Rival Watch

[John Smith]

Agree with the views on Bury. They always struck me as a decent club who never seemed to be badly run.
As soon as they hit trouble nothing was done to help them

Without knowing enough of the finer details, how was it allowed to happen? In layman's terms? And how come no one has gone after Steve Dale? Surely he'd be lynched if it were another club? People must see him knocking about in Tesco etc.

[Winston Biscuit]

apols if already covered, but when do we next find out if we come out of the transfer embargo thing we are under? or are we deffo in for this transfer window?

[URZZZZ]

Division looks very weak to me this year tbh

Wba/Norwich/Watford in the mix for the top spots I’d say but everyone else look nothing special at all. Absolutely nothing to be afraid of

Don’t think it’s been particularly strong for a while, last season as an example, thought Forest were particularly average aside from a couple of key players and they weren’t far off autos

Unless you have the distinct quality to play your way out of the league (effectively Fulham and Norwich alternating each other season) or stand out players (Sarr for Watford as an example), it’s a very workmanlike division. Hence Luton and Huddersfield finishing 6th and 3rd respectively last season with us 21st. It’s hard to argue any of those sides has better teams on paper but as we all know, that amounts to nothing!

Forest used the loan market very well. That Garner chap will be in demand and Spence obviously as well

Think that’s often a key part as well. We can loan in 5 - we need to make sure they all add quality. We seem to get the odd gem (Miazga, Martinez) but too often they just seem to add bulk to the squad - ie Drinkwater, TDB, Esteves, Semedo, Baba, Hein etc. All useful but not players who raise the overall standard

Agreed but on the flip side, for every Miazga, Martinez, Baker etc, there’s Oxford, Virginia and Mutch!

Spence surprised me, didn’t think he was much cop at Boro - guess it highlights the value of correctly utilising players

[Hendo]

apols if already covered, but when do we next find out if we come out of the transfer embargo thing we are under? or are we deffo in for this transfer window?

I don't think it is a full-on embargo we're under, more of a supervision from EFL regarding any signings we do make.

I do believe it does apply to this season as well though, but shouldn't next season.

[Winston Biscuit]

apols if already covered, but when do we next find out if we come out of the transfer embargo thing we are under? or are we deffo in for this transfer window?

I don't think it is a full-on embargo we're under, more of a supervision from EFL regarding any signings we do make.

I do believe it does apply to this season as well though, but shouldn't next season.

its the 1 year only £8500 a week thing though, right?

[Hendo]

apols if already covered, but when do we next find out if we come out of the transfer embargo thing we are under? or are we deffo in for this transfer window?

I don't think it is a full-on embargo we're under, more of a supervision from EFL regarding any signings we do make.

I do believe it does apply to this season as well though, but shouldn't next season.

its the 1 year only £8500 a week thing though, right?

Something like that I think.

[Nameless]

I don't think it is a full-on embargo we're under, more of a supervision from EFL regarding any signings we do make.

I do believe it does apply to this season as well though, but shouldn't next season.

its the 1 year only £8500 a week thing though, right?

Something like that I think.

The agreement with the EFL does run to the end of 22-23 season.
There is nothing in the published agreement that limits us to 1 year contracts.
Wages are restricted to ‘an agreed average figure’ but we don’t know what that figure is.
There are clauses which suggest we can do most normal transfer business in theory but it hasn’t to be within our £16 million wage cap and has to be agreed with the EFL.
Much will depend on whether we are keeping to the business plan, and given the suspended points haven’t been activated it’s highly likely we are on track.
Even if we free up money by selling that probably wouldn’t change the salary cap.

[Hound]

If we are free from restrictions at the end of this season, not sure how we can be limited to 1 year deals tbh. Otherwise it’s affecting our ability to retain players then

[Zip]

apols if already covered, but when do we next find out if we come out of the transfer embargo thing we are under? or are we deffo in for this transfer window?

Think it applies for 2022/23 and provided we comply we are free of an embargo for season 2023/24.

[Zip]

Agree with the views on Bury. They always struck me as a decent club who never seemed to be badly run.
As soon as they hit trouble nothing was done to help them

Without knowing enough of the finer details, how was it allowed to happen? In layman's terms? And how come no one has gone after Steve Dale? Surely he'd be lynched if it were another club? People must see him knocking about in Tesco etc.

Just reading up on it now. A complete mess. The EFL seemed to put in place incredibly tight constraints for any deals to be done to save the club. They have been far more lenient with Derby.

[paultheroyal]

Derby are just under 3 hours away from being liquidated. Yep, its that bad.

There only hope now is Mike Ashley. But he does not want to deal with the administrators and will pounce when the axe falls.

Derby are in an utter dire situation now.

[From Despair To Where?]

Agree with the views on Bury. They always struck me as a decent club who never seemed to be badly run.
As soon as they hit trouble nothing was done to help them

Bury's total debt was somewhere in the region of £9m. A significant amount for a League 2 club but dwarfed by the figures talked about with Derby .

Its hard to understand why no-one stepped in, the risks are so much lower.

[Mr Angry]

Agree with the views on Bury. They always struck me as a decent club who never seemed to be badly run.
As soon as they hit trouble nothing was done to help them

Bury's total debt was somewhere in the region of £9m. A significant amount for a League 2 club but dwarfed by the figures talked about with Derby .

Its hard to understand why no-one stepped in, the risks are so much lower.

The reality is, sad to say, that nobody who could have stepped in to save Bury cared enough to do so.

They were another mediocre team, playing in the lower reaches of the football pyramid, one of nearly a dozen all within a 20 mile radius of each other............

Not saying that was a good thing, just saying what the reality was.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Agree with the views on Bury. They always struck me as a decent club who never seemed to be badly run.
As soon as they hit trouble nothing was done to help them

Bury's total debt was somewhere in the region of £9m. A significant amount for a League 2 club but dwarfed by the figures talked about with Derby .

Its hard to understand why no-one stepped in, the risks are so much lower.

The reality is, sad to say, that nobody who could have stepped in to save Bury cared enough to do so.

They were another mediocre team, playing in the lower reaches of the football pyramid, one of nearly a dozen all within a 20 mile radius of each other............

Not saying that was a good thing, just saying what the reality was.

Yeah £9m is a fair sum for a club that were never likely to make it near the riches of the Premier League without significant investment, there may have been some billionaire owner available at the time, but that interest to take them to next level to compete was going to be limited.

As mentioned, there are a lot of clubs in the Manchester-Cheshire district, some of which are better off than them, even when competing in similar leagues. Seen a lot of clubs in that region fall away drastically when you think of Bury, Stockport, Macclesfield and I believe there are question marks of Rochdale's long-term future as well.

[From Despair To Where?]

But then factor in the due diligence done on Steve Dale by the EFL. IIRC, he was allowed to proceed with the take over without proof of funding.

The EFL seriously dropped the ball.

[Snowflake Royal]

Presumably the EFL only step in towards the end, given they're not the ones making a sale, they're just approving for the purpose of being in the league.

[PATRIQT]

Presumably the EFL only step in towards the end, given they're not the ones making a sale, they're just approving for the purpose of being in the league.

And to ensure Derby can prove they can continue trading. That's what did Bury in the end; they ran out of money. Derby have very limited money remaining, so it's definitely squeaky bum time at Pride Park!

[Franchise FC]

It does feel as if Derby have been given multiple chances due to the stature of the club going a founder member.

Bury were expelled when a takeover collapsed. By 5pm today Derby will essentially be in the same position. Consistency would also see them expelled.

It won't happen and expect them to finally exit admin toward the end if the month under Mike Ashley and a 15 point deduction.

If he sticks by the £28M he is quoted as offering (including £20M to Mel Morris for the purchase of the stadium which I suspect is all that Ashley really wants) that would mean HMRC getting something like 15p in the £ for what Derby owe us tax payers; that is a disgrace, and frankly they should be allowed to go out of business.

This was on the BBC website:

"American businessman Chris Kirchner has been given until 17:00 BST on Friday to provide evidence that he can complete the purchase of Derby County.

In the meantime, the club's administrators "have taken the decision to engage with other interested parties as a contingency measure".

The sale and purchase agreement with Kirchner remains in place but will be off if Friday's deadline is not met."

Details of what debts there are include:

"Figures from Quantuma last month showed that HM Revenue and Customs' total claim for unpaid taxes has risen to £36m from £28m.

The club also owes finance company MSD £24m, while Quantuma themselves accumulated costs of £2.1m in the first six months of administration."

(I am pretty sure they still owe Arsenal £8M for a player, and another £2M for other players.......)

This is truly scandalous; Derby announced a profit in 2019 only after selling Pride Park stadium to owner Mel Morris for £80m. Where has that money gone? Of course, it never existed........thats why they got their 9 point deduction for effectively cooking the books, which is why Wycombe are suing them, and why Morris is asking "only" £20M for the stadium..........

Selling the ground to MM simply reduced the amount owed to him at that point, if I understand the position correctly.
No cash position change, but loans reduced (Balance Sheet) whilst P&L improved
Happy to have that position clarified if anyone knows more detail

[windermereROYAL]

Well the Derby takeover is now dead in the water but the EFL are giving them the 328th chance of getting a deal over the line.

Bury would like a word.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Well the Derby takeover is now dead in the water but the EFL are giving them the 328th chance of getting a deal over the line.

Bury would’ve liked the chance of some palm-greasing.

corrected for you etc etc