Relegation

[oldebiscuit]

This thread is a relegation thread that went awry, but let’s get it back on track. I’m pretty certain that the first season of 3 points for a win 1982/1983 saw us relegated to division 4 whereas the old 2 points for a win would have seen us survive.

[Zip]

This thread is a relegation thread that went awry, but let’s get it back on track. I’m pretty certain that the first season of 3 points for a win 1982/1983 saw us relegated to division 4 whereas the old 2 points for a win would have seen us survive.

You may be right. We only lost 17 games that season but drew 17 and won 12. So unlucky to go down with 53 points anyway which would have been 41 points in old currency.

[Snowflake Royal]

League rules changes do seem to have a tendency to screw us over.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

This thread is a relegation thread that went awry, but let’s get it back on track. I’m pretty certain that the first season of 3 points for a win 1982/1983 saw us relegated to division 4 whereas the old 2 points for a win would have seen us survive.

You may be right. We only lost 17 games that season but drew 17 and won 12. So unlucky to go down with 53 points anyway which would have been 41 points in old currency.

I think three points came in the previous season.

Yes we were unlucky to go down on 53 points, but without Kerry Dixon we would have been down at Christmas the side was that bad. Dixon won golden boot that season,. must be a record in a relegated side and missed a quarter of the season too.

4 go down from third tier remember so often 50+ points needed to stay up...

[Royal_jimmy]

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/foot ... s-21143261

Have to say I'm pretty concerned by this if we can't even sign free agents on probably low(ish) wages.

We really need to hope our academy lads are up to it. Think if they were good enough we'd have played more of them last season.

[Elm Park Kid]

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ex-west-brom-winger-confirms-21143261

Have to say I'm pretty concerned by this if we can't even sign free agents on probably low(ish) wages.

We really need to hope our academy lads are up to it. Think if they were good enough we'd have played more of them last season.

I made a post about this in the rumours section. Which tbf, rumours are mainly what we're going on concerning how the EFL are treating us right now.

I'm on the pessimistic side of things that our FFP situation is so bad that the EFL are playing hardball and placing very tight restrictions on us. And, if the books are as bad as we think they are, I honestly don't blame them.

[linkenholtroyal]

We may end up playing a whole team of graduates at some point this season with injuries.
Southwood
Holmes
Bristow
Dorsett
Mcintyre
Tetek
Rinhomota
Sackey
Azeez
Melvin Lambert
Ehibhatiomhan

When was the last time a team did that not sure how well they would do. might get Ehibhatiomhan on my shirt atleast he might be here come the start of the season. (Probably will get Mcintyre)

[Snowflake Royal]

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ex-west-brom-winger-confirms-21143261

Have to say I'm pretty concerned by this if we can't even sign free agents on probably low(ish) wages.

We really need to hope our academy lads are up to it. Think if they were good enough we'd have played more of them last season.

I made a post about this in the rumours section. Which tbf, rumours are mainly what we're going on concerning how the EFL are treating us right now.

I'm on the pessimistic side of things that our FFP situation is so bad that the EFL are playing hardball and placing very tight restrictions on us. And, if the books are as bad as we think they are, I honestly don't blame them.

So, the last two years we know about we lost £40m+ each one. Don't actually understand how seeing as our income should be about £14m, and wages weren't more than about £34m, but hey ho.

Last season we're optimistically looking at another £30m.

That's £110m in the three years, we were allowed to lose under the recent rules £39m in that period.

Just to get us down to break even on a season we have to cut something like 60% of our wage bill. And even if we miraculously broke even this coming season, we'd still fail FFP next year as well thanks to the £40m, let alone this last year's loss too.

Basically, because of the continued financial mis management of the club for the best part of a decade, we're probably looking at another couple of years of transfer embargos, taking it to 5 or 6 in total. Just because we're heading so far up shit creek so fast we're currently only decelerating. We haven't even turned around to start trying yo paddle out yet.

[tidus_mi2]

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ex-west-brom-winger-confirms-21143261

Have to say I'm pretty concerned by this if we can't even sign free agents on probably low(ish) wages.

We really need to hope our academy lads are up to it. Think if they were good enough we'd have played more of them last season.

I made a post about this in the rumours section. Which tbf, rumours are mainly what we're going on concerning how the EFL are treating us right now.

I'm on the pessimistic side of things that our FFP situation is so bad that the EFL are playing hardball and placing very tight restrictions on us. And, if the books are as bad as we think they are, I honestly don't blame them.

So, the last two years we know about we lost £40m+ each one. Don't actually understand how seeing as our income should be about £14m, and wages weren't more than about £34m, but hey ho.

Last season we're optimistically looking at another £30m.

That's £110m in the three years, we were allowed to lose under the recent rules £39m in that period.

Just to get us down to break even on a season we have to cut something like 60% of our wage bill. And even if we miraculously broke even this coming season, we'd still fail FFP next year as well thanks to the £40m, let alone this last year's loss too.

Basically, because of the continued financial mis management of the club for the best part of a decade, we're probably looking at another couple of years of transfer embargos, taking it to 5 or 6 in total. Just because we're heading so far up shit creek so fast we're currently only decelerating. We haven't even turned around to start trying yo paddle out yet.

But do those figures include the stuff we're allowed to exclude from FFP like youth academy costs?

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Right - I get the numbers but apart from Swift & Moore who I understand are on big contracts and down to Gorley but at the same time we've sold the Mad Stad and the training ground in the last 3 years and off loaded the other big earners...those fixed asset sales must have made £50m??

How's it still £110m loss in 3 years? Gorley's been gone ages so to blame him for it all is simplistic.

I'm, not an accountant but something's badly amiss.....

[Lower West]

Right - I get the numbers but apart from Swift & Moore who I understand are on big contracts and down to Gorley but at the same time we've sold the Mad Stad and the training ground in the last 3 years and off loaded the other big earners...those fixed asset sales must have made £50m??

How's it still £110m loss in 3 years? Gorley's been gone ages so to blame him for it all is simplistic.

I'm, not an accountant but something's badly amiss.....

That's football for you. The balloon has well and truly burst. Disparity between the leagues is so wide that it's no longer competitive in any sense. Look at Swindon same boat as us. Sheer madness. There'll soon be a super league by default.

[Esteban]

We may end up playing a whole team of graduates at some point this season with injuries.
Southwood
Holmes
Bristow
Dorsett
Mcintyre
Tetek
Rinhomota
Sackey
Azeez
Melvin Lambert
Ehibhatiomhan

When was the last time a team did that not sure how well they would do. might get Ehibhatiomhan on my shirt atleast he might be here come the start of the season. (Probably will get Mcintyre)

Out of morbid curiosity, I hope we get to see that team start a few games. Might add some interest to an otherwise uninspiring season (currently - I am still hopeful that we'll pull off a miracle somehow, despite how utterly unlikely that is).

[Snowflake Royal]

Right - I get the numbers but apart from Swift & Moore who I understand are on big contracts and down to Gorley but at the same time we've sold the Mad Stad and the training ground in the last 3 years and off loaded the other big earners...those fixed asset sales must have made £50m??

How's it still £110m loss in 3 years? Gorley's been gone ages so to blame him for it all is simplistic.

I'm, not an accountant but something's badly amiss.....

Well we now have to pay rent on the Mad Stad, and all the money from the sale went to reducing one season's loss. The training ground was probably the year before that period, if not stadium as well.

In that time we've also been paying big wages to Aluko, Baldock, Gunter, McCleary and probably Cabral. Maybe Meite. Maybe Joao. Maybe Blackett, probably Obita. I forget when Bacuna left.

Champ income is about £15m. That means Champ clubs should have a first team wage budget in the region of £11m. Ours was last seen at ~£33m

We've paid out on about four manager's contracts in that time. We're almost certainly paying out substantial salaries to owners/directors/CEO.

There's the Academy and all the coaching staff on top of the first team.

We're an absolute basket case and it went on before and after Gourlay, he's just the most egregious example. It comes from the top and the owners are very much to blame.

[paddy20]

We may end up playing a whole team of graduates at some point this season with injuries.
Southwood
Holmes
Bristow
Dorsett
Mcintyre
Tetek
Rinhomota
Sackey
Azeez
Melvin Lambert
Ehibhatiomhan

When was the last time a team did that not sure how well they would do. might get Ehibhatiomhan on my shirt atleast he might be here come the start of the season. (Probably will get Mcintyre)

Out of morbid curiosity, I hope we get to see that team start a few games. Might add some interest to an otherwise uninspiring season (currently - I am still hopeful that we'll pull off a miracle somehow, despite how utterly unlikely that is).

Anyone who has watched the last two friendlies will have a good idea on how NOT ready are the young players. I don't think there was one player that looked anything near championship quality. This is a big worry for this season. Can only see a relegation fight on our hands

[NathStPaul]

We may end up playing a whole team of graduates at some point this season with injuries.
Southwood
Holmes
Bristow
Dorsett
Mcintyre
Tetek
Rinhomota
Sackey
Azeez
Melvin Lambert
Ehibhatiomhan

When was the last time a team did that not sure how well they would do. might get Ehibhatiomhan on my shirt atleast he might be here come the start of the season. (Probably will get Mcintyre)

Out of morbid curiosity, I hope we get to see that team start a few games. Might add some interest to an otherwise uninspiring season (currently - I am still hopeful that we'll pull off a miracle somehow, despite how utterly unlikely that is).

Anyone who has watched the last two friendlies will have a good idea on how NOT ready are the young players. I don't think there was one player that looked anything near championship quality. This is a big worry for this season. Can only see a relegation fight on our hands

Did Olise look ready when he first came in? Did Omar Richards look ready? Some young players just need a few games in order to adjust to Championship football, we just don't know yet. Evaluate it after a month of the season.

[Hound]

Right - I get the numbers but apart from Swift & Moore who I understand are on big contracts and down to Gorley but at the same time we've sold the Mad Stad and the training ground in the last 3 years and off loaded the other big earners...those fixed asset sales must have made £50m??

How's it still £110m loss in 3 years? Gorley's been gone ages so to blame him for it all is simplistic.

I'm, not an accountant but something's badly amiss.....

Well we now have to pay rent on the Mad Stad, and all the money from the sale went to reducing one season's loss. The training ground was probably the year before that period, if not stadium as well.

In that time we've also been paying big wages to Aluko, Baldock, Gunter, McCleary and probably Cabral. Maybe Meite. Maybe Joao. Maybe Blackett, probably Obita. I forget when Bacuna left.

Champ income is about £15m. That means Champ clubs should have a first team wage budget in the region of £11m. Ours was last seen at ~£33m

We've paid out on about four manager's contracts in that time. We're almost certainly paying out substantial salaries to owners/directors/CEO.

There's the Academy and all the coaching staff on top of the first team.

We're an absolute basket case and it went on before and after Gourlay, he's just the most egregious example. It comes from the top and the owners are very much to blame.

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.

We definitely screwed up big time financially, but I'm not sure we're a 'basket case' as such now - just hanging on to a few very high earners who will roll off over the next season or so.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Out of morbid curiosity, I hope we get to see that team start a few games. Might add some interest to an otherwise uninspiring season (currently - I am still hopeful that we'll pull off a miracle somehow, despite how utterly unlikely that is).

Anyone who has watched the last two friendlies will have a good idea on how NOT ready are the young players. I don't think there was one player that looked anything near championship quality. This is a big worry for this season. Can only see a relegation fight on our hands

Did Olise look ready when he first came in? Did Omar Richards look ready? Some young players just need a few games in order to adjust to Championship football, we just don't know yet. Evaluate it after a month of the season.

Obvs its not ideal but they are young and will learn at such a a rate it would almost be worth it for the player that will come at the end.
Would Rino / Olise / Holmes / Tmac be the players they are with out being thrown in the deep end.
The academy players that are not already upping their game with the thought of first team Champ football in a few weeks time - those are the ones that will struggle.
...........But we do still need a LB.

[Snowflake Royal]

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.
.

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

[Hound]

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.
.

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

[Elm Park Kid]

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.
.

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

It really hard for the average fan to comprehend just how little a Championship club like us should be spending to stay within FFP. Even if we spent our entire £15m income on just the wages for a 23 man squad, that would only be 12.5k each a week. The average salary for a Championship player (believe it or not) is reported to be £29k. Event Brentford, a club lauded as a role model for doing things the sensible way, spent over £16m on wages last season.

Now those figure are a product of the 'two tier' system of the Championship - where each season you will have maybe 8-10 clubs spending large amounts due to parachute payments or rich owners rolling the dice. An average salary of 12.5k would allow you to remain an established Championship club, and there's always the chance you'll get lucky with academy/cheap signings/manager appointments one season at be promotion contenders. But also remember even this scenario is one where you are spending 100% of your income on just first team player wages. So every year you would be running a good few million pound loss, probably within the £13m target, but still only sustainable if your owner's permit it.