Points Deduction Incoming!

[Hound]

interesting stuff

Do we know what the losses in 19/20 were? all merges into one. And is the Covid season just written off?

[Franchise FC]

If the club used some funds to buy Lottery tickets and won Euromillions, does the £150m count towards FFP ?

[Stranded]

See STAR’s structured dialogue meeting notes linked in the thread below:

https://www.royals.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 0#p5164883

Basically, unless the FL change the rules, it sounds like Reading are going to be hamstrung by this mess until season 2022/23

Interesting*

Confirmation then that a points deduction is definitely happening this season then but positive that the EFL are apparently trying to help us as we've been working with them. Also a positive that we seem likely to meet the requirements this year though we could be in points deduction territory again the season after.

Also positive that there are no blocks on offering new deals to those who are coming out of contract.

Overall, I feel slightly encouraged by that but aware that it is going to be a bumpy path unless we somehow get promoted in the next season or two.

Yes sort of agree but the potential points deduction next season too is a big blow.

I read it that we would comply for 21/22 therefore no points deduction next year but it will be difficult for us to comply for 22/23 - if so, then points could be lopped off in 23/24 but could be wrong on that. Would also expect that any secondary points deduction would be smaller if we are working with the EFL to get a position we sustainably meet the requirements.

Going by the minutes Stabler didn't suggest we would breach but I would suggest without a decent sale or two, we may find it tricky.

[Chairman Mao]

We could easily be paying:

Moore - £30k
Swift - £25k
Cabral - £20k
Ejaria - £20k
Joao - £18k
Meite - £18k
Puscas - £18k
Yiadom - £16k
£165k = £8.5m

Morrison - £12k
Rahman - £8.5k
Araruna - £10k
McIntyre - £10k
Holmes - £8k
Laurent - £12k
Rinomhota - £8k
Dele-Bashiru - £8.5k
Hoilett - £8k
Southwood - £6k
Tetek - £4k
Halilovic - £8k
Bristow - £2k
Drinkwater - £8.5k
Dann - £8k
Azeez - £4k
£125.5k = £6.5m

That's £15m for the first team squad. Add in Academy and coaches and we could reasonably be knocking in around £18m to £20m. Which means we'd still be making a loss. And that would have come down about £13m in two seasons.

Much better but we could do with a couple of years of profit.

15 million would be at the conservative end of estimates wouldnt it?

[Zip]

Interesting*

Confirmation then that a points deduction is definitely happening this season then but positive that the EFL are apparently trying to help us as we've been working with them. Also a positive that we seem likely to meet the requirements this year though we could be in points deduction territory again the season after.

Also positive that there are no blocks on offering new deals to those who are coming out of contract.

Overall, I feel slightly encouraged by that but aware that it is going to be a bumpy path unless we somehow get promoted in the next season or two.

Yes sort of agree but the potential points deduction next season too is a big blow.

I read it that we would comply for 21/22 therefore no points deduction next year but it will be difficult for us to comply for 22/23 - if so, then points could be lopped off in 23/24 but could be wrong on that. Would also expect that any secondary points deduction would be smaller if we are working with the EFL to get a position we sustainably meet the requirements.

Going by the minutes Stabler didn't suggest we would breach but I would suggest without a decent sale or two, we may find it tricky.

I don’t get that. Surely we are more at risk of FFP breach in 21/22 rather than 22/23 as the 19/20 accounts will still form part of the three year rolling period calculation.

[Lower West]

We could easily be paying:

Moore - £30k
Swift - £25k
Cabral - £20k
Ejaria - £20k
Joao - £18k
Meite - £18k
Puscas - £18k
Yiadom - £16k
£165k = £8.5m

Morrison - £12k
Rahman - £8.5k
Araruna - £10k
McIntyre - £10k
Holmes - £8k
Laurent - £12k
Rinomhota - £8k
Dele-Bashiru - £8.5k
Hoilett - £8k
Southwood - £6k
Tetek - £4k
Halilovic - £8k
Bristow - £2k
Drinkwater - £8.5k
Dann - £8k
Azeez - £4k
£125.5k = £6.5m

That's £15m for the first team squad. Add in Academy and coaches and we could reasonably be knocking in around £18m to £20m. Which means we'd still be making a loss. And that would have come down about £13m in two seasons.

Much better but we could do with a couple of years of profit.

15 million would be at the conservative end of estimates wouldnt it?

Then there's employers national insurance on top to pay. Which rises by another 1.25% next April. Or an additional £3.6k a week, Football in general is going to be squeezed financially in the time ahead.

[Zip]

interesting stuff

Do we know what the losses in 19/20 were? all merges into one. And is the Covid season just written off?

2019/20 was a 43.5 million loss
2018/19 was 40.7 million loss

Just shocking figures. Eye watering. It should never have reached this level of loss.

2020/21 figures are not to be written off but factored alongside 2021/22. God knows how that will work as every EFL club is going to post huge losses.

[Stranded]

Yes sort of agree but the potential points deduction next season too is a big blow.

I read it that we would comply for 21/22 therefore no points deduction next year but it will be difficult for us to comply for 22/23 - if so, then points could be lopped off in 23/24 but could be wrong on that. Would also expect that any secondary points deduction would be smaller if we are working with the EFL to get a position we sustainably meet the requirements.

Going by the minutes Stabler didn't suggest we would breach but I would suggest without a decent sale or two, we may find it tricky.

I don’t get that. Surely we are more at risk of FFP breach in 21/22 rather than 22/23 as the 19/20 accounts will still form part of the three year rolling period calculation.

I think it is because with Covid there is a 4 year window. So we are OK this year as it is the last year with a profit in the calcs but that drops next, putting us at risk again. That's my take from the way it was written, so could be wrong of course.

[Zip]

I read it that we would comply for 21/22 therefore no points deduction next year but it will be difficult for us to comply for 22/23 - if so, then points could be lopped off in 23/24 but could be wrong on that. Would also expect that any secondary points deduction would be smaller if we are working with the EFL to get a position we sustainably meet the requirements.

Going by the minutes Stabler didn't suggest we would breach but I would suggest without a decent sale or two, we may find it tricky.

I don’t get that. Surely we are more at risk of FFP breach in 21/22 rather than 22/23 as the 19/20 accounts will still form part of the three year rolling period calculation.

I think it is because with Covid there is a 4 year window. So we are OK this year as it is the last year with a profit in the calcs but that drops next, putting us at risk again. That's my take from the way it was written, so could be wrong of course.

Yes I can see that. What a mess.

[Stranded]

interesting stuff

Do we know what the losses in 19/20 were? all merges into one. And is the Covid season just written off?

2019/20 was a 43.5 million loss
2018/19 was 40.7 million loss

Just shocking figures. Eye watering. It should never have reached this level of loss.

2020/21 figures are not to be written off but factored alongside 2021/22. God knows how that will work as every EFL club is going to post huge losses.

Are those the FFP losses or total losses and do we know which company is actually used for the calcs? I'm sure I read that it is not the obvious RFC Ltd but another entity but may be misremembering.

[Zip]

interesting stuff

Do we know what the losses in 19/20 were? all merges into one. And is the Covid season just written off?

2019/20 was a 43.5 million loss
2018/19 was 40.7 million loss

Just shocking figures. Eye watering. It should never have reached this level of loss.

2020/21 figures are not to be written off but factored alongside 2021/22. God knows how that will work as every EFL club is going to post huge losses.

Are those the FFP losses or total losses and do we know which company is actually used for the calcs? I'm sure I read that it is not the obvious RFC Ltd but another entity but may be misremembering.

Those are the total losses so losses for FFP calcs will be lower but even so massively over the £13 million loss per season that we need to be aiming for.

[loyalroyal4life]

sorry if i missed this being discussed but IF hypothetically we were promoted this year would that mean any pending FFP penalties would be effectively written off?

[Zip]

sorry if i missed this being discussed but IF hypothetically we were promoted this year would that mean any pending FFP penalties would be effectively written off?

I think so because we would be under PL and not EFL jurisdiction.

[Nameless]

sorry if i missed this being discussed but IF hypothetically we were promoted this year would that mean any pending FFP penalties would be effectively written off?

Don’t think they would just be written off. They would be sat waiting there for when we returned to the Championship......

[Stranded]

sorry if i missed this being discussed but IF hypothetically we were promoted this year would that mean any pending FFP penalties would be effectively written off?

Don’t think they would just be written off. They would be sat waiting there for when we returned to the Championship......

They would but historically a relegated side who breached before promotion just get a fine rather than a deduction etc. Though it looks like any promotion would have to be achieved with a deduction this year.

[tidus_mi2]

Would it be in the EFLs interest to go easy on us? We are co-operating with them, looking to agree a punishment, I'm not saying skip the deduction entirely but this has to be much better for them than all the legal nonsense they've gone through with previous offenders.

If they go easy on us, it encourages future offenders to co-operate, if they throw the book at us, it encourages future offenders to fight FFP charges tooth and nail.

[Stranded]

Would it be in the EFLs interest to go easy on us? We are co-operating with them, looking to agree a punishment, I'm not saying skip the deduction entirely but this has to be much better for them than all the legal nonsense they've gone through with previous offenders.

If they go easy on us, it encourages future offenders to co-operate, if they throw the book at us, it encourages future offenders to fight FFP charges tooth and nail.

That is an interesting view and one I can see sense in.

I think given it is pretty well accepted that we may well breach either next year or the year after before things improve that we will see a split punishment i.e. 6 pts now with 3 taken off next time if we are sticking to the agreed business plan etc. Shows that they are applying the rules but also not overly punishing a club working with them to get back on the right side of things.

[Hound]

Will be interesting to see.

there must be other clubs who have also broken FFP and will do so over the next couple of years. Too late to 'set an example of us' I imagine, and more likely to be a fairly acceptable penalty which will set a standard precedent

[paultheroyal]

Will be interesting to see.

there must be other clubs who have also broken FFP and will do so over the next couple of years. Too late to 'set an example of us' I imagine, and more likely to be a fairly acceptable penalty which will set a standard precedent

the feeling is 6 points - take that all day long.

[Nameless]

Will be interesting to see.

there must be other clubs who have also broken FFP and will do so over the next couple of years. Too late to 'set an example of us' I imagine, and more likely to be a fairly acceptable penalty which will set a standard precedent

the feeling is 6 points - take that all day long.

DOn’t think we could complain at that.
We’d not drop into the relegation zone, and I really don’t think it would put as at risk of ending the season in the bottom 3. Probably make the playoffs out of reach but they were probably not going to be a target this year anyway.
If Pauno is clever he’d use this as a real motivator - challenge the players to go out and win those points back asap