BFTG - Barnsley

[Pepe the Horseman]

Not sure about 2005/06, but I know that we never lined up Hahnemann-Murty-Sonko-Ingimarsson-Shorey-Little-Harper-Sidwell-Convey-Kitson-Doyle in the Premier League. Little missed the opening game and after that we didn’t get him, Kitson, Sonko and Convey all fit until after Sidwell left.

Just checked - they played together six times. The last time was the match against Derby where we were confirmed as Champions.

The same team but with Lita in for Kitson was probably our most common starting XI that season.

It was a pretty consistent first 11:

Sonko 46
Ingarmarsson 46
Convey 45
Hahnemann 45
Harper 44 (+1 subs appearance)
Doyle 41 (+ 4 subs appearances)
Murty 40
Shorey 40
Little 34 (+ 1 sub appearance)
Sidwell 29 (+ 4 sub appearances)
Kitson 27 (+ 7 sub appearances)

So out of a possible 506 starts, those 11 accounted for 437 of them - some 86.4% of the starting line up places for the whole season.

Yeh which makes it even more surprising that they only played together six times.

[Snowflake Royal]

Always seemed a blindingly obvious rule to bring in to me but didn't they try this years ago? Can't remember in what league. Maybe in America?

Prefer a dissent sinbin

Trouble with that is that different refs have different levels of tolorance, it would be really hard to keep it consistent. I play grassroots and have encountered referees who impliment the sin bin rule and some who laugh off players protestations and get on with the game, it just doesn't really work at all in my experience.

That's just the same as some refs blowing up early and often and some refs letting things go. Some refs being card happy and some using their words.

There are two ways the problem gets solved.

Managers and players growing up and learning sportsmanship

Refs growing a pair and dishing out cards.

The players and managers gain an advantage by cheating and trying to influence the officials, so the first isn’t going to happen. And the refs would have to destroy games with dozens of cards and loads of sensing offs for months to get the message through. For which they'd get pelters for ruining games.

The genie is out the bottle and it isn’t going back. But sinbins might help as a tangible punishment without long term consequences.

[Millsy]

I am in favour of the 10 yard dissent rule. I reckon that might happen. Show dissent and move ball forward 10 yards or into opponents half if you are defending.

Always seemed a blindingly obvious rule to bring in to me but didn't they try this years ago? Can't remember in what league. Maybe in America?

It was trialled in one of our cup competitions I think, but hardly used.
I do think refs should have more weapons to deal with it,

Yes the problem is there's no middle ground - you can't just ask players to be more respectful. THere has to be an all or nothing draconian sort of system like the dissent rule or even harsher.

The reason is that we all know that this sort of gesturing and cheating and ref intimidation is part of the game and so HAS to be done just to be on an equal footing with the opposition. You start accepting every decision the ref makes peacefully and without question when the opposition are going ballistic at every decision and you're going to lose out.

FK for any complaint against a ref or linesman at any point, 10 yards if further dissent, escalating to cards. That'd be ideal but it's unlikely to ever happen.

I don't recall a rugby player ever being too shirty with a ref (at international level, I've not watched smaller) so I don't know what the punishment is, if at all. Probably just a different culture.

[Snowflake Royal]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

[bcubed]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'd like a sinbin for all sorts of things.

Yellow cards are not a deterrent. No-one cares if they get one and in a situation where a player is potentially through a defender will have no hesitation in bringing him down. A proper punishment would deter and prevent this happening. If that same defender thought he'd be off for 10 he would at least think twice before making the foul.

And I like the idea of I dressing the time in the bin for back chat

Never going to happen though, for reasons mentioned earlier about the 10 yards rule

[Franchise FC]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'm interested how moving the ball forward 10 yards is unhelpful.

I've stated this many times. If you implement the 10 yards effectively dissent disappears very quickly.

10 yards for dissent or not retreating IMMEDIATELY
If that takes the point of taking into the penalty area it becomes a penalty
Keep arguing/showing dissent and it's a penalty goal

Implement that and it'll only happen once
The biggest impact needs to be at the top level first. Kids follow what they watch either live or on TV. Trying changes on the grass roots is doomed

I'd also add a few 'tweaks' for time wasting.
At a throw in simply give the throw the other way
At a corner, give a goal kick, at a goal kick give a corner
At a free kick, turn the decision around
If a goal is conceded and the team conceding waste time restarting, give the restart to the team scoring

[Sutekh]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'm interested how moving the ball forward 10 yards is unhelpful.

I've stated this many times. If you implement the 10 yards effectively dissent disappears very quickly.

10 yards for dissent or not retreating IMMEDIATELY
If that takes the point of taking into the penalty area it becomes a penalty
Keep arguing/showing dissent and it's a penalty goal

Implement that and it'll only happen once
The biggest impact needs to be at the top level first. Kids follow what they watch either live or on TV. Trying changes on the grass roots is doomed

I'd also add a few 'tweaks' for time wasting.
At a throw in simply give the throw the other way
At a corner, give a goal kick, at a goal kick give a corner
At a free kick, turn the decision around
If a goal is conceded and the team conceding waste time restarting, give the restart to the team scoring

I’d vote for that but perhaps add that the team that wins the free kick should be allowed to choose where to take the free kick from so long as it is within 10 yards of the original location, that should remove those instances where some say it’s actually harder to gain a benefit. Or perhaps have the option to take a free kick quickly while the arguing is going on!

[Snowflake Royal]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'm interested how moving the ball forward 10 yards is unhelpful.

I've stated this many times. If you implement the 10 yards effectively dissent disappears very quickly.

10 yards for dissent or not retreating IMMEDIATELY
If that takes the point of taking into the penalty area it becomes a penalty
Keep arguing/showing dissent and it's a penalty goal

Implement that and it'll only happen once
The biggest impact needs to be at the top level first. Kids follow what they watch either live or on TV. Trying changes on the grass roots is doomed

I'd also add a few 'tweaks' for time wasting.
At a throw in simply give the throw the other way
At a corner, give a goal kick, at a goal kick give a corner
At a free kick, turn the decision around
If a goal is conceded and the team conceding waste time restarting, give the restart to the team scoring

Penalties. Free kicks around the box... you know the ones where it's close enough it's really hard to get the ball up and down.

Fks in the final third out wide.

Fks around your own box.

Fks within 10 yards of the opposition byline.

None of those really achieve anything. The only places it really makes any positive difference is 10 yards forward from about half way, so you can go from not really able to put a ball in the box to putting one in, and about 40 yards, so you go from outside realistic shooting range to inside.

[Nameless]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'm interested how moving the ball forward 10 yards is unhelpful.

I've stated this many times. If you implement the 10 yards effectively dissent disappears very quickly.

10 yards for dissent or not retreating IMMEDIATELY
If that takes the point of taking into the penalty area it becomes a penalty
Keep arguing/showing dissent and it's a penalty goal

Implement that and it'll only happen once
The biggest impact needs to be at the top level first. Kids follow what they watch either live or on TV. Trying changes on the grass roots is doomed

I'd also add a few 'tweaks' for time wasting.
At a throw in simply give the throw the other way
At a corner, give a goal kick, at a goal kick give a corner
At a free kick, turn the decision around
If a goal is conceded and the team conceding waste time restarting, give the restart to the team scoring

Those tweaks ignore the fact that time wasting at a deadball situation can be by either side, to just the one taking the restart.
I think ‘timewasting’ is made too much of anyway, the remedies are already there.. Ref makes it clear the watch is stopped and therefore no advantage is being gained.

[paultheroyal]

Easily solvable though - 10 yards forward at an angle to the centre of the goal. (for those outwide)

For those in the final third - up to 10 yards to where the attacking team want the ball placed.

Penalty is a penalty, tough.

[bcubed]

Thing is, moving the ball 10 yards really doesn’t do a lot in a lot of circumstances. And it slows the game down. In some cases it's actually unhelpful.

Making someone sit out the game for 5 minutes could be managed quite quickly.

Don't go straight off... 10 minutes.

I'm interested how moving the ball forward 10 yards is unhelpful.

I've stated this many times. If you implement the 10 yards effectively dissent disappears very quickly.

10 yards for dissent or not retreating IMMEDIATELY
If that takes the point of taking into the penalty area it becomes a penalty
Keep arguing/showing dissent and it's a penalty goal

Implement that and it'll only happen once
The biggest impact needs to be at the top level first. Kids follow what they watch either live or on TV. Trying changes on the grass roots is doomed

I'd also add a few 'tweaks' for time wasting.
At a throw in simply give the throw the other way
At a corner, give a goal kick, at a goal kick give a corner
At a free kick, turn the decision around
If a goal is conceded and the team conceding waste time restarting, give the restart to the team scoring

I think the point is territorial gain isn't always the be all and end all in football. In rugby it is and that's why it's so effective there

And i cant see that a rule which awards a penalty for dissention that starts outside the box will be agreed. Let alone a penalty goal.

Thoughts on sinbins?

[paultheroyal]

Sin bins would be the way to go for dissent - because player off for 10 minutes and they concede, ultimate punishment, and it would soon stop.

[Snowflake Royal]

Paul's tweak makes it more helpful, but I still think location makes it a penalty of variable effectiveness. More so than the variable effectiveness of a sinbin, where it's only the closing minutes of a match.

I'd probably put in a minimum number of players that have to remain on the pitch and any sin bins beyond that are postponed until earlier ones are complete. For those extreme situations.

I think its also more targetted and personal.

You, get off the pitch is going to mean more to fans, players and managers alike than moving a ball 10 yards.

And of course, as pointed out, a player who has won a fk can be guilty of dissent. What then? Oppositi9n get to move it 10 yards? Nah, just bin him off.

Plus there's the humiliation and cool down effect as a benefit. Sit on the naughty step and think about what you did. Etc.

[Half Time Pizza]

im pretty sure they implemented the 10 yard rule for league and cup games for one season only . Probably around 2004 I think.

Or I may be making it up

[Franchise FC]

im pretty sure they implemented the 10 yard rule for league and cup games for one season only . Probably around 2004 I think.

Or I may be making it up

You’re right, but they insisted the offending player was booked at the same time which seriously slowed the game down which was exactly what the offender wanted.

[bakerlou]

We conceded a goal as a result of the trial, away to Wycombe - we conceded a free-kick, and then gobbed off about the desish, and then the ref moved it forwards 10 yards, and they scored from it.

Will look up the game l8r, it should be on the archive somewhere.

[bakerlou]

We conceded a goal as a result of the trial, away to Wycombe - we conceded a free-kick, and then gobbed off about the desish, and then the ref moved it forwards 10 yards, and they scored from it.

Will look up the game l8r, it should be on the archive somewhere.

https://www.royals.org/matdoc/060301.html

Moved forward 10 yards for not retreating at a free-kick. My only recollection of a dull match.

[Bigtimmeh]

Always seemed a blindingly obvious rule to bring in to me but didn't they try this years ago? Can't remember in what league. Maybe in America?

Prefer a dissent sinbin

Trouble with that is that different refs have different levels of tolorance, it would be really hard to keep it consistent. I play grassroots and have encountered referees who impliment the sin bin rule and some who laugh off players protestations and get on with the game, it just doesn't really work at all in my experience.

I think put a mic on them so you can hear what the ref and players are saying on the TV.. like rugby. Players would soon stop their abuse if it started costing sponsorship money. And it would make the referees more human and relatable

[Millsy]

Good shout, sin bin is actually the best idea.

As long as they don't actually call it the "sin bin", rhymes and all that but just sounds so childish and stupid.

I'd call it "fail jail".

[Mr Optimist]

I think “the naughty step” would be better.