MATCHWATCH : Derby County (h)

[karbota]

Thought our midfield went missing in the second half, we couldn't retain possession and barely won any second balls. The pattern of the game meant that Derby were always likely to get one and once they did, we all knew what would happen. A part of me is actually quite pleased we managed to get a point.

As frustrating as it is, I still see it as a point gained rather than 2 points lost given both teams' position before the game, Derby on a good run and ourselves obviously lacking match practice and numbers in our squad. It's telling when you have to bring on a recently turned 18 year old in Camara for our talisman Swift.

Still very much Pauno in, he has been dealt a tough hand all season and I don't think we've had one game where you can say we've had a squad that's 80% available, obviously due to the embargo that prevented us from signing players before the season kicked off and injuries and Covid throughout since. I'm not sure who would do better given our current situation but it's fair to say we need to shift 2/3 players on and pick up 2/3 loanees/freebies that are going to be reliably available week in, week out. A full back, possibly another wide man and an attacking option as well as keeping Carroll on until the end of the season.

A sensible post.

[Millsy]

It’s almost as if some had been unwell for a while, all at the same time, with a disease that does screw up your fitness…

So I do give him some leeway, but not much.

Really? Routine positive testing for covid is a world apart from actually being unwell with it. Young fit lads all being really badly affected by it at the same time. I dunno, it's possible I guess I don't know enough about it. If that is the case then we go back to debating whether it was negligent of the club not to be very strict with Xmas parties etc. Also it's almost crying wolf.

None of them have played q competitive game for about three weeks.

No one expects players to be fully fit on training alone at the start of the season. And if you miss some of that training isolating, and especially with something like a heavy cold or worse, it's entirely believable they aren’t match fit.

Not that I thought they really looked like they lacked fitness for the most part. There were some loose touches and passes, and some leggy stumbling, but they were doing that when playing regularly.

Just sounds like a lazy excuse to me.

Of course but the suggestion is that they were "unwell" "with a disease that does screw up your fitness". Bollocks to that. Some might have been self isolating and found it a little harder to be match fit, although it's only 3 weeks and they're professional footballers with an entire multimillion pound football setup/advice around them ffs.

But also time off from games so relatively rested. I took a break from running for 2 weeks over the Xmas/NY, did nothing but sit around lard up on crap and came back to running and *easily* beat my sprint and endurance targets. Quite well known and expected in the fitness world for short rest to be hugely beneficial. Perhaps they trained too hard in time off? Again - where are the fitness/health experts at the club?????

Agree - lazy excuse.

[Stranded]

It's a lazy excuse because if we had played 3 times over Xmas prior to yesterday and the same thing had happened, then we would have heard the same one.

[Hound]

Really? Routine positive testing for covid is a world apart from actually being unwell with it. Young fit lads all being really badly affected by it at the same time. I dunno, it's possible I guess I don't know enough about it. If that is the case then we go back to debating whether it was negligent of the club not to be very strict with Xmas parties etc. Also it's almost crying wolf.

None of them have played q competitive game for about three weeks.

No one expects players to be fully fit on training alone at the start of the season. And if you miss some of that training isolating, and especially with something like a heavy cold or worse, it's entirely believable they aren’t match fit.

Not that I thought they really looked like they lacked fitness for the most part. There were some loose touches and passes, and some leggy stumbling, but they were doing that when playing regularly.

Just sounds like a lazy excuse to me.

Of course but the suggestion is that they were "unwell" "with a disease that does screw up your fitness". Bollocks to that. Some might have been self isolating and found it a little harder to be match fit, although it's only 3 weeks and they're professional footballers with an entire multimillion pound football setup/advice around them ffs.

But also time off from games so relatively rested. I took a break from running for 2 weeks over the Xmas/NY, did nothing but sit around lard up on crap and came back to running and *easily* beat my sprint and endurance targets. Quite well known and expected in the fitness world for short rest to be hugely beneficial. Perhaps they trained too hard in time off? Again - where are the fitness/health experts at the club?????

Agree - lazy excuse.

Only real thing I can see in terms of fitness would be the players returning from injury, not being able to do the correct rehab/fitness work at home rather than with physios and the correct equipment. I'm very generously putting this down as a possible reason why no Ejaria/Drinkwater etc

As you say, a gentle 7-10 days at home really isn't going to negatively affect fitness levels at this point in the season.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

None of them have played q competitive game for about three weeks.

No one expects players to be fully fit on training alone at the start of the season. And if you miss some of that training isolating, and especially with something like a heavy cold or worse, it's entirely believable they aren’t match fit.

Not that I thought they really looked like they lacked fitness for the most part. There were some loose touches and passes, and some leggy stumbling, but they were doing that when playing regularly.

Just sounds like a lazy excuse to me.

Of course but the suggestion is that they were "unwell" "with a disease that does screw up your fitness". Bollocks to that. Some might have been self isolating and found it a little harder to be match fit, although it's only 3 weeks and they're professional footballers with an entire multimillion pound football setup/advice around them ffs.

But also time off from games so relatively rested. I took a break from running for 2 weeks over the Xmas/NY, did nothing but sit around lard up on crap and came back to running and *easily* beat my sprint and endurance targets. Quite well known and expected in the fitness world for short rest to be hugely beneficial. Perhaps they trained too hard in time off? Again - where are the fitness/health experts at the club?????

Agree - lazy excuse.

Only real thing I can see in terms of fitness would be the players returning from injury, not being able to do the correct rehab/fitness work at home rather than with physios and the correct equipment. I'm very generously putting this down as a possible reason why no Ejaria/Drinkwater etc

As you say, a gentle 7-10 days at home really isn't going to negatively affect fitness levels at this point in the season.

It's probably worth considering that maybe some players weren't able to train effectively (or even at all) depending on the severity of their condition, ultimately we will never know. I can imagine it probably does have a pretty serious adverse effect on players and the team, but as most have said I can't imagine a 3 week break given our situation would be entirely crippling either, but it would be a sensible explanation as to why we were struggling, especially in the last 20 minutes yesterday.

We need to field a strong team against Kidderminster, just to help bolster match fitness and sharpness amongst the group if anything.

[Millsy]

Yeah true our defensive training is usually so effective... if they were able to just train a little more on that zonal bullshit they might have done better....

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The zonal marking hasn't worked for us but for all the set pieces Derby had yesterday, we defended the initial phase well. It was an individual error that lead to their first goal rather than a clear tactical issue.

[Snowflake Royal]

The zonal marking hasn't worked for us but for all the set pieces Derby had yesterday, we defended the initial phase well. It was an individual error that lead to their first goal rather than a clear tactical issue.

Although as Dellor was at pains to point out. There was an earlier chance where their striker got a free header in the middle of the goal on the six yard line. Failure of the zonal marking right there.

Happily he fluffed it over rather than burying it as Kazim probably would have done if he'd been on.

[Hound]

The zonal marking hasn't worked for us but for all the set pieces Derby had yesterday, we defended the initial phase well. It was an individual error that lead to their first goal rather than a clear tactical issue.

Although as Dellor was at pains to point out. There was an earlier chance where their striker got a free header in the middle of the goal on the six yard line. Failure of the zonal marking right there.

Happily he fluffed it over rather than burying it as Kazim probably would have done if he'd been on.

I thought the defending from set pieces was excellent yesterday. Though I do hate not leaving any outside the box on corners still

If thats the header I'm thinking of (from a corner) , it wasn't an easy chance and he never looked like getting on top of it. One of those you see quite often in games

As stated more times than I wish to remember, we man mark as much as we zonal defend at corners anyway.

Not 100% happy with Holmes effort on their second goal either. Not sure what he was trying there

[Franchise FC]

The zonal marking hasn't worked for us but for all the set pieces Derby had yesterday, we defended the initial phase well. It was an individual error that lead to their first goal rather than a clear tactical issue.

Although as Dellor was at pains to point out. There was an earlier chance where their striker got a free header in the middle of the goal on the six yard line. Failure of the zonal marking right there.

Happily he fluffed it over rather than burying it as Kazim probably would have done if he'd been on.

I thought the defending from set pieces was excellent yesterday. Though I do hate not leaving any outside the box on corners still

If thats the header I'm thinking of (from a corner) , it wasn't an easy chance and he never looked like getting on top of it. One of those you see quite often in games

As stated more times than I wish to remember, we man mark as much as we zonal defend at corners anyway.

Not 100% happy with Holmes effort on their second goal either. Not sure what he was trying there

Absolutely. Why not jump with Davies ? He may not have been able to direct the header so we’ll if he was under pressure

[Millsy]

Although as Dellor was at pains to point out. There was an earlier chance where their striker got a free header in the middle of the goal on the six yard line. Failure of the zonal marking right there.

Happily he fluffed it over rather than burying it as Kazim probably would have done if he'd been on.

I thought the defending from set pieces was excellent yesterday. Though I do hate not leaving any outside the box on corners still

If thats the header I'm thinking of (from a corner) , it wasn't an easy chance and he never looked like getting on top of it. One of those you see quite often in games

As stated more times than I wish to remember, we man mark as much as we zonal defend at corners anyway.

Not 100% happy with Holmes effort on their second goal either. Not sure what he was trying there

Absolutely. Why not jump with Davies ? He may not have been able to direct the header so we’ll if he was under pressure

Wow, just seen the replay. Is that a zonal thing? Dunno.

Mark a man and you stay with him, jump when he jumps etc. Zonal and you only focus on the ball, a little oblivious to whomever else around you or what they're doing. If they read the ball quicker than you happen to, you're doomed - perhaps that's what Holmes was doing. Not a defender though, not my place to comment.

Does seem just bad defending from the normally solid Holmes tbh.

[Hound]

Wow, just seen the replay. Is that a zonal thing?

Mark a man and you stay with him, jump when he jumps etc. Zonal and you only focus on the ball, a little oblivious to whomever else around you or what they're doing. If they read the ball quicker than you happen to, you're doomed - perhaps that's what Holmes was doing. .

I assume you are trying to wind me up. If so

Otherwise, what the hell are you talking about

[Millsy]

Wow, just seen the replay. Is that a zonal thing?

Mark a man and you stay with him, jump when he jumps etc. Zonal and you only focus on the ball, a little oblivious to whomever else around you or what they're doing. If they read the ball quicker than you happen to, you're doomed - perhaps that's what Holmes was doing. .

I assume you are trying to wind me up. If so

Otherwise, what the hell are you talking about

No. What part of that do you not understand dude?

It's just a Q, I'm no defender as I say.

It looks as though Holmes sees the ball come in and does absolutely nothing while the striker jumps and scores.

Is that just shit defending or does a zonal system possibly have something to do with it? Genuine Q, not trying to wind anyone up. I don't have views either way on zonal marking I really couldn't care less but trust Adie imore than anyone else here when he says it's rubbish.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Just read the replies, seems I forgot the free header from 6 yards out, yes that was poor really but other than that, I thought we were generally pretty decent set pieces wise considering how poor we usually are.

Davies' goal was just a case of him wanting it more. An early jump made it so he got above Holmes too easily, it was pretty weak defending in truth and he should have done better, both goals were avoidable for sure. I don't think that was anything to do with zonal marking considering it was an open play across. Davies just got above Holmes, a soft goal to concede.

[Hound]

Wow, just seen the replay. Is that a zonal thing?

Mark a man and you stay with him, jump when he jumps etc. Zonal and you only focus on the ball, a little oblivious to whomever else around you or what they're doing. If they read the ball quicker than you happen to, you're doomed - perhaps that's what Holmes was doing. .

I assume you are trying to wind me up. If so

Otherwise, what the hell are you talking about

No. What part of that do you not understand dude?

It's just a Q, I'm no defender as I say.

It looks as though Holmes sees the ball come in and does absolutely nothing while the striker jumps and scores.

Is that just shit defending or does a zonal system possibly have something to do with it? Genuine Q, not trying to wind anyone up. I don't have views either way on zonal marking I really couldn't care less but trust Adie imore than anyone else here when he says it's rubbish.

Trying to blame Zonal marking for not going up for a header...

It is just shit defending. Caught flat footed. It wasn't even a set piece so the whole 'zonal marking is shit' thing doesn't fit anyway. Was a great header tbf

[Millsy]

I assume you are trying to wind me up. If so

Otherwise, what the hell are you talking about

No. What part of that do you not understand dude?

It's just a Q, I'm no defender as I say.

It looks as though Holmes sees the ball come in and does absolutely nothing while the striker jumps and scores.

Is that just shit defending or does a zonal system possibly have something to do with it? Genuine Q, not trying to wind anyone up. I don't have views either way on zonal marking I really couldn't care less but trust Adie imore than anyone else here when he says it's rubbish.

Trying to blame Zonal marking for not going up for a header...

It is just shit defending. Caught flat footed. It wasn't even a set piece so the whole 'zonal marking is shit' thing doesn't fit anyway.

OK thx that's cool, all I wanted to know and yes makes sense I agree. Trouble is I'm too much of a WUM sometimes for my own good!

[Snowflake Royal]

I thought the defending from set pieces was excellent yesterday. Though I do hate not leaving any outside the box on corners still

If thats the header I'm thinking of (from a corner) , it wasn't an easy chance and he never looked like getting on top of it. One of those you see quite often in games

As stated more times than I wish to remember, we man mark as much as we zonal defend at corners anyway.

Not 100% happy with Holmes effort on their second goal either. Not sure what he was trying there

Absolutely. Why not jump with Davies ? He may not have been able to direct the header so we’ll if he was under pressure

Wow, just seen the replay. Is that a zonal thing? Dunno.

Mark a man and you stay with him, jump when he jumps etc. Zonal and you only focus on the ball, a little oblivious to whomever else around you or what they're doing. If they read the ball quicker than you happen to, you're doomed - perhaps that's what Holmes was doing. Not a defender though, not my place to comment.

Does seem just bad defending from the normally solid Holmes tbh.

what are you wittering about zonal for. Holmes is clearly man marking the goalscorer.

He's caught obviously way under the flight of the ball. He's never winning that header and imo he's not going to get up high enough or strong enough to challenge the header at that point. I think he tries to back in to bump him and bend forward to try to gain a foul.

It looks shit, but I think it's mostly an unfortunately timed step that takes him out the game for a perfect cross and great leap.

[John Smith]

As frustrating as it is, I still see it as a point gained rather than 2 points lost

What are you talking about?! We were 2-0 up on 85mins!

[Coppells Lost Coat]

There was a catalog of positional errors in the lead up which then results in Holmes losing / misjudging the flight of the ball. Which allowed Davies to jump unchallenged with an unstoppable header. Fatigue? tired? I dont buy it, they wanted it more than us. I dont like saying we dont have fight in us, but at 2-1 we didn't really up our game.

Reminded me of the draw with Cardiff a few seasons ago. Looking fairly comfortable then suddenly pressure gets turned up and we cracked in the last minutes.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

As frustrating as it is, I still see it as a point gained rather than 2 points lost

What are you talking about?! We were 2-0 up on 85mins!

It is a rather weird comment. At the start of the game, I wouldn't accept a draw.