Relegation

[Elm Park Kid]

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.
.

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

[Westwood52]

Out of morbid curiosity, I hope we get to see that team start a few games. Might add some interest to an otherwise uninspiring season (currently - I am still hopeful that we'll pull off a miracle somehow, despite how utterly unlikely that is).

Anyone who has watched the last two friendlies will have a good idea on how NOT ready are the young players. I don't think there was one player that looked anything near championship quality. This is a big worry for this season. Can only see a relegation fight on our hands

Did Olise look ready when he first came in? Did Omar Richards look ready? Some young players just need a few games in order to adjust to Championship football, we just don't know yet. Evaluate it after a month of the season.

They were pretty damn close to ready.Not sure any of the Academy boys used in this pre seasons friendlies were anywhere near close.I agree for a season or so Richards defensive qualities were challenged and targeted;but going forward he was right on the money.Olise had an awful lot going for him,right from the off.

I admit however that without a couple of loan signings,we will have little choice other than use the untried reserves.Let’s hope they can hit the ground running.

[Hound]

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

yep, and currently half of our squad are likely on about half that or below. Holmes, Azeez, Tetek + any other U23s will be well below. As said, if you take out Rafael, Swift and Moore, I'd be surprised if the average was higher than that.

[muirinho]

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

Yep. Throw in management and coaching costs, U23 costs, etc - and you want to be looking at something like 10K a week absolute tops for a couple of players, and most on no more than 6K. (The remaining 20% turnover would be to keep the lights on etc)

The flipside of that is that we would never be able to keep good academy players (or the likes of Meite) as they'd always get better money elsewhere as soon as they showed a bit of promise - so we'd only make money from training compensation.
Would be difficult to persuade experienced players to come to us also.
Could we survive in the championship like that? Possibly, yes. Could we compete in the top half? Doesn't seem terribly likely.

[Elm Park Kid]

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

yep, and currently half of our squad are likely on about half that or below. Holmes, Azeez, Tetek + any other U23s will be well below. As said, if you take out Rafael, Swift and Moore, I'd be surprised if the average was higher than that.

The below website suggests that Ejaria, Meite and Puscas are on substantially more - but you're right that if we lost the above 3 players that might be enough to get down to the necessary level. But one of the above would probably have to leave for us to bring in any more players and stay within the target.

https://footballleaguefc.com/reading-fc ... yer-wages/

[Snowflake Royal]

I can't see how the wages will be anything near that now though. We gambled, like many clubs who did it successfully, and failed due to poor signings

Did the cost of the new training ground come out of those losses? And yes, also the academy and women's team as well.
.

Yeah, people have said that to me every year since relegation. Yet to see it happen. I'm hoping it's down to about £26m last season, maybe £20m this season. No way it's anywhere near where it should be yet though.

I don't think capital expenditure on infrastructure is usually including.

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

Change the names and it's exactly what was said before.

[Snowflake Royal]

But they will of - of course they will. We've lost McCleary, Gunter etc off the wages last year, Baldock, Aluko plus plenty of fringe players this year. Unless, and this looks increasing unlikely, we get allowed to blow out on a couple of big signings, we'll have basically about 12 experienced first teamers - and of those probably only Rafael/Swift/Moore/Puscas/Joao on more than 10k a week or so. The likes of Holmes and Azeez are prob on about 1-2k week tops. If we were able to offload Moore, Rafael and Swift ( 2 ooc at the end of this year) I can't see how our wages wouldn't be where they should be

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

yep, and currently half of our squad are likely on about half that or below. Holmes, Azeez, Tetek + any other U23s will be well below. As said, if you take out Rafael, Swift and Moore, I'd be surprised if the average was higher than that.

If that's true, then the current wage budget is about £15m.

Which means between them, Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock etc accounted for about £18m. Which would put them all on an average (let's assume I've forgotten two big earners who left this or last summer) of £43k a week.

Or basically, your maths doesn't add up. Because there's no way it's more than about £25k a week and that's hopeful.

[Hound]

As Snowflake said earlier, if the club was sticking to the '80% of turnover' target, then our player wages should only be 11-12m a year. That works out an average of 9k a player for a 23 man squad.

yep, and currently half of our squad are likely on about half that or below. Holmes, Azeez, Tetek + any other U23s will be well below. As said, if you take out Rafael, Swift and Moore, I'd be surprised if the average was higher than that.

If that's true, then the current wage budget is about £15m.

Which means between them, Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock etc accounted for about £18m. Which would put them all on an average (let's assume I've forgotten two big earners who left this or last summer) of £43k a week.

Or basically, your maths doesn't add up. Because there's no way it's more than about £25k a week and that's hopeful.

There have been plenty of others who have left as well - Popa, Mannone, Walker, Gourlay himself, Barrow, Adam, Richards, Smith, East, Loader, Watson (all Gourlay contracts), to add to Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock. Meyler pay off. Expect we made significant contributions to the wages of Pele, Miazga, Boye and Semedo as well. Thats a lot in terms of wages.

I think we've only added Laurent to the wage bill along with U23s since then.

We're not there yet - but there is no chance our wage bill isnt substantially smaller than when that lot were on the payroll. Its all speculation but at least looking at things now, we could probably sell off all our big earners if we absolutely needed to, and pull some money in for most of them. Which hasn't been the case in the last 3 years.

[SCIAG]

Most of what you see on the internet about wages at this level is pure guesswork. FM is probably the most reliable source but isn’t perfect. Working backwards from the total wage bill is the only good piece of sense checking we have. Most recent

Based on the total wage bill and the fees we paid for them, Puscas and Joao are probably on large sums close to Moore and Swift. I also think Yiadom and Morrison are likely to be on more than £10,000 a week and probably closer to £15,000. They were players in demand and proven at this level.

Our average wage for 2019/20 was £17,000. If you take out the loan players and the youngsters earning <£1000 a week then the FootballLeagueFC figures still give an average of only £10,750. If getting rid of McCleary, Gunter, Obita, Popa, Barrow, Mannone, and Blackett caused that drop then those seven would have had to have earned an average of about £28,000 each, which is plausible but strikes me as optimistic.

The good news is that I can’t make that £17,000 figure work without the existing outgoings making up a sizeable chunk of the wage bill. The bad news is that I think all the sources have to be heavily underestimating the wages of our senior pros - Rafael, Morrison, Yiadom, Ejaria, Meite, Puscas, Joao, and even probably Moore and Swift.

[Snowflake Royal]

yep, and currently half of our squad are likely on about half that or below. Holmes, Azeez, Tetek + any other U23s will be well below. As said, if you take out Rafael, Swift and Moore, I'd be surprised if the average was higher than that.

If that's true, then the current wage budget is about £15m.

Which means between them, Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock etc accounted for about £18m. Which would put them all on an average (let's assume I've forgotten two big earners who left this or last summer) of £43k a week.

Or basically, your maths doesn't add up. Because there's no way it's more than about £25k a week and that's hopeful.

There have been plenty of others who have left as well - Popa, Mannone, Walker, Gourlay himself, Barrow, Adam, Richards, Smith, East, Loader, Watson (all Gourlay contracts), to add to Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock. Meyler pay off. Expect we made significant contributions to the wages of Pele, Miazga, Boye and Semedo as well. Thats a lot in terms of wages.

I think we've only added Laurent to the wage bill along with U23s since then.

We're not there yet - but there is no chance our wage bill isnt substantially smaller than when that lot were on the payroll. Its all speculation but at least looking at things now, we could probably sell off all our big earners if we absolutely needed to, and pull some money in for most of them. Which hasn't been the case in the last 3 years.

Not convinced all of those are in the same timescale. And most of them are smaller wages that no chance of pushing up the average to over 40.

And you've forgotten the youth intake, professional contracts, increased deals for several players. Loanee wages in previous years.

Like I say, every year for ages people claim we've slashed our wage bill. I do believe it's down by now, but there's no way it's in the green zone. Not even close.

[Hound]

If that's true, then the current wage budget is about £15m.

Which means between them, Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock etc accounted for about £18m. Which would put them all on an average (let's assume I've forgotten two big earners who left this or last summer) of £43k a week.

Or basically, your maths doesn't add up. Because there's no way it's more than about £25k a week and that's hopeful.

There have been plenty of others who have left as well - Popa, Mannone, Walker, Gourlay himself, Barrow, Adam, Richards, Smith, East, Loader, Watson (all Gourlay contracts), to add to Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock. Meyler pay off. Expect we made significant contributions to the wages of Pele, Miazga, Boye and Semedo as well. Thats a lot in terms of wages.

I think we've only added Laurent to the wage bill along with U23s since then.

We're not there yet - but there is no chance our wage bill isnt substantially smaller than when that lot were on the payroll. Its all speculation but at least looking at things now, we could probably sell off all our big earners if we absolutely needed to, and pull some money in for most of them. Which hasn't been the case in the last 3 years.

Not convinced all of those are in the same timescale. And most of them are smaller wages that no chance of pushing up the average to over 40.

And you've forgotten the youth intake, professional contracts, increased deals for several players. Loanee wages in previous years.

Like I say, every year for ages people claim we've slashed our wage bill. I do believe it's down by now, but there's no way it's in the green zone. Not even close.

Youth intake would be the same roughly now as then, so Certainly part of the wage bill but not massive. Professional contracts for the U23s - McIntyre etc I've referenced. But no way they are going to be at anything like the level of Barrow etc. Meite got an improved contract and is probably high earner. Anyone else? Rino/ Holmes are still on old contract. I did forget Ejaria though

Not sure where previous loanee wages comes into the equation. And I'm pretty sure every player referenced was contracted to play for us in the last 2 years.

I'd note some of SCIAG's post about his belief that Yiadom, Puscas and co are higher than we might see suggested. I could believe that

[muirinho]

There have been plenty of others who have left as well - Popa, Mannone, Walker, Gourlay himself, Barrow, Adam, Richards, Smith, East, Loader, Watson (all Gourlay contracts), to add to Obita, Blackett, McCleary, Gunter, Aluko and Baldock. Meyler pay off. Expect we made significant contributions to the wages of Pele, Miazga, Boye and Semedo as well. Thats a lot in terms of wages.

I think we've only added Laurent to the wage bill along with U23s since then.

We're not there yet - but there is no chance our wage bill isnt substantially smaller than when that lot were on the payroll. Its all speculation but at least looking at things now, we could probably sell off all our big earners if we absolutely needed to, and pull some money in for most of them. Which hasn't been the case in the last 3 years.

Not convinced all of those are in the same timescale. And most of them are smaller wages that no chance of pushing up the average to over 40.

And you've forgotten the youth intake, professional contracts, increased deals for several players. Loanee wages in previous years.

Like I say, every year for ages people claim we've slashed our wage bill. I do believe it's down by now, but there's no way it's in the green zone. Not even close.

Youth intake would be the same roughly now as then, so Certainly part of the wage bill but not massive. Professional contracts for the U23s - McIntyre etc I've referenced. But no way they are going to be at anything like the level of Barrow etc. Meite got an improved contract and is probably high earner. Anyone else? Rino/ Holmes are still on old contract. I did forget Ejaria though

Not sure where previous loanee wages comes into the equation. And I'm pretty sure every player referenced was contracted to play for us in the last 2 years.

I'd note some of SCIAG's post about his belief that Yiadom, Puscas and co are higher than we might see suggested. I could believe that

When salary costs are quoted, is that all in? And are footballers treated differently to other employees?

If they are employees, the employer has to pay an extra 13.8% on top in NI (above about 800 a month). Plus potentially pension contributions (although maybe footballers opt out of that).

Somebody earning "10K a week" - that's going to cost around 70K a year in NI on top of what the gross salary is.

[paddy20]

Not convinced all of those are in the same timescale. And most of them are smaller wages that no chance of pushing up the average to over 40.

And you've forgotten the youth intake, professional contracts, increased deals for several players. Loanee wages in previous years.

Like I say, every year for ages people claim we've slashed our wage bill. I do believe it's down by now, but there's no way it's in the green zone. Not even close.

Youth intake would be the same roughly now as then, so Certainly part of the wage bill but not massive. Professional contracts for the U23s - McIntyre etc I've referenced. But no way they are going to be at anything like the level of Barrow etc. Meite got an improved contract and is probably high earner. Anyone else? Rino/ Holmes are still on old contract. I did forget Ejaria though

Not sure where previous loanee wages comes into the equation. And I'm pretty sure every player referenced was contracted to play for us in the last 2 years.

I'd note some of SCIAG's post about his belief that Yiadom, Puscas and co are higher than we might see suggested. I could believe that

When salary costs are quoted, is that all in? And are footballers treated differently to other employees?

If they are employees, the employer has to pay an extra 13.8% on top in NI (above about 800 a month). Plus potentially pension contributions (although maybe footballers opt out of that).

Somebody earning "10K a week" - that's going to cost around 70K a year in NI on top of what the gross salary is.

If its shown in the accounts it should include employers nN.I and and pension contributions which are mandatory nowadays

[muirinho]

Youth intake would be the same roughly now as then, so Certainly part of the wage bill but not massive. Professional contracts for the U23s - McIntyre etc I've referenced. But no way they are going to be at anything like the level of Barrow etc. Meite got an improved contract and is probably high earner. Anyone else? Rino/ Holmes are still on old contract. I did forget Ejaria though

Not sure where previous loanee wages comes into the equation. And I'm pretty sure every player referenced was contracted to play for us in the last 2 years.

I'd note some of SCIAG's post about his belief that Yiadom, Puscas and co are higher than we might see suggested. I could believe that

When salary costs are quoted, is that all in? And are footballers treated differently to other employees?

If they are employees, the employer has to pay an extra 13.8% on top in NI (above about 800 a month). Plus potentially pension contributions (although maybe footballers opt out of that).

Somebody earning "10K a week" - that's going to cost around 70K a year in NI on top of what the gross salary is.

If its shown in the accounts it should include employers N.I and and pension contributions which are mandatory nowadays

Yeah, that's what I thought. So basically somebody on 10 K a week will cost the club 11.5 K, somebody on 20K a week will cost £23K. Etc.

[Fox Talbot]

Gotta find three clubs to finish below us.

Derby, Huddersfield, Brum, Cov, one of the promoted clubs.

Any other obvious candidates.?

[Lower West]

Gotta find three clubs to finish below us.

Derby, Huddersfield, Brum, Cov, one of the promoted clubs.

Any other obvious candidates.?

Huddersfield, Brum, Cov, Luton and Blackpool have strengthened their squads with 34 signings between them. Derby and us are the outliers. I wonder if the club is preparing for the worst. Take it on the chin this coming season. With the aim of rebuilding with a longer term objective in mind. After all Pauno's reputation is built on working with youngsters.

[Jackson Corner]

The stars have aligned we will definitely be relegated. Let’s not forget with a full strength squad we won one against the useless Derby in our last 11 games. And this season is our 150th season. What happened in our 100th season?
That’s right we were relegated on goal difference to the 4th division. Prepare for a long miserable season.
And for those idiots who think we will bounce back with a nice trophy in our pocket. The financial implications of relegation will be disastrous . All the senior squad would have to be sold or released the academy and ladies team would have to be scrapped. After the 71 disaster it took us 5 seasons to get up thanks to the genius of Robin Friday, and they were promptly relegated. Happy days ahead.

[Stranded]

Nah. Our 1st 11 is plenty good enough and there us some talent to push through. If we can make 3 decent signings, probably all on loan then we could do very well still.

In all likelihood, we'll finish around 10th to 15th.

22/23 could be tough looking at who is out of contract next summer.

[Snowflake Royal]

Gotta find three clubs to finish below us.

Derby, Huddersfield, Brum, Cov, one of the promoted clubs.

Any other obvious candidates.?

Huddersfield, Brum, Cov, Luton and Blackpool have strengthened their squads with 34 signings between them. Derby and us are the outliers. I wonder if the club is preparing for the worst. Take it on the chin this coming season. With the aim of rebuilding with a longer term objective in mind. After all Pauno's reputation is built on working with youngsters.

How do you rebuild when you're in the middle of about six seasons of transfer embargos and you're finances are already oxf*rd before you lose a load of income from being relegated.


This is the sort of thing I meant when I previously said it would be better to go down sooner and rebuild before we got into financial armageddon.

The losses are so huge and imbedded we're in very real trouble of disappearing back to tier 3/4 for quite some time

[Franchise FC]

The stars have aligned we will definitely be relegated. Let’s not forget with a full strength squad we won one against the useless Derby in our last 11 games. And this season is our 150th season. What happened in our 100th season?
That’s right we were relegated on goal difference to the 4th division. Prepare for a long miserable season.
And for those idiots who think we will bounce back with a nice trophy in our pocket. The financial implications of relegation will be disastrous . All the senior squad would have to be sold or released the academy and ladies team would have to be scrapped. After the 71 disaster it took us 5 seasons to get up thanks to the genius of Robin Friday, and they were promptly relegated. Happy days ahead.

Goal average in the early 70’s