Points Deduction Incoming!

[Pepe the Horseman]

We will be in League 2, or worse, in a few years

Imagine wanting to be like Bolton. Anybody who wants that is utterly braindead and clueless.

They're in League One, so wouldn't that be better?

[Wycombe Royal]

What's the difference between what we've done and what QPR did a few years back, when they just got a fine? Is it just that they've introduced stricter punishments?

Becuase they had been promoted to the Prem and therefore could not have a points deduction.

[RG30]

Lots of rumours of other clubs facing deductions. Any idea who?

Stoke will be one for sure.

[Hound]

So we don't get an increasingly large points deduction each year.

Its not like we couldn’t have chosen to do more alongside the embargos to prevent the points deduction.

we could, but the fact we haven't has kept us competitive. Ive no real issue with what we've done since the first embargo in 2019. Now at a point where we have little wage liabilities in the summer and able to rebuild whilst having an ok couple of years

We had a squad of around 28 players in the 19/20 season; don’t think that was the most logical action given the position we were in

Will never be able to fully comprehend the disasters of the two 2017 windows. So many average (at best) players brought in for such little effect. Position only worsened each year since then

yep terrible windows.

Think most of the 28 squad players were players hanging around from previous years business. Got in Joao and Puscas (plus was it Pele and Miazga?) but as mentioned previously, I'd argue those signings kept us up.

Will have to have a scan back through at that squad, but know Bowen was very uncomfortable with the squad size. Actually think even going back to Clement he moaned a fair bit about it. Maybe we could have been more aggressive cutting it.

edit: looking at the squad - yeah definitely some unnecessary signings I'd forgotten about - Adam, Boye then later Araruna and Timbe. At least they were short term

[Orion1871]

Shame we've been sanctioned before the inevitable fall of Financial (un)Fair Play.

The process of fall has already been started thanks to Man City challenging and beating the anti competitive rules imposed by UEFA in their competitions.

[Snowflake Royal]

So, the EFL's logic and methods are far, far from perfect. But they are constrained by the fact that football clubs are private entities and that they don't have perfect information on which to operate.

The transfer embargo is basically the best tool the EFL has to force a club to stop spending money. It's not a punishment, it's an attempt to reign in club owners who have been acting 'irresponsibly' according to recent accounts.

The points deduction is then the punishment that is supposed to deter clubs from trying this in the first place. It's not just the case that you will be limited in your spending, but some of the benefits you gained from past spending all that money will be wiped away. It's what should happen.

I honestly think that a 6-9 point deduction would be a more than reasonable punishment for what we've done. I personally would support automatic relegation for clubs that wilfully ignore FFP requirements.

Good post.

[Millsy]

I heard that because we represent the royal county they can't actually enforce it.

[windermereROYAL]

I heard that because we represent the royal county they can't actually enforce it.

Can i borrow some of those straws you are clutching at mate.

[Simmops]

We will be in League 2, or worse, in a few years

Imagine wanting to be like Bolton. Anybody who wants that is utterly braindead and clueless.

They're in League One, so wouldn't that be better?

after being in L2

[zaskar]

Won't it just have protected us from falling foul of the limits again?

I think my issue is what was the point in the embargo if we were just going to get a points deduction anyway? It's left us with a weaker squad than if they'd just deducted us the points.

Maybe we'd be looking at a bigger deduction if we hadn't worked with the EFL closely for the past few windows. Presumably the fact we need to submit a business plan means the deduction isn't the end of the issue?

I would think that we will be under an embargo at least until we can get our annual losses down to 13 million if not the combined three year losses to under 39 million, which might take a while as I think last years losses are combined with the previous year and averaged to smooth out the covid effects.

[Norfolk Royal]

Is there any hope we're panicking a bit early on this. That report, while probably true, is speculative.

Is there any precedent for clubs in our position not getting a points deduction?

Also, if Forest and Hull get deductions we're then playing in a league of four which we may well win.

[Millsy]

I heard that because we represent the royal county they can't actually enforce it.

Can i borrow some of those straws you are clutching at mate.

Why do you think we sometimes play in our home kit away?

We're untouchable.

[Scutterbucketz]

So, the EFL's logic and methods are far, far from perfect. But they are constrained by the fact that football clubs are private entities and that they don't have perfect information on which to operate.

The transfer embargo is basically the best tool the EFL has to force a club to stop spending money. It's not a punishment, it's an attempt to reign in club owners who have been acting 'irresponsibly' according to recent accounts.

The points deduction is then the punishment that is supposed to deter clubs from trying this in the first place. It's not just the case that you will be limited in your spending, but some of the benefits you gained from past spending all that money will be wiped away. It's what should happen.

I honestly think that a 6-9 point deduction would be a more than reasonable punishment for what we've done. I personally would support automatic relegation for clubs that wilfully ignore FFP requirements.

Good post.

I disagree.

All this league will produce is the same bigger teams with parachute payments yo-yo-ing up and down, and maybe occasionally you’ll get a team playing by the FFP rules who scrape through the play offs. It’s not competitive and it’s pretty far from fair.

[genome]

Is there any hope we're panicking a bit early on this. That report, while probably true, is speculative.

Is there any precedent for clubs in our position not getting a points deduction?

Also, if Forest and Hull get deductions we're then playing in a league of four which we may well win.

I'm just going by the assumption that it will happen, even then, I'm not particularly that worried, I don't think 9 points is terminal.

[URZZZZ]

we could, but the fact we haven't has kept us competitive. Ive no real issue with what we've done since the first embargo in 2019. Now at a point where we have little wage liabilities in the summer and able to rebuild whilst having an ok couple of years

We had a squad of around 28 players in the 19/20 season; don’t think that was the most logical action given the position we were in

Will never be able to fully comprehend the disasters of the two 2017 windows. So many average (at best) players brought in for such little effect. Position only worsened each year since then

yep terrible windows.

Think most of the 28 squad players were players hanging around from previous years business. Got in Joao and Puscas (plus was it Pele and Miazga?) but as mentioned previously, I'd argue those signings kept us up.

Will have to have a scan back through at that squad, but know Bowen was very uncomfortable with the squad size. Actually think even going back to Clement he moaned a fair bit about it. Maybe we could have been more aggressive cutting it.

edit: looking at the squad - yeah definitely some unnecessary signings I'd forgotten about - Adam, Boye then later Araruna and Timbe. At least they were short term

Virginia too although relatively speaking, can’t imagine he would have cost us very much at all

Must admit, don’t particularly share the same thoughts with your reflections on the 2019 window. The squad we had should have been much more capable than relying on a good Christmas period to get us over the line. Rafael and Morrison were the only ones who performed fairly consistently through the season. Miazga kept picking up knocks and the rest only played well in fits and bursts that season. Joao and Ejaria have delivered longer term benefits but I still wouldn’t have classified it as a particularly successful window given that we finished 14th and two managers were sacked by the start of the next season

[windermereROYAL]

Yes the parachute money is poisonous, making the PL a closed shop of 26 clubs including the yo-yo clubs.

[RG30]

Is there any hope we're panicking a bit early on this. That report, while probably true, is speculative.

The journalist who reported it is as credible as they come. So I'd take what he says as what will happen.

[Crowbar6753]

Would be nice if they could back date the 9 point deduction to last week! means we would've almost cleared our slate after Peterbrough, QPR and Fulham

[andrew1957]

On reflection what I do find annoying about FPP is the inability to offer decent contracts to players coming to the end of the current ones.

Losing Richards last season and Swift, Laurent, Rimonhota and Holmes at the end of this season for nothing will hardly help RFC balance the books. And it will be a struggle next season with very few contracted players left and very limited ability to sign replacements. That means we will have been under embargo for two seasons, then had a points deduction and then be left with a very poor squad for 2022/3 and a likely relegation in any case. It does seem like multiple punishments for the same offence.

And of course as others have mentioned if like Bournemouth you gamble and do get promoted you get off scot free. Although our owners have clearly breached the rules there must be a better way to police overspending that the current rules.

[Snowflake Royal]

So, the EFL's logic and methods are far, far from perfect. But they are constrained by the fact that football clubs are private entities and that they don't have perfect information on which to operate.

The transfer embargo is basically the best tool the EFL has to force a club to stop spending money. It's not a punishment, it's an attempt to reign in club owners who have been acting 'irresponsibly' according to recent accounts.

The points deduction is then the punishment that is supposed to deter clubs from trying this in the first place. It's not just the case that you will be limited in your spending, but some of the benefits you gained from past spending all that money will be wiped away. It's what should happen.

I honestly think that a 6-9 point deduction would be a more than reasonable punishment for what we've done. I personally would support automatic relegation for clubs that wilfully ignore FFP requirements.

Good post.

I disagree.

All this league will produce is the same bigger teams with parachute payments yo-yo-ing up and down, and maybe occasionally you’ll get a team playing by the FFP rules who scrape through the play offs. It’s not competitive and it’s pretty far from fair.

Its a good post because it acknowledges the flaws.

The whole structure and make up of the league system is a farce with the hoarding of resources and incoming and systemic overspending.

The current alternative is far more financial doping and clubs imploding to much greater degrees.

If it weren't for FFP, we'd have lost tons more for no real improvement in position. And be in much greater danger of liquidation, rather than being forced more towards living in our means.