BFTG - Peter's Borough

[NewCorkSeth]

The one thing that still amazes me about Ejaria is how long Liverpool held on to him before his permanent deal. Bags of ability, but he/the club just can't harness it.

I still think he has value beyond just plain goals and assists. Any team that didn't close him down would be made look foolish. The fact they have to pay close attention to him gives us a lot more breathing room in attack.

They don't need to close him down, he just runs straight to the nearest defender and stops anyway.

If he made good decisions and played to win / score he'd still be at Liverpool. He doesn't so he's with a shit Championship team.

Right. Except for the fact that he only lost the ball 7 times last night. Tackled twice and 2 misplaced passes. He might run straight at his man but it progresses the ball a fair bit and he was the one who played the, simple, but very effective pass to Swift for our 3rd.

By the eye test he was poorer than usual last night but his numbers were excellent. Only 2 players had a higher % of possession than him last night and Swift (one of the 2) lost the ball 4 more times than him.

Not that I expect this is super convincing. I do hate that "he's still be at Liverpool" argument though. Big clubs dont let quality young players go?

[NewCorkSeth]

I'd certainly rather have Ovie playing for us than having to come up against him, that's for sure.

Reckon if you polled every manager in the div on who our 3 best players are, Ovie would be in 90% of them

Ovie, Swift and Joao?

[Hound]

I'd certainly rather have Ovie playing for us than having to come up against him, that's for sure.

Reckon if you polled every manager in the div on who our 3 best players are, Ovie would be in 90% of them

Ovie, Swift and Joao?

id expect so

[Franchise FC]

Although not physically present I watched the game on the red button on Sky.

Why is that important ? Because I’m traditionally a jinx and rarely see us win, even when we’re going through a good spell.
Well, that’s seen that jinx off

[Hendo]

Reckon if you polled every manager in the div on who our 3 best players are, Ovie would be in 90% of them

Ovie, Swift and Joao?

id expect so

Would probably add Meite in as a wild card as well.

[Snowflake Royal]

I still think he has value beyond just plain goals and assists. Any team that didn't close him down would be made look foolish. The fact they have to pay close attention to him gives us a lot more breathing room in attack.

They don't need to close him down, he just runs straight to the nearest defender and stops anyway.

If he made good decisions and played to win / score he'd still be at Liverpool. He doesn't so he's with a shit Championship team.

Right. Except for the fact that he only lost the ball 7 times last night. Tackled twice and 2 misplaced passes. He might run straight at his man but it progresses the ball a fair bit and he was the one who played the, simple, but very effective pass to Swift for our 3rd.

By the eye test he was poorer than usual last night but his numbers were excellent. Only 2 players had a higher % of possession than him last night and Swift (one of the 2) lost the ball 4 more times than him.

Not that I expect this is super convincing. I do hate that "he's still be at Liverpool" argument though. Big clubs dont let quality young players go?

Blah numbers blah.

[Hound]

They don't need to close him down, he just runs straight to the nearest defender and stops anyway.

If he made good decisions and played to win / score he'd still be at Liverpool. He doesn't so he's with a shit Championship team.

Right. Except for the fact that he only lost the ball 7 times last night. Tackled twice and 2 misplaced passes. He might run straight at his man but it progresses the ball a fair bit and he was the one who played the, simple, but very effective pass to Swift for our 3rd.

By the eye test he was poorer than usual last night but his numbers were excellent. Only 2 players had a higher % of possession than him last night and Swift (one of the 2) lost the ball 4 more times than him.

Not that I expect this is super convincing. I do hate that "he's still be at Liverpool" argument though. Big clubs dont let quality young players go?

Blah numbers blah.

Not what you say when you are quoting his assists/goals last year as a stick to beat him though is it?

[Snowflake Royal]

Right. Except for the fact that he only lost the ball 7 times last night. Tackled twice and 2 misplaced passes. He might run straight at his man but it progresses the ball a fair bit and he was the one who played the, simple, but very effective pass to Swift for our 3rd.

By the eye test he was poorer than usual last night but his numbers were excellent. Only 2 players had a higher % of possession than him last night and Swift (one of the 2) lost the ball 4 more times than him.

Not that I expect this is super convincing. I do hate that "he's still be at Liverpool" argument though. Big clubs dont let quality young players go?

Blah numbers blah.

Not what you say when you are quoting his assists/goals last year as a stick to beat him though is it?

Some numbers have more value and context than others.

The point of the game is to score goals afterall. Not get %possession

[Hound]

Blah numbers blah.

Not what you say when you are quoting his assists/goals last year as a stick to beat him though is it?

Some numbers have more value and context than others.

Lolz. Yep only if it backs up your point.

[NewCorkSeth]

Blah numbers blah.

Not what you say when you are quoting his assists/goals last year as a stick to beat him though is it?

Some numbers have more value and context than others.

The point of the game is to score goals afterall. Not get %possession

So aerial duels, interceptions and tackles aren't as valuable in securing a positive result as assists or goals in your opinion? Not attacking, just wondering.

[Zip]

Surprised there hasn’t been more comment on our third goal. It was an absolute belter.

[Snowflake Royal]

Not what you say when you are quoting his assists/goals last year as a stick to beat him though is it?

Some numbers have more value and context than others.

The point of the game is to score goals afterall. Not get %possession

So aerial duels, interceptions and tackles aren't as valuable in securing a positive result as assists or goals in your opinion? Not attacking, just wondering.

I've gone into my views on football stats many times.

Individual stats like that are hard to reliably collate, and are such isolated parts of the game they little to no meaningful value beyond being a rough measure of that particular thing. Which is why the aggregation ratings for them are bollox. I'd maybe look at them for a new signing I hadn’t seen play to get some info at least.

Useful for measuring how many times something happens compared to other players, but it's all quantitative, not qualitative.

So, for example, I'd use pass accuracy, dispossessed and turn over etc to challenge or reinforce a perception a player loses the ball a lot. But not really how impactful those were on performance or result.

My problem with Ejaria is and always has been (and was the same with Swift before he started delivering) that whilst he looks incredibly talented, he doesn't deliver.

Looking at Swift now, you can see him drive into space, beat players to progress, score and create goals. I think Ovie probably has better technique. But he doesn't drive into space. He ambles into could sacs. He doesn't progress, he stops. He doesn't create or score goals.

Have you noticed how he often carries the ball under his centre of balance? It means he has to more drag the ball around than control it, puts him off balance and makes back lift for a solid pass or shot really hard, slows down everything he does... It's a really stupid way to play imo.

[3points]

First half - way too slow, lack of movement, especially in midfield. Hal started like a house on fire but burnt himself out after 15 mins. Looks to be a luxury player based on that performance and wouldn’t start him personally. Thought the shape was much better when Hoilett came on.

As already stated Puscas deserved more. He wants to run the channels between the CB and FB but we never play the pass for him. Why has Pauno not got the team doing this and playing him in. The one time we did it led to Puscas setting up TDB’s first goal.

Thought TDB was poor first half. I think second half it was more obvious that Swift was playing further forward, whereas he was very deep in the first half picking the ball up from the CBs. So TDB looks more comfortable playing a bit deeper and not as a 10.

Looked like Ovie was struggling with cramp from about 70 mins so a bit surprised Tetek didn’t come on a bit sooner.

[Zip]

First half - way too slow, lack of movement, especially in midfield. Hal started like a house on fire but burnt himself out after 15 mins. Looks to be a luxury player based on that performance and wouldn’t start him personally. Thought the shape was much better when Hoilett came on.

As already stated Puscas deserved more. He wants to run the channels between the CB and FB but we never play the pass for him. Why has Pauno not got the team doing this and playing him in. The one time we did it led to Puscas setting up TDB’s first goal.

Thought TDB was poor first half. I think second half it was more obvious that Swift was playing further forward, whereas he was very deep in the first half picking the ball up from the CBs. So TDB looks more comfortable playing a bit deeper and not as a 10.

Looked like Ovie was struggling with cramp from about 70 mins so a bit surprised Tetek didn’t come on a bit sooner.

Agree with a lot of this although if Ovie had been subbed earlier he wouldn’t have made that lovely pass to Swift in the build up to the third goal.

[Hound]

Some numbers have more value and context than others.

The point of the game is to score goals afterall. Not get %possession

So aerial duels, interceptions and tackles aren't as valuable in securing a positive result as assists or goals in your opinion? Not attacking, just wondering.

I've gone into my views on football stats many times.

Individual stats like that are hard to reliably collate, and are such isolated parts of the game they little to no meaningful value beyond being a rough measure of that particular thing. Which is why the aggregation ratings for them are bollox. I'd maybe look at them for a new signing I hadn’t seen play to get some info at least.

Useful for measuring how many times something happens compared to other players, but it's all quantitative, not qualitative.

So, for example, I'd use pass accuracy, dispossessed and turn over etc to challenge or reinforce a perception a player loses the ball a lot. But not really how impactful those were on performance or result.

My problem with Ejaria is and always has been (and was the same with Swift before he started delivering) that whilst he looks incredibly talented, he doesn't deliver.

Looking at Swift now, you can see him drive into space, beat players to progress, score and create goals. I think Ovie probably has better technique. But he doesn't drive into space. He ambles into could sacs. He doesn't progress, he stops. He doesn't create or score goals.

Have you noticed how he often carries the ball under his centre of balance? It means he has to more drag the ball around than control it, puts him off balance and makes back lift for a solid pass or shot really hard, slows down everything he does... It's a really stupid way to play imo.

But my point is they are different players. Ovie is far stronger defensively, holds the ball up better, wins more in the air. The number of times he picks up a ball deep in our half and gets an attack going far outweighs the number of times he looks indecisive and loses it. When fully fit I’d wager his one of our hardest workers as well

Swift is a gem of a player but it’s taken time for him to realise his talent. Noticed he has also - probably wisely - not chosen to press so much/go in for tackles recently. Ovie is progressing but we shouldn’t expect him to match swift’s goal and assist tally.

[Half Time Pizza]

Interesting to see that after we scored we seemed to have a shoot on goal policy. I can't recall a game in recent times where in many instances in around the box we took the shot on rather than play a pass. Obviously worked with the third goal

[Lower West]

I still think he has value beyond just plain goals and assists. Any team that didn't close him down would be made look foolish. The fact they have to pay close attention to him gives us a lot more breathing room in attack.

They don't need to close him down, he just runs straight to the nearest defender and stops anyway.

If he made good decisions and played to win / score he'd still be at Liverpool. He doesn't so he's with a shit Championship team.

Right. Except for the fact that he only lost the ball 7 times last night. Tackled twice and 2 misplaced passes. He might run straight at his man but it progresses the ball a fair bit and he was the one who played the, simple, but very effective pass to Swift for our 3rd.

By the eye test he was poorer than usual last night but his numbers were excellent. Only 2 players had a higher % of possession than him last night and Swift (one of the 2) lost the ball 4 more times than him.

Not that I expect this is super convincing. I do hate that "he's still be at Liverpool" argument though. Big clubs dont let quality young players go?

He wouldn't be at Reading either. Arguably a defensive liability.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

So aerial duels, interceptions and tackles aren't as valuable in securing a positive result as assists or goals in your opinion? Not attacking, just wondering.

I've gone into my views on football stats many times.

Individual stats like that are hard to reliably collate, and are such isolated parts of the game they little to no meaningful value beyond being a rough measure of that particular thing. Which is why the aggregation ratings for them are bollox. I'd maybe look at them for a new signing I hadn’t seen play to get some info at least.

Useful for measuring how many times something happens compared to other players, but it's all quantitative, not qualitative.

So, for example, I'd use pass accuracy, dispossessed and turn over etc to challenge or reinforce a perception a player loses the ball a lot. But not really how impactful those were on performance or result.

My problem with Ejaria is and always has been (and was the same with Swift before he started delivering) that whilst he looks incredibly talented, he doesn't deliver.

Looking at Swift now, you can see him drive into space, beat players to progress, score and create goals. I think Ovie probably has better technique. But he doesn't drive into space. He ambles into could sacs. He doesn't progress, he stops. He doesn't create or score goals.

Have you noticed how he often carries the ball under his centre of balance? It means he has to more drag the ball around than control it, puts him off balance and makes back lift for a solid pass or shot really hard, slows down everything he does... It's a really stupid way to play imo.

But my point is they are different players. Ovie is far stronger defensively, holds the ball up better, wins more in the air. The number of times he picks up a ball deep in our half and gets an attack going far outweighs the number of times he looks indecisive and loses it. When fully fit I’d wager his one of our hardest workers as well

Swift is a gem of a player but it’s taken time for him to realise his talent. Noticed he has also - probably wisely - not chosen to press so much/go in for tackles recently. Ovie is progressing but we shouldn’t expect him to match swift’s goal and assist tally.

Comparing Ovie to Swift is a bit of a dog shit comparison, why not Laurent or Rino? Oh it doesn't suit the narrative.
Swift is leading the way by some margin in the whole league in the goal assists this season. Different style of play + different position, also 3 years younger. Remember how awfully ineffective Swift looked stuck out on the left? Hard to drive into space when your are out on the left, i bet if we swapped over the 2, Ovie will look better in the middle than swift does out on the wing.
I do agree with you that he slows the game down and decision making needs to be more decisive. Its not helped that his playing style makes him look very lethargic and laboured but he put in a shift most games last season and covers a lot of ground
As another poster said, much rather he be in our starting 11 than anybody elses. He needs to form an understanding with Baba as they got in each others way though.

[Snowflake Royal]

Swift is an attacking midfielder. Ejaria is an attacking midfielder.

Swift previously held on to the ball too long tried to do too many tricks and didn't deliver end product, but improved. Ovie currently does what Swift used to.

Rinomhota and Laurent aren't attacking midfielders. They aren't in the side to create and score goals.

It's not hard is it.

[leon]

Checks in to the Team Board.

Checks right out again.