MATCHWATCH : Barnsley (a)

[Hound]

People again complaining on twitter how much we're celebrating a goal. Get fucked.

Hendo you really are better than worrying about what gets said on Twitter

It’s an absolute cess pit of the worst that humanity has to offer

[stealthpapes]

Very belated back from the game (quite literally correct, I took a weekend to the Yorkshire coast).

You can go a long way in the Championship with a structure, commitment and pace. The second half of that game proved it, again.

Barnsley were pish and pretty petty with it, lots of niggly fouls and play acting. Genuinely feared for them gumming the game up in the second half but we built momentum and made it pay. At one point, I thought we might nick it but a hard won draw that definitely suits us more than them.

Didn't have a pint but did have a lovely day trip on the Penistone line. Arf!

[stealthpapes]

Just seen the last gasp chance for Barnsley, it was no big deal, Tom mac was just where he should have been with a routine block, it wasn`t as if he had to throw himself in from of the player.

yeah, the odd angle from the away end made it look much more dangerous than it was.

their goal on the other hand was some air-headed defending being punished.

[LUX]

Didn't have a pint

no Green either then?

[stealthpapes]

Didn't have a pint

no Green either then?

no. we had a brief text chat about Goole but that was it.

Had a pint of Wold Top Headland Red in Bridlington that he'd have liked.

[Millsy]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

Having watched the video again, you’re right. McIntyre is pulled inside to cover the runner from midfield and that creates room for the man outside him. Not McIntyre’s fault, Holmes created the situation.

I’m no more qualified than you are to comment on defensive shapes (suspect everything I know about football could be taught in a crash-course weekend) but you’ll notice Morrison starts to step up and then eases off when he sees how hard Holmes has committed. Given how far over the defence is, I think Morrison should have been the one tracking the striker and Holmes should have dropped. A hole between Holmes and Yiadom wouldn’t have been as dangerous.

In Holmes’ defence:
- he’s young (duh, but also, so what?)
- he’s playing on the opposite side to what he’s used to - might have reacted instinctively thinking he was the right sided centre back
- due to his size, aggression is often the right decision, and he’ll usually be partnered with someone more mobile or tactical who can cover for him. Morrison is not an ideal partner for him.

It’s definitely Holmes’ mistake, you’re right. I think he needs to improve his positioning. The right set-up might cover his deficiencies (Cooper at Millwall) but right now we don’t have that. He has generally been performing well lately imo but if you’re responsible for most goals being conceded it becomes reasonable to ask questions.

Forgot to reply to this sorry.

Thanks SCIAG, good points made.

[Millsy]

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

Having watched the video again, you’re right. McIntyre is pulled inside to cover the runner from midfield and that creates room for the man outside him. Not McIntyre’s fault, Holmes created the situation.

I’m no more qualified than you are to comment on defensive shapes (suspect everything I know about football could be taught in a crash-course weekend) but you’ll notice Morrison starts to step up and then eases off when he sees how hard Holmes has committed. Given how far over the defence is, I think Morrison should have been the one tracking the striker and Holmes should have dropped. A hole between Holmes and Yiadom wouldn’t have been as dangerous.

In Holmes’ defence:
- he’s young (duh, but also, so what?)
- he’s playing on the opposite side to what he’s used to - might have reacted instinctively thinking he was the right sided centre back
- due to his size, aggression is often the right decision, and he’ll usually be partnered with someone more mobile or tactical who can cover for him. Morrison is not an ideal partner for him.

It’s definitely Holmes’ mistake, you’re right. I think he needs to improve his positioning. The right set-up might cover his deficiencies (Cooper at Millwall) but right now we don’t have that. He has generally been performing well lately imo but if you’re responsible for most goals being conceded it becomes reasonable to ask questions.

It's a problem caused by a lack of cover.

Iirc Swift loses the ball, so we're not in defensive shape.

When you have a turnover, and a striker drop deep you need one of these things to happen:

1) midfielder drops to pick up striker, defence holds shape
2) centreback steps up, midfielder drops in to cover, LB holds position
3) centeback steps up, LB tucks inside to cover, midfielder drops into LB to cover
4) centreback steps up, LB tucks inside to cover, left winger drops to cover LB.


What we actually got was:

Centreback steps forward, LB tucks in to cover, midfield and left wing are no where.

I'm not sure Centreback and LB hold position and allow easy possession in front of them and a run and shot at goal is any better. And that's the consequence of the only other option to Holmes and McIntyre. Maybe Morro could and should go and that would solve. Would need to look again

Makes LB and CB look at fault, but imo the problem is further forward. I think this is true of a lot of our goals conceded. The defence has to lose shape to cover and midfield fails to protect them.

Thanks Ian, good points.

[Millsy]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

I'm not putting it down to Holmes because I don't think it's wrong to go and pressure the forward in that scenario, they just worked the overload out wide and if he doesn't step in, their forward turns 20 yards from goal. Statistically speaking, a forward will have a better chance of scoring centrally, 20 yards from goal as opposed to where Morris was. I don't put blame on the goalkeeper either really, it was a good finish. It did seem to take a while to go in, but he's put it near enough in the first square of netting in the far corner, not many goalkeepers at this standard save it to be fair. I don't think I'd pinpoint a couple of individuals, more a collective defensive effort could have stopped the goal there. You could say McIntyre could have been closer to Morris for the shot, but I wouldn't place blame on him for that when it could have been prevented elsewhere.

In the first half, I didn't think Holmes was particularly great. It's not that he did anything wrong, but sometimes failed to get a proper initial contact on the ball, such as a header, whereas someone like Dann who is slightly taller and stronger with more experience may well have done. It was just better for us that the scrappy bits between Morris and Holmes throughout never materialised and we were able to pick up the 2nd balls or recover the ball quickly from those situations. Morris proved to be a bit of a handful for him, but he did ok in general, but I can see why you'd say you don't think he's that great, he's certainly not what he was last season, such is the case with most players in fairness.

Excuse late reply, good points here also.

I don't want to knock Holmes, Reading lad, want him to succeed and I'm sure he will. TMac had a dodgy game last season where he didn't track a player, was rested and came back stronger. I'd like them both to succeed.