games is a poor return.

As it happens defensively we have been solid but it’s going forward where we have been very disappointing. That’s been the issue. We simply haven’t created or scored enough in this run of games.

I'm not saying we were great, we were competitive in the vast majority of games even if playing badly (sign of a decent team if you aren't playing well but don't lose?).

Point is we had chances in those drawn games to change the result - not just Joao's miss v Barnsley but if Meite had tucked away his early chance then that's a different game. Forest we should have been out of sight by half time and even with gifting them a goal, we should have won. Yes Cardiff and Luton deserved points but we had opportunity - a better pass from Ejaria to Puscas probably sees us 1 up. Cardiff was one way traffic in the 2nd half though but we didn't do enough to create a decent chance.

All of these games were decided on small margins - the result was not always what we wanted but the fact is, we are tough to beat now but we don't always quite have the nous to convert being on the front foot into goals/wins. That is the next step and I think VP deserves the chance to try and move us to that level.

Shouting manager out is a pretty easy position to take as eventually, whoever shouts it will be right.

[Zip]

That's the thing, whilst it is disappointing that baring a minor miracle we are done with regards to the play-offs - it really is small margins.

We are going to drop out because of a massive run of defeats, we've just really failed to turn draws into wins.

As the majority view is the Wycombe defeat was a massive turning point, that is 12 games back - our record including that is:

W4 D5 L3

Now 3 defeats, one of which was that Wycombe game and another at Watford where, well nearly everyone loses - is actuall pretty decent.

What has hurt is not taking chances to win at Forest, Barnsley, v QPR and then the last 2 where we probably should have done better. Turn just 2 of those 5 draws to wins, and we are on 72 and still in the hunt, 3 and we are 6th.

So yeah, we have been competitive in all bar a couple of poor performances and should have taken more points in most - small margins.

I don’t entirely agree. We were desperately hanging on v QPR. Against Derby we were very poor in the first half until Olise’s wonder strike. That’s been our only win in the last eight. Joao obviously should have scored v Barnsley but they had some very good chances too. Against Luton and Cardiff the opposition were good value for the draws. I can’t remember the Forest game. Against Watford we played really well for twenty minutes after they scored but that was about it as we offered nothing in the second half.
Eight points from eight games is a poor return.

As it happens defensively we have been solid but it’s going forward where we have been very disappointing. That’s been the issue. We simply haven’t created or scored enough in this run of games.

I'm not saying we were great, we were competitive in the vast majority of games even if playing badly (sign of a decent team if you aren't playing well but don't lose?).

Point is we had chances in those drawn games to change the result - not just Joao's miss v Barnsley but if Meite had tucked away his early chance then that's a different game. Forest we should have been out of sight by half time and even with gifting them a goal, we should have won. Yes Cardiff and Luton deserved points but we had opportunity - a better pass from Ejaria to Puscas probably sees us 1 up. Cardiff was one way traffic in the 2nd half though but we didn't do enough to create a decent chance.

All of these games were decided on small margins - the result was not always what we wanted but the fact is, we are tough to beat now but we don't always quite have the nous to convert being on the front foot into goals/wins. That is the next step and I think VP deserves the chance to try and move us to that level.

Shouting manager out is a pretty easy position to take as eventually, whoever shouts it will be right.

It’s really odd. I just cannot recall the Forest game at all. It’s only a few weeks ago but for the life of me I can’t recollect anything about it.

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm not sure we've played that badly recently tbh. A lot has been in context of what we needed, to an extent a few issues have cost us dropped points, mainly due to a lack of form of the front 4 imo (and we know they are all capable of so much more)

We played ok against Cardiff and Luton, not easy games and didnt lose either. Were the better side probably against Barnsley away, which is tough as they come atm. Played well against Watford at times, again very tough game. Beat Derby comfortably enough. Got a half decent point against Forest, played fairly well against a form side at the time in QPR.

The Brum game is the only one we've really stunk the place out - the others weren't especially different to our early season form, just missing chances instead of scoring them.

Obviously we needed more than we got against those teams, but not one of them really outplayed us or anything like that.

This. Fine margins

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Season has been amazing, good, average and poor at different times.

Overall, however one dissects the season, I don’t see enough reason to sack Pauno. Sure he has much to learn and areas to improve but give him another season.

I know every team can point to what ifs but it’s true, Joao missed pens,, Joao going off the boil, injuries etc, very fine line between us finishing seventh and finishing in the top six

[Brogue]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

[Hendo]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

[Snowflake Royal]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

Are you kidding, they'll be left in for better ridiculing of the current guy.

[Hendo]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

Are you kidding, they'll be left in for better ridiculing of the current guy.

That was pretty much my point, tbh. Although I can understand how that doesn't come across well in text.

[leon]

Talking of Pauno... What exactly does he do?

As in, on a match day it isn't just him in the technical area but him plus 4 or 5 others - O'Shea, Fortune, Gomes, Marko Mitrovic.

So what do they all do? Where should any "blame" leave Pauno and be allocated to one of them instead? Is it a case of too many cooks? Do any other teams have a similar size entourage in the dugout?

On a day-to-day basis we also have a goalkeeping coach and Eddie Niedzwiecki in the background. Anyone else?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-read ... erein/1032

I wonder what methodologies and experience they all bring.

Also there is now a committee (made up of chief executive Dayong Pang, finance director Bryan Stabler, academy boss Michael Gilkes and manager Veljko Paunovic) that has replaced the DoF role - do we think this is a good or bad idea?

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/foot ... r-20390924

I do wonder if any of his assistants say "FFS Pauno. We need to make a sub"

[Brogue]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

i can tell you now, Dai Yongge wont give a flying fuck about those first 8 games...

[Hendo]

46 points from the last 35 games which could quite conceivably be 46 points from 38 games come the end of the season. That is why questions should be asked about his future. That is just shy of relegation form for 3/4 of the season. I don't get why people are so blind to this. that's running at 1.2ppg over 46 games that is 55 points.

jose gomes 38 games in charge 41 points sacked 0.92 ppg
Mark bowen 40 games in charge 54 points sacked 1.35 ppg
paul clement 30 games in charge 29 0.96 ppg

other than the freak first 8 games we have been running at the same rate as most of our previous three manager give a or take a few points here and there

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

i can tell you now, Dai Yongge wont give a flying fuck about those first 8 games...

Ok, but that is up to him then isn't it.

Are you Dai Yongge?

If not, then maybe you should be a little bit more rational in your thought than an owner who has binned off a bunch of managers in a short space of time and don't try and move goalposts to fit your agenda.

[Brogue]

Not moving the goal posts Gomes was given 38 games before he was sacked. By the end of season it will be 38 games since the run of 8 wins. Gomes took 41 points pauno 46

Bowen was given 40 games and has a better ppg average than pauno in them 40 games and Clement 30 games just shy of paunos ppg

I’m not dismissing the first 8 games at all I’m just going on his last 38 which is comparable to the length of time our previous 3 managers were judged on.

[Snowflake Royal]

Ok, but those 8 games did actually exist and while they may be "freak" should always be counted in any stats, especially when comparing the full tenure of other managers.

Also, if you're taking out the first 8 games as being "freak results" why not take out the next 4 as well that we lost? Arguably we played much better in those games, yet couldn't score/gave away stupid goals. These are as much freak results as the first 8, imo.

I wonder if in a couple of managers in the future, we'll be comparing win ratios to Pauno and those 8 games will still get removed or will that be forgotten/not seem as important?

Are you kidding, they'll be left in for better ridiculing of the current guy.

That was pretty much my point, tbh. Although I can understand how that doesn't come across well in text.

I was playing along, I know that's what you meant

[Hendo]

Are you kidding, they'll be left in for better ridiculing of the current guy.

That was pretty much my point, tbh. Although I can understand how that doesn't come across well in text.

I was playing along, I know that's what you meant

[Snowflake Royal]

I don't do subtle...

[Hound]

Not moving the goal posts Gomes was given 38 games before he was sacked. By the end of season it will be 38 games since the run of 8 wins. Gomes took 41 points pauno 46

Bowen was given 40 games and has a better ppg average than pauno in them 40 games and Clement 30 games just shy of paunos ppg

I’m not dismissing the first 8 games at all I’m just going on his last 38 which is comparable to the length of time our previous 3 managers were judged on.

So you’re not only selecting certain data to make a point, you’ve also decided we’ll lose our last 3 to drive home that point?