Injuries: new setup needed at the club?

[Snowflake Royal]

There's a few things been said about rushing players back. And also about set backs and recovery times. In some cases potentially as if these contradict each other.

They could be the same thing though. Just that with some players the set backs come before they actually make it on the pitch and because they are pushed to far too soon in a return to training.

We already know that with Moore there has been a tendency to patch up rather than fix, with him having surgery for his shoulder delayed and delayed.

[Hound]

There's a few things been said about rushing players back. And also about set backs and recovery times. In some cases potentially as if these contradict each other.

They could be the same thing though. Just that with some players the set backs come before they actually make it on the pitch and because they are pushed to far too soon in a return to training.

We already know that with Moore there has been a tendency to patch up rather than fix, with him having surgery for his shoulder delayed and delayed.

Could be. Moore's a slightly different case generally. He is the one where his injuries seem to nearly always be impact injuries, and he often recovers very quickly, and actually often ahead of when you'd expect him. Which makes his current absence all the more intriguing.

Reckon there is a whole wealth of things. Players not being pushed hard enough in training before playing could be as much the cause as being brought back too quick. Recent suggestions that players aren't looking after themselves as professionally as they should be. Players like McIntyre and Morrison dont even seem to be making it back to the training ground before having setbacks. Araruna was the same.

Those cases along with Rino suggest it might be the initial diagnosis/surgery/recovery that is been the issue.

The players just haven't looked especially fit this year - lots of late goals conceded and often look dead on their feet in tough games.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I also think it's a multitude of factors as well. Seen it plastered around articles, potentially the manager ignoring medical advice, potentially an inadequate medical team in some cases, potentially the manager's training methods, potentially risking injured players because of injuries to others players that's leading to even more injuries mounting up etc.

There is a point that it needs to land on someone's head and we to take control/responsibility with this area of the club the best we can. It's not easy when it could be down to multiple factors however. Obviously the manager will take the flack for it on the surface, somewhat justifiably so. I don't think Pauno should be replaced because of the injuries, but it's also another mark out of his favour as we didn't have this severity of injuries, during his tenure, under many other managers that I can think of. It's difficult from the outside to pinpoint the root cause, but it's not covering the manager in glory either.

[Hound]

obvious point but the number of injuries and quality of player is absolutely insane. For all of Pauno's poor tactics at times, currently missing or likely to be missing for the next game;

Moore, Dann, McIntyre, Morrison, Baba
Yiadom, Tetek, Ejaria, Halilovic
Joao, Meite,

Ashcroft, Araruna, Azeez

Thats actually a half decent champ side itself. No team in the division could cope with that really. Absolutely need to sort this out. Scarcely believable from the outside that a squad with Yiadom, Baba, Moore, Dann, Ejaria, Laurent, Swift, Drinkwater, Meite, Joao, Puscas and Carroll could go down.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Fatigue is a big factor with getting injuries too. With the injury list piling up players aren't really getting much rotation.
So the cycle continues, the squad just keep playing until some one gets back from injury or they get injured themselves due to not having the rest.

Maybe the training methods have not been adapted to suit our insane injury list. VP doesn't want to risk players in training / push them hard in fear of losing a player. Last thing we need right now is a bloody training injury. Which then means they wont get 'match fit' = play with fatigue = gets injured.

[Zip]

obvious point but the number of injuries and quality of player is absolutely insane. For all of Pauno's poor tactics at times, currently missing or likely to be missing for the next game;

Moore, Dann, McIntyre, Morrison, Baba
Yiadom, Tetek, Ejaria, Halilovic
Joao, Meite,

Ashcroft, Araruna, Azeez

Thats actually a half decent champ side itself. No team in the division could cope with that really. Absolutely need to sort this out. Scarcely believable from the outside that a squad with Yiadom, Baba, Moore, Dann, Ejaria, Laurent, Swift, Drinkwater, Meite, Joao, Puscas and Carroll could go down.

It’s depressing. The injury crisis just doesn’t let up. It has played a massive part in our struggles and I found myself defending Pauno on the bus back to Mereoak on a Tuesday night with one raging old boy who was blaming him for everything.

It has been the season from hell. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong and you know how it’s going to end.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

obvious point but the number of injuries and quality of player is absolutely insane. For all of Pauno's poor tactics at times, currently missing or likely to be missing for the next game;

Moore, Dann, McIntyre, Morrison, Baba
Yiadom, Tetek, Ejaria, Halilovic
Joao, Meite,

Ashcroft, Araruna, Azeez

Thats actually a half decent champ side itself. No team in the division could cope with that really. Absolutely need to sort this out. Scarcely believable from the outside that a squad with Yiadom, Baba, Moore, Dann, Ejaria, Laurent, Swift, Drinkwater, Meite, Joao, Puscas and Carroll could go down.

It’s depressing. The injury crisis just doesn’t let up. It has played a massive part in our struggles and I found myself defending Pauno on the bus back to Mereoak on a Tuesday night with one raging old boy who was blaming him for everything.

It has been the season from hell. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong and you know how it’s going to end.

Hopefully it doesn't get that far.

Whether he is in charge or not, Pauno himself did say earlier this month that February might be the month that the club can really kick on as the injury list shortens and we can start to bring most of our players back at one time, of course it doesn't help when people like Dann and Tetek go off with injuries and just add to the list.

[John Smith]

Someone on here must know the physio personally. Come on and tell us what the real reasons are for all these injuries.

[Snowflake Royal]

Comes a point you have to stop blaming luck.

Our injury record hasn't been great for a long time. But it's now been thoroughly abysmal for about 4 months with little sign of let up.

Players are still going out as quickly as they come back. We're still getting delays and set backs.

Luck doesn’t skew this heavily for this sustained a period.

We HAVE to be doing something wrong to contribute to this. Most likely We're doing many things wrong.

[Zip]

Comes a point you have to stop blaming luck.

Our injury record hasn't been great for a long time. But it's now been thoroughly abysmal for about 4 months with little sign of let up.

Players are still going out as quickly as they come back. We're still getting delays and set backs.

Luck doesn’t skew this heavily for this sustained a period.

We HAVE to be doing something wrong to contribute to this. Most likely We're doing many things wrong.

Without doubt. Something isn’t right. We are getting more and more soft tissue injuries which suggests conditioning problems. The non injured players are also running out of steam early in the second half which in many ways is the biggest concern.

[PATRIQT]

In the US Pauno was criticised for his intense training and he wouldn't tolerate any nonsense from his players. You put 100% in or you were out of the team. If he's that hardcore then it would explain plenty of strains and pulls.

Plus, players conveniently pick up strains when they're not happy with their manager...

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I can imagine his methods do play some part in this, but I don't think it's the only factor and I don't actually think it's the main factor either, I still feel most of the responsibility lies within the physio/sports science department.

At the end of the day it won't change under Pauno, it's his style. If he's been criticised before and is doing now, it can only point to his methods but he won't change it as he will completely lose the dressing room that way. It would also explain our good start last season and why players spoke as highly as they did as they were possibly being "underworked" by Bowen in comparison perhaps but now we are seeing the other side to this.

I think the only way this changes now is changing the manager. Bad luck has happened, but it's been happening for too long. Some injuries are bad luck, particularly impact injuries, but muscle injuries can potentially be preventable you'd imagine.

[Hound]

Fatigue is a big factor with getting injuries too. With the injury list piling up players aren't really getting much rotation.
So the cycle continues, the squad just keep playing until some one gets back from injury or they get injured themselves due to not having the rest.

Maybe the training methods have not been adapted to suit our insane injury list. VP doesn't want to risk players in training / push them hard in fear of losing a player. Last thing we need right now is a bloody training injury. Which then means they wont get 'match fit' = play with fatigue = gets injured.

tbf they've just had 3 weeks off, and within 2 games we lost Araruna - but more tellingly Dann (after 5 mins), AH (after 60+40mins) and Azeez . Don't think can blame fatigue for any of those seeming muscle injuries

[Zip]

Fatigue is a big factor with getting injuries too. With the injury list piling up players aren't really getting much rotation.
So the cycle continues, the squad just keep playing until some one gets back from injury or they get injured themselves due to not having the rest.

Maybe the training methods have not been adapted to suit our insane injury list. VP doesn't want to risk players in training / push them hard in fear of losing a player. Last thing we need right now is a bloody training injury. Which then means they wont get 'match fit' = play with fatigue = gets injured.

tbf they've just had 3 weeks off, and within 2 games we lost Araruna - but more tellingly Dann (after 5 mins), AH (after 60+40mins) and Azeez . Don't think can blame fatigue for any of those seeming muscle injuries

We lost Tetek too. Five players in two games.

[Brogue]

Coincidence I’m sure. But this has seem to come since we’ve moved to bearwood. Has the soil been compacted too much as it was previously a golf course? Is the ground too firm?

[Hound]

Coincidence I’m sure. But this has seem to come since we’ve moved to bearwood. Has the souls been compacted too much as it was previously a golf course? Is the ground too firm?

Never know. It could be something along those lines however strange it sounds

[Snowflake Royal]

In the US Pauno was criticised for his intense training and he wouldn't tolerate any nonsense from his players. You put 100% in or you were out of the team. If he's that hardcore then it would explain plenty of strains and pulls.

Plus, players conveniently pick up strains when they're not happy with their manager...

I did wonder whether Dann just didn’t fancy it. But it was 0-0 and less than 5 mins in!

You'd just pull up in the warm up.
, or wait for at least 20 mins on the clock.

[72 bus]

In the 84th minute each game. What’s the point?

well he came on for 30 mins against Derby.

And the original question was ' a few minutes of gameplay'. So yes fits the description pretty well.

And to add - Clarke has done naff all in his cameo appearances to suggest he is the answer to our injury crisis.

Apart from scoring twice in one game.
Clarke 10 Apps 2 Goals
Puskás 21 Apps 0 goals

[CountryRoyal]

It’s not a surprise that when a team is doing badly injuries surprisingly rack up. No one wants to play in a losing side.

Not saying that’s the cases for all of them (obviously), but wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of them were available if we were top of the league and playing well.

[Millsy]

My ‘inside knowledge’ prompting this has NOTHING to do with Pauno as the problem predates him, but undeniably it’s much worse now. Worse than I ever imagined when originally moaning about it so it’s clearly several things going on.

I’m seeing a picture here that marries up a few factors…

Pauno has had bursts of phenomenal team form and Both these bursts have been early on: last season it was at the beginning. This season it’s when he got a bunch of new players in.

Given the alleged concerns that he overtrains his players from Chicago fans (I’ve yet to see this tbh but trust those who have) it’s all fitting together:

It explains decent form when relatively fresh and then mayhem as players get injured, especially coupled with an already unfit-for-purpose setup who weren’t expecting it. It explains players being utterly destroyed end of second half thus 3 late capitulations thus far.

Was it under Bowen where we were the opposite and were scoring many at the end of the game, heroic comebacks and wins, and that was put down to decent fitness?

I think/know our setup has been shite. But highly suspect Pauno’s and his coaches aren’t helping at all.

Is he a one trick pony with a game plan and motivation boost that works well if everyone has infinite fitness levels? But has no plan B, no tactical nous mid game etc etc in that case what do you do? Keep trying to do what you’re good at. Force whomever is left fit to do wonders..until they then get injured. Maybe, but it shouldn’t detract from a problem that predates him. He’s not the only problem here, it’s just highlighting our underlying issues.

Still, I’m sure many will still believe the line that it’s coincidence, impact injuries, no worse than usual etc…