BFTG - Brizzle

[Millsy]

Really don't want to write too much negative when overall I see positive but it is a real concern that our defence should be so poor.

Ok so we lost Richards but in fairness he was better going forward. Surely one position can't devastate the whole defence - the only player I can think of who can ruin a defensive unit is a keeper but Rafael has actually been reasonable. It's as though they spent the whole time between last season and this actively unlearning how to defend? Or is it that Moore has his mind elsewhere, Morro has lost his legs, Yiadom has lost his brain. Yes zonal marking is shite but it's not like that's new to them - if anything they've had more time to perfect it.

defending isn't just about the named defenders on the team sheet. Midfield protection plays a big part, as does (these days) the work the forwards do to track back or fill in space in a system / press the defenders. With McIntyre and Bristow both out of position and relatively inexperienced, does this mean Laurent and Rino play slightly differently creating gaps elsewhere as they cover the left hand side? I also think with Swift playing a floating role in midfield potentially creates uncertainties for others and, if Swift becomes the deepest midfielder at a point in time, he is not as good defensively as Laurent & Rino, and doesn't have the pace to cover the full backs, etc. Is that the reason we were defensively a bit more solid when Semedo played rather than Swift last season? Of course you lose a lot going forward without Swift

Good points, 3points!

I take what you say, but it seems far more relevant to oru defence in open play. We have massive issues in set plays where these things are less relevant. We've become utterly inept. Noone seems to know what to do.

[Snowflake Royal]

Definitely seen them given. 'Natural' position is a bit of a weird one anyway, your arm naturally goes in a big arc from head to hip. Morrisons handball last week - no arguments at all that was a pen - but if you are going in for a tackle, your arm would 'naturally' go in the position it ended up in. And that was unintentional and point blank range. But clearly a pen.

Hard to defend your arm flailing up like that.

It may be natural and helpful, but it's easily avoided.

Much less easy to play with your arm stapled to your side or clasped behind your back.

[tmesis]

Definitely seen them given. 'Natural' position is a bit of a weird one anyway, your arm naturally goes in a big arc from head to hip. Morrisons handball last week - no arguments at all that was a pen - but if you are going in for a tackle, your arm would 'naturally' go in the position it ended up in. And that was unintentional and point blank range. But clearly a pen.

If you can say it meets all the criteria for not being a penalty, but it definitely is a penalty anyway, you potentially have a fine career as a TV pundit. Andy Townsend would be proud.

[Hound]

Definitely seen them given. 'Natural' position is a bit of a weird one anyway, your arm naturally goes in a big arc from head to hip. Morrisons handball last week - no arguments at all that was a pen - but if you are going in for a tackle, your arm would 'naturally' go in the position it ended up in. And that was unintentional and point blank range. But clearly a pen.

If you can say it meets all the criteria for not being a penalty, but it definitely is a penalty anyway, you potentially have a fine career as a TV pundit. Andy Townsend would be proud.

Nope, just have an example of where the ‘natural position’ argument is a load of nonsense

[Snowflake Royal]

I think when we say natural position, we should be meaning natural resting position, not natural counterbalance position, because you can control the latter fairly easily, but avoiding the former is hard and restrictive.

Natural resting position close to the side is perhaps a way it could / should be considered.

[Hound]

I think when we say natural position, we should be meaning natural resting position, not natural counterbalance position, because you can control the latter fairly easily, but avoiding the former is hard and restrictive.

Natural resting position close to the side is perhaps a way it could / should be considered.

yep probably a reasonable suggestion

Not totally sure you can always control a counterbalance, but if by the nature of your blocking action, the arm comes out - then i'd prob consider that a reasonable penalty award

[tmesis]

Definitely seen them given. 'Natural' position is a bit of a weird one anyway, your arm naturally goes in a big arc from head to hip. Morrisons handball last week - no arguments at all that was a pen - but if you are going in for a tackle, your arm would 'naturally' go in the position it ended up in. And that was unintentional and point blank range. But clearly a pen.

If you can say it meets all the criteria for not being a penalty, but it definitely is a penalty anyway, you potentially have a fine career as a TV pundit. Andy Townsend would be proud.

Nope, just have an example of where the ‘natural position’ argument is a load of nonsense

I've heard it said that referees have difficulty agreeing on what to give if players block a ball as a reaction of it being hit right at them. Some say that as it is an instinctive move, something you do subconsciously, it's beyond the player's control, and shouldn't be handball.

The changes around "intentional" are supposed to have moved away from the idea of a player intending to handle the ball, and been more towards it being the player's fault or not.

Rather like the strict interpretation of offside that VAR gives us, it's all rather moving away from the whole point of the handball rule, which was to stop people controlling the ball with their arm - not to be some technical infringement for accidental contact.