Pauno out

[URZZZZ]

It's no coincidence we improved when he got injured. Holmes and Southwood were a big improvement on him and Cabral.

Using this logic, why is Morrison not on your list considering he was injured almost the same time as Moore and Rafael?

I'm not saying I agree with Ian as I never really shared his dislike for Moore and in our debates I used to blame Morrison more than I did Moore. But the wheels seem to have come off the defence when Moore came back (bar initial clean sheet IIRC) and Morrison stays out injured.

Came back into the side, two successive clean sheets against Cardiff and Barnsley (don’t think that was widely mentioned at the time, as it went against peoples agendas). Leaky since then but far from Moore’s fault

Find the notion of scapegoats rather tiring. Even if Southwood has barely been at fault for any of the goals conceded in the last three, you know if Rafael had conceded 7 goals in 3 games, there’d be a ton of criticism

[Millsy]

Using this logic, why is Morrison not on your list considering he was injured almost the same time as Moore and Rafael?

I'm not saying I agree with Ian as I never really shared his dislike for Moore and in our debates I used to blame Morrison more than I did Moore. But the wheels seem to have come off the defence when Moore came back (bar initial clean sheet IIRC) and Morrison stays out injured.

Came back into the side, two successive clean sheets against Cardiff and Barnsley (don’t think that was widely mentioned at the time, as it went against peoples agendas). Leaky since then but far from Moore’s fault

Find the notion of scapegoats rather tiring. Even if Southwood has barely been at fault for any of the goals conceded in the last three, you know if Rafael had conceded 7 goals in 3 games, there’d be a ton of criticism

I agree, which is why I never really got on Moore's back as I say, and if anything I was pointing to Morro for sometimes standing there OFF the pitch picking his nose as we let in goals.

Having said that sometimes players ARE to blame obviously, as in any profession people dip in and out of form.

It is interesting that we had a new defence, no Moore, no Morro, no Rafael and they were superb. Moore comes back and sooner or later we're back to letting in loads again.

I'd rather blame systems than personnel. Is the defence shitter with Moore because he's got zonal marking ingrained into him whereas the likes of Laurent didn't and so were more likely to do the intuitive thing of actually marking people and keeping the ball out?
Drinkwater has been utter shite since his first game for us, a useless liability who loses stamina after 20mins. But again, is that his fault? Or our insistence that he needs to dick around with the ball out of defence when we're being high pressed by superior teams? So yeah I don't like scapegoats either. I can't believe that players just don't care or don't try. Love or hate Moore the lad definitely cares about the club and his job. He's comes across a decent enough honest fella. Quite unlike the arrogance that the likes of Olise showed for example.

[Hound]

I'm not quite sure what Moore did on that second goal on Saturday. Seemed to just duck his leg down and invite Lowe to place the ball over the top of it into the corner.

Not really sure if it was an error, or whether Southwood's positioning was dodgy (didnt think it was in real time) but it did seem an incredibly simple goal. Main fault was obvs DD getting robbed whilst fannying about on the edge of the D though

[Hound]

Drinkwater has been utter shite since his first game for us, a useless liability who loses stamina after 20mins..

really?

Don't remember him being shite in the games I watched against Boro or Barnsley, and heard good things about him at Cardiff. He was ok vs Derby as well.

I think he was actually pretty decent first half against Bournemouth as well. Blackpool he was rancid mind you.

[Millsy]

I'm not quite sure what Moore did on that second goal on Saturday. Seemed to just duck his leg down and invite Lowe to place the ball over the top of it into the corner.

Not really sure if it was an error, or whether Southwood's positioning was dodgy (didnt think it was in real time) but it did seem an incredibly simple goal. Main fault was obvs DD getting robbed whilst fannying about on the edge of the D though

Southwood's view was blocked by Moore so I don't blame him. He's normally very solid and I think Rafael would struggle with that too.

But IIRC it looked like Moore seemed to be showing Lowe onto his left foot, but obvioiusly not well enough as he just put it onto his right and shot around Moore, who was planted to the spot. A fail by Moore. But he did seem tired to me.

[Brogue]

50 pages up

[Millsy]

Drinkwater has been utter shite since his first game for us, a useless liability who loses stamina after 20mins..

really?

Don't remember him being shite in the games I watched against Boro or Barnsley, and heard good things about him at Cardiff. He was ok vs Derby as well.

I think he was actually pretty decent first half against Bournemouth as well. Blackpool he was rancid mind you.

Blackpool utterly awful.

And how your summary of Bournemouth can be that he had a "decent first half" is beyond me. I don't care what he did first half, when both their goals he had a hand in. First a corner that he conceded and second, probably the biggest howler by any Reading player this season if not this year. Utterly awful.

Higher up the pitch you can be awful for parts of the game and remembered for the good. But in defence it's the other way round. You need to be reliable the whole game. A missed sitter up front is fine. A total ballsup like Drinkwater as defensive midfielder thus conceding a goal and you're nothing short of a liability.

[Hound]

Drinkwater has been utter shite since his first game for us, a useless liability who loses stamina after 20mins..

really?

Don't remember him being shite in the games I watched against Boro or Barnsley, and heard good things about him at Cardiff. He was ok vs Derby as well.

I think he was actually pretty decent first half against Bournemouth as well. Blackpool he was rancid mind you.

Blackpool utterly awful.

And how your summary of Bournemouth can be that he had a "decent first half" is beyond me. I don't care what he did first half, when both their goals he had a hand in. First a corner that he conceded and second, probably the biggest howler by any Reading player this season if not this year. Utterly awful.

Higher up the pitch you can be awful for parts of the game and remembered for the good. But in defence it's the other way round. You need to be reliable the whole game. A missed sitter up front is fine. A total ballsup like Drinkwater as defensive midfielder thus conceding a goal and you're nothing short of a liability.

He was ok first half vs Bournemouth, but yep terrible in the second half, and whilst it was undoubtedly a terrible error, prob beaten by Yiadom's uselessness on Blackpool's penalty. But that doesn't constitute being utterly shite for us except on his debut.

very strange summary regarding it being ok missing a sitter but not making a mistake at the back. Puscas missed volley was prob just as consequential to us losing the match than the DD shambles, maybe even more so considering the score at the time

[Coppells Lost Coat]

I'm not quite sure what Moore did on that second goal on Saturday. Seemed to just duck his leg down and invite Lowe to place the ball over the top of it into the corner.

Not really sure if it was an error, or whether Southwood's positioning was dodgy (didnt think it was in real time) but it did seem an incredibly simple goal. Main fault was obvs DD getting robbed whilst fannying about on the edge of the D though

Southwood's view was blocked by Moore so I don't blame him. He's normally very solid and I think Rafael would struggle with that too.

But IIRC it looked like Moore seemed to be showing Lowe onto his left foot, but obvioiusly not well enough as he just put it onto his right and shot around Moore, who was planted to the spot. A fail by Moore. But he did seem tired to me.

It was a firefighting moment as we stupidly lost possession. Looked like Moore was caught in two minds.
Option 1 - Step up and close down Lowe - but he has got the run on him and he'd would have just to skip around him to be clear on goal
Option 2- stand his ground and jockey him to a less dangerous position.
Moore opted to attempt to jockey but inadvertently showed him onto his right and went for a half hearted block. Southwood was unsighted by Moore and tbh it was a fairly tidy finish.

[Millsy]

very strange summary regarding it being ok missing a sitter but not making a mistake at the back. Puscas missed volley was prob just as consequential to us losing the match than the DD shambles, maybe even more so considering the score at the time

...and look what the opinion is on Puscas. Half of us have called him awful for months. The manager doesn't rate him, even after two very strong games for us he prefers to start academy wingers and has-been wingers instead of him etc etc. He is only playing as we have no other choice so he has already earned the reputation and now the burden of arguments falls on the side of apologetics like me. Note that I also made post dedicated to Puscas' ineptness in the Bournemouth thread for missing two sitters so I don't disagree.

You're right that there are double standards for strikers or defensive players though, it's just that it isn't "very strange" to me anyway. Attacking players make things happen and aren't expected to score every chance. They can even miss sitters. They're expected to try it on and see what happens. If a striker scores one goal but misses three sitters he's fine. It's part of the role. A defending players role is entirely different - they're not expected to do anything special. No heroics required. But one thing that is asked of them is solidity and consistentcy. Being beaten as sometimes happens is fine as that's how goals are scored, but any howlers and that's unacceptable as they've screwed up their number one job.

Give me a striker who runs around scores a few but misses some sitters now and then any day of the week over a defensive player who does 50% good stuff but is a liability for large chunks of the game.

TBF though I think he's just tired and what's being asked of him is wrong, but whatever the reason at the moment he has become shite sadly (in my opinion).

[Snowflake Royal]

Again, has it really though?

I'm looking at this as I was pretty much of the same initial view on Saturday of, oh yep another goal from the back post but in the cold light of day thought want really the case and both my memory and stats suggest it isn't.

Again blaming Moore, who has his faults seems to just be trying to fit a narrative. The goals we have given away, one was a shot from a partial clearance and the other on Saturday, neither really can have blame attached to Moore.

It's no coincidence we improved when he got injured. Holmes and Southwood were a big improvement on him and Cabral.

Using this logic, why is Morrison not on your list considering he was injured almost the same time as Moore and Rafael?

Morrison wasn't as bad as Moore and has previously shown he was one of our best defenders.

My preference would be Holmes and McIntyre, anyway.

[morganb]

According to Exclusives on Twitter, Pauno's gone...





...and caught Covid

https://mobile.twitter.com/ExclusivesFc ... 6211128320

Hearing that Covid is creating havoc in the management team …… including Pauno

[Zip]

According to Exclusives on Twitter, Pauno's gone...





...and caught Covid

https://mobile.twitter.com/ExclusivesFc ... 6211128320

Hearing that Covid is creating havoc in the management team …… including Pauno

Another another to the perfect storm. We are getting relegated aren’t we.

[Notts Royal]

According to Exclusives on Twitter, Pauno's gone...





...and caught Covid

https://mobile.twitter.com/ExclusivesFc ... 6211128320

Hearing that Covid is creating havoc in the management team …… including Pauno

Another another to the perfect storm. We are getting relegated aren’t we.

Might work out for Puscas! Those 2 clearly don’t get on

[under the tin]

I've been watching blokes in Reading shirts make mistakes for over 50 years.
All players make mistakes, they're not machines.
15 games in, 26 goals conceded. Is this solely because player X is better than player Y? This is the way that this thread is going.
I reckon when a defence keeps conceding in a largely similar fashion, the problem is systemic.
Take Bournemouth's first goal.
Reading. All 11 players back.
Corner delivered past the back stick, Cahill makes an unchallenged header back across the goal, Solanke nods in, from 18 inches, unchallenged. Where have we seen that before?
The thing is, on a previous corner, Bournemouth pushed everyone forward, then Parker waved 3 players back after spotting that we had left Puscas and Swift up. No goal.
I'm prepared to bet hard cash that had we done the same the second time around, Mr. Cahill would have been near the halfway line, policing our players, instead of having a wander round the back post.
Everybody back for set pieces. I have never seen a defensive system where so many players can have so little effect on play.
For me, it's the system at fault. The coaches. The manager.

[Pockets]

At the corner we conceded from it looked like Puscas initially stayed out and was calling Swift to join him but Swift was calling him to go back in which he did. Second half corner Puscas was looking at the bench with his arms out as he didn't know what to do. No organisation at all.

[Millsy]

I've been watching blokes in Reading shirts make mistakes for over 50 years.
All players make mistakes, they're not machines.
15 games in, 26 goals conceded. Is this solely because player X is better than player Y? This is the way that this thread is going.
I reckon when a defence keeps conceding in a largely similar fashion, the problem is systemic.
Take Bournemouth's first goal.
Reading. All 11 players back.
Corner delivered past the back stick, Cahill makes an unchallenged header back across the goal, Solanke nods in, from 18 inches, unchallenged. Where have we seen that before?
The thing is, on a previous corner, Bournemouth pushed everyone forward, then Parker waved 3 players back after spotting that we had left Puscas and Swift up. No goal.
I'm prepared to bet hard cash that had we done the same the second time around, Mr. Cahill would have been near the halfway line, policing our players, instead of having a wander round the back post.
Everybody back for set pieces. I have never seen a defensive system where so many players can have so little effect on play.
For me, it's the system at fault. The coaches. The manager.

Good post, I think most of us are blaming the system for any issues but noting players' flaws too. The point of contention is around whether the system/management is overall warts and all good enough or not.

BBCRB were going on about the corner thing and there's probably something to it but I wonder if too much of a big deal is made of it. Like, how doe putting more people in the box make it worse? Ok so you keep a couple of players up the pitch so they don't pile everyone in either but it's still the same numbers each side in the box so I don't see how it makes that much of a difference. Have more players in, and so do they.

To me I think the deeper issue isn't that we put too many in the box per se, but ithat if your answer to our leaky set pieces is something so draconian as havign to pile everyone in the box it suggests a problem with your ability to deal with set pieces. A decent well drilled defence should be able to do deal with set pieces without needing absolutely everyone in I suppose.

[morganb]

Like, how doe putting more people in the box make it worse? Ok so you keep a couple of players up the pitch so they don't pile everyone in either but it's still the same numbers each side in the box so I don't see how it makes that much of a difference. Have more players in, and so do they.

The way I see it is that the issues with having more (too many) people in the box is that if the ball gets cleared out there is nobody there to receive it/launch a counter attack so the opposition simply play it back in (see Blackpool goal) and our players seem to get in the way of each other rather than the opposition, while their players are left unmarked.

Last season Olise used to hare out of the box and chase down any cleared balls, nobody appears to have taken up this role this season.

For the Solanke goal there were 3 of our players on the goal line blocking off Southwood from attempting a dive.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

BBCRB were going on about the corner thing and there's probably something to it but I wonder if too much of a big deal is made of it. Like, how doe putting more people in the box make it worse? Ok so you keep a couple of players up the pitch so they don't pile everyone in either but it's still the same numbers each side in the box so I don't see how it makes that much of a difference. Have more players in, and so do they.

Its if / when we clear. A good clearance would go straight to the opposition who can just pump the ball in again.
Or we try and hang onto the ball in around our area and play our way out. Which does look good, however several players would need to run full length of the pitch and then back again if we lose possession. How many times do you think we can do that in the game, its is simultaneously exhausting our players and inviting huge pressure on the team. Just seems weird.

[Millsy]

Yes I get that, invites pressure on us inevitably.

I just think it shows up how shite our defence is though. We clearly need to be choosing the nuclear option because zonal (or otherwise) systems aren't working. Get that fixed and hopefully we can stop defending like a primary school team again.