Who's to blame?

[Dirk Gently]

The Madejski era was the golden period for our football club. We may never see it again. We had a virtually new stadium, a high profile Chairman and a very astute manager. We did show ambition especially paying big money for the likes of Murty, Caskey and Forster. We had the feel of a club very much on the way up.

That has all gone. We have sold all our assets. We are a club on the way down. Looking back Zingarevich was certainly the start of our downturn....although you could argue it began in the summer 2007 when Coppell failed to properly invest in the squad.
The Thais provided a degree of stability but got their pound of flesh in return.

A whole series of poor appointments have followed under the Yongge regime with the appointment of Gourlay proving to be disastrous. We failed to learn from his time at the club and went on another spending splurge having just come out of a transfer embargo in 2019.

So there are a number of parties responsible for where we are now.

honest question… did SSC have a free rein to spend (to what was basically SJMs investment money) with gay abandon back then?


For me, it was the trust put into the untrustworthy Russkies that started the death of everything that we were taking for granted and were quite rightly enjoying that did it for me.

Coppell admitted he had the funds to spend but chose not to do so. It would never have been unlimited funds but he realised we should have strengthened more than we did.
I agree Zingarevich was hugely damaging but the tens of millions spunked away since then cannot be blamed on him.
We have also failed to capitalise on prized assets and in that respect losing Nicky Hammond was damaging too.
Our transfer dealings have in the main been dreadful.

Yep, agree with this, but on of our perenniel problems has been player recruitment. We're not a sexy club, with a long proud history and noisy, packed stands full oif passionate supporters. That's not a criticism, it's a simple fact of who we are.

But it means that potential players don't see us as a good move. In the summer of 2007 we agreed terms with Hibs for Scott Brown as a Sidwell-replacement. He turned us down to go to Celtic. There was also the young Australian lad who we flew over and he went to Celtic also... plus countless other good players who chose other clubs ahead of us. For a young player looking for their first big move, we're not a big city club where the bright lights are, or an established PL team, so it's a real struggle.

[Dirk Gently]

I get it - I get it. It's frustrating. I just think people need to keep things in perspective and appreciate that the whole world of football is a mess at the moment.

Agreed, the whole of football is in a terrible mess.

But it pains me so much that 15 years ago we were publicly held up as an example of a well-run club that did things the right way - and now we're help up as an example of a terriblly run club, deep in debt and knowingly driving a coach and horse through FFP rules.

A Chairman we never see and know virtually nothing about (including what his plans and motives) , phenomenal debt which is increasing all the time, and many of our key assets owned elsewhere doesn't suggest good long-term prospects. I honestly fear for the future of this football club.

[Zip]

honest question… did SSC have a free rein to spend (to what was basically SJMs investment money) with gay abandon back then?


For me, it was the trust put into the untrustworthy Russkies that started the death of everything that we were taking for granted and were quite rightly enjoying that did it for me.

Coppell admitted he had the funds to spend but chose not to do so. It would never have been unlimited funds but he realised we should have strengthened more than we did.
I agree Zingarevich was hugely damaging but the tens of millions spunked away since then cannot be blamed on him.
We have also failed to capitalise on prized assets and in that respect losing Nicky Hammond was damaging too.
Our transfer dealings have in the main been dreadful.

Yep, agree with this, but on of our perenniel problems has been player recruitment. We're not a sexy club, with a long proud history and noisy, packed stands full oif passionate supporters. That's not a criticism, it's a simple fact of who we are.

But it means that potential players don't see us as a good move. In the summer of 2007 we agreed terms with Hibs for Scott Brown as a Sidwell-replacement. He turned us down to go to Celtic. There was also the young Australian lad who we flew over and he went to Celtic also... plus countless other good players who chose other clubs ahead of us. For a young player looking for their first big move, we're not a big city club where the bright lights are, or an established PL team, so it's a real struggle.

I remember Scott Brown saying he didn’t want to sign for a club that would go on to be relegated. It was annoying because we had finished eighth the previous season and had he signed we would almost certainly have stayed up.

[Fox Talbot]

I heard Scott Brown wouldn't get on the plane to come and talk unless he was absolutely guaranteed to be the best paid player.

[Green]

honest question… did SSC have a free rein to spend (to what was basically SJMs investment money) with gay abandon back then?


For me, it was the trust put into the untrustworthy Russkies that started the death of everything that we were taking for granted and were quite rightly enjoying that did it for me.

Coppell admitted he had the funds to spend but chose not to do so. It would never have been unlimited funds but he realised we should have strengthened more than we did.
I agree Zingarevich was hugely damaging but the tens of millions spunked away since then cannot be blamed on him.
We have also failed to capitalise on prized assets and in that respect losing Nicky Hammond was damaging too.
Our transfer dealings have in the main been dreadful.

Yep, agree with this, but on of our perenniel problems has been player recruitment. We're not a sexy club, with a long proud history and noisy, packed stands full oif passionate supporters. That's not a criticism, it's a simple fact of who we are.

But it means that potential players don't see us as a good move. In the summer of 2007 we agreed terms with Hibs for Scott Brown as a Sidwell-replacement. He turned us down to go to Celtic. There was also the young Australian lad who we flew over and he went to Celtic also... plus countless other good players who chose other clubs ahead of us. For a young player looking for their first big move, we're not a big city club where the bright lights are, or an established PL team, so it's a real struggle.

LOL never change, jock.

We're an affluent club in an affluent area a stone's throw from London. Hardly Hereford or Plymouth.

Obviously we can't compete with whatever you've got going on in Leith

[Dirk Gently]

Coppell admitted he had the funds to spend but chose not to do so. It would never have been unlimited funds but he realised we should have strengthened more than we did.
I agree Zingarevich was hugely damaging but the tens of millions spunked away since then cannot be blamed on him.
We have also failed to capitalise on prized assets and in that respect losing Nicky Hammond was damaging too.
Our transfer dealings have in the main been dreadful.

Yep, agree with this, but on of our perenniel problems has been player recruitment. We're not a sexy club, with a long proud history and noisy, packed stands full oif passionate supporters. That's not a criticism, it's a simple fact of who we are.

But it means that potential players don't see us as a good move. In the summer of 2007 we agreed terms with Hibs for Scott Brown as a Sidwell-replacement. He turned us down to go to Celtic. There was also the young Australian lad who we flew over and he went to Celtic also... plus countless other good players who chose other clubs ahead of us. For a young player looking for their first big move, we're not a big city club where the bright lights are, or an established PL team, so it's a real struggle.

LOL never change, jock.

We're an affluent club in an affluent area a stone's throw from London. Hardly Hereford or Plymouth.

Obviously we can't compete with whatever you've got going on in Leith

Who's in Leith? Get with the programme...

[Elm Park Kid]

I get it - I get it. It's frustrating. I just think people need to keep things in perspective and appreciate that the whole world of football is a mess at the moment.

Agreed, the whole of football is in a terrible mess.

But it pains me so much that 15 years ago we were publicly held up as an example of a well-run club that did things the right way - and now we're help up as an example of a terriblly run club, deep in debt and knowingly driving a coach and horse through FFP rules.

A Chairman we never see and know virtually nothing about (including what his plans and motives) , phenomenal debt which is increasing all the time, and many of our key assets owned elsewhere doesn't suggest good long-term prospects. I honestly fear for the future of this football club.

But the Championship has fundamentally changed in the last 15 years. I just don't think people understand how much money is being blown by club owners gambling on promotion. Despite being a financial basket case and breaking all the FFP rules we were barely in the top 10 of money spent or salaries. We built up quite a bit of 'debt' back in 00s to achieve our promotion - but compared to what clubs are willing to plough through now it's peanuts. It's got to the point where it's almost impossible to be a 'well run' Championship club - it's basically an oxymoron. Ok, there are a few examples (Brentford) - but most of the Championship teams that have achieved success have done so by spending huge amounts and getting promoted before FFP kicked in. And for every Bournemouth there's a Derby and Sheffield Wednesday.

[Cureton's Volley]

Ian Royal

[Dirk Gently]

I get it - I get it. It's frustrating. I just think people need to keep things in perspective and appreciate that the whole world of football is a mess at the moment.

Agreed, the whole of football is in a terrible mess.

But it pains me so much that 15 years ago we were publicly held up as an example of a well-run club that did things the right way - and now we're help up as an example of a terriblly run club, deep in debt and knowingly driving a coach and horse through FFP rules.

A Chairman we never see and know virtually nothing about (including what his plans and motives) , phenomenal debt which is increasing all the time, and many of our key assets owned elsewhere doesn't suggest good long-term prospects. I honestly fear for the future of this football club.

But the Championship has fundamentally changed in the last 15 years. I just don't think people understand how much money is being blown by club owners gambling on promotion. Despite being a financial basket case and breaking all the FFP rules we were barely in the top 10 of money spent or salaries. We built up quite a bit of 'debt' back in 00s to achieve our promotion - but compared to what clubs are willing to plough through now it's peanuts. It's got to the point where it's almost impossible to be a 'well run' Championship club - it's basically an oxymoron. Ok, there are a few examples (Brentford) - but most of the Championship teams that have achieved success have done so by spending huge amounts and getting promoted before FFP kicked in. And for every Bournemouth there's a Derby and Sheffield Wednesday.

No significant arguments with that - except the scale with which we've overspent has dwarfed the other clubs (except Derby). There are degrees of "well-run" and "badly-run", and we're off the end of the "badly-run" scale.