Joao to West Brom nonsense.

[South Coast Royal]

On the point about lazy, the irony is that we have had a lot of black midfield players in recent times but it was often Swift who (wrongly IMHO) was often described as lazy.

We couldn't have such an extreme contrast of strikers currently in Long and Joao.
Long runs a lot and harries defenders but is not the most skilful and doesn't have a great scoring record.
Joao doesn't run a lot, doesn't harry defenders much but is skilful and has a very good scoring record.

There aren't too many that can do the lot; Rush and Vardy come to mind but not many others.

[Hendo]

On the point about lazy, the irony is that we have had a lot of black midfield players in recent times but it was often Swift who (wrongly IMHO) was often described as lazy.

We couldn't have such an extreme contrast of strikers currently in Long and Joao.
Long runs a lot and harries defenders but is not the most skilful and doesn't have a great scoring record.
Joao doesn't run a lot, doesn't harry defenders much but is skilful and has a very good scoring record.

There aren't too many that can do the lot; Rush and Vardy come to mind but not many others.

Doyle would spring to mind for someone of a recent Reading past that could do everything, Kitson as well, although maybe not as much as Doyle.

[Royal Rother]

On the point about lazy, the irony is that we have had a lot of black midfield players in recent times but it was often Swift who (wrongly IMHO) was often described as lazy.

God yes, I remember Ian being vitriolic in his condemnation of Swift as a lazy waster.

[Royal Rother]

You have to wonder about the issue of black players being much more likely to be labelled lazy or disruptive, don't you.

@stranded, if you're looking at which of the midfield 3 get dropped for a different loanee the answer right mow can only be Hendrick.

No you don't have to worry about an issue with black players being labelled lazy. If Joao had shown half the willingness of Loum or Fornah or indeed Yiadom and Hoilett we would not be having this debate about him.
Why do feel the need to bring race into it?

Because its well established that black players are more often slated for being lazy than white players.

And there's no justifiable reason for complaining about Joao being lazy and disruptive when he contributes something like a goal every other game, and as Hound said, no one complains about him being lazy when he scores.

This was interesting: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=186499&p=4874913&hilit=lazy+swift#p4874913

I'm returning to me original opinion of Joao - lazy. Thought Bowen might give him some va-va-voom, but apparently not. Baldock and Meite upfront from now on please.

[Snowflake Royal]

How desperate do you have to be to go searching 3 or 4 years of posts to find a one off angry reaction and another one.

Since then, I've seen the research and I'm much more careful of being aware of it.

And it seems Vic disproves the point with regard to me there, by showing I said similar about Swift, who isn’t black.

You need a little more self reflection on this and a little less attack Rother.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Take it as a compliment Ian

It takes a lot to catch you out…..





Anyways…wrttop, my club ‘insider’ says it won’t happen.

[Vision]

Some mitigating factors for Joao on Saturday.

He's still not 100% fit . By Ince's admission he's played more minutes in both games than he'd have liked him to do.

He's come back from his injury ahead of expectations which would suggest to me he's pretty committed to the cause.

Mainly though , he came into an entirely different situation on Saturday than in midweek V Blackburn. The team were still pressing then and there were people in and around Joao to play off of and close down in tandem ( hence Fornah's work for Joao's goal ). On Saturday he was completely isolated both in and out of possession. the only way he could contribute in possession would be balls into his feet where he could could keep it until someone got close to him. Instead we were just bombing the ball at head height where the very best he could do would be to win a flick on header to absolutely nobody. On a hiding to nothing there really and it wasn't like we were retaining possession before he got on the field.

As for closing down, he was once again being asked to do this completely in isolation. Long had Ince helping him out and occasionally one of Fornah/Hendrick/Loum. Only Ince might have the fitness levels to be completely chasing across the Boro back 3 in the manner people seem to want.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Yet another succinct and accurate post V

[mikey0406]

We would still be foolish to turn down £7-£10 million in our state. The rolling three years FFP would look better on the sale and IF Zahore was part of the deal it could be a good deal all round.

I really don’t want to lose Joao but we need to learn from previous errors. Anyone who thinks we will stay cautious when this 3 year spell is up needs to give their head a wobble

[Orion1871]

We would still be foolish to turn down £7-£10 million in our state. The rolling three years FFP would look better on the sale and IF Zahore was part of the deal it could be a good deal all round.

I really don’t want to lose Joao but we need to learn from previous errors. Anyone who thinks we will stay cautious when this 3 year spell is up needs to give their head a wobble

No, it wouldn't.

[Hound]

Wba fans seem to be of the impression they are skint anyway

[From Despair To Where?]

Let's be honest, when Moore leaves next summer, we'll have enough cap space to fund a coup in a moderately unstable Central American country.

[Nameless]

Let's be honest, when Moore leaves next summer, we'll have enough cap space to fund a coup in a moderately unstable Central American country.

Certain posters would go ballistic if instead of signing a striker we took over Venezuela.
How that would work under FFP regulations I dread to imagine, although the oil income would be handy.

[From Despair To Where?]

I'd like to know Caracas_Royal's view.

[Snowflake Royal]

Some mitigating factors for Joao on Saturday.

He's still not 100% fit . By Ince's admission he's played more minutes in both games than he'd have liked him to do.

He's come back from his injury ahead of expectations which would suggest to me he's pretty committed to the cause.

Mainly though , he came into an entirely different situation on Saturday than in midweek V Blackburn. The team were still pressing then and there were people in and around Joao to play off of and close down in tandem ( hence Fornah's work for Joao's goal ). On Saturday he was completely isolated both in and out of possession. the only way he could contribute in possession would be balls into his feet where he could could keep it until someone got close to him. Instead we were just bombing the ball at head height where the very best he could do would be to win a flick on header to absolutely nobody. On a hiding to nothing there really and it wasn't like we were retaining possession before he got on the field.

As for closing down, he was once again being asked to do this completely in isolation. Long had Ince helping him out and occasionally one of Fornah/Hendrick/Loum. Only Ince might have the fitness levels to be completely chasing across the Boro back 3 in the manner people seem to want.

Voice of reason as always. Better put than my attempts, but exactly my thoughts.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Let's be honest, when Moore leaves next summer, we'll have enough cap space to fund a coup in a moderately unstable Central American country.

Certain posters would go ballistic if instead of signing a striker we took over Venezuela.
How that would work under FFP regulations I dread to imagine, although the oil income would be handy.

Potentially mean Venezuelan national team would will be at our disposal as well? Seems a fairly good argument to look down this avenue.

[From Despair To Where?]

Install Liam Moore as de facto president.

[South Coast Royal]

On the point about lazy, the irony is that we have had a lot of black midfield players in recent times but it was often Swift who (wrongly IMHO) was often described as lazy.

We couldn't have such an extreme contrast of strikers currently in Long and Joao.
Long runs a lot and harries defenders but is not the most skilful and doesn't have a great scoring record.
Joao doesn't run a lot, doesn't harry defenders much but is skilful and has a very good scoring record.

There aren't too many that can do the lot; Rush and Vardy come to mind but not many others.

Doyle would spring to mind for someone of a recent Reading past that could do everything, Kitson as well, although maybe not as much as Doyle.

Sadly "recent" is starting to feel like quite a long time ago.

[Stranded]

Install Liam Moore as de facto president.

That's just your answer to everything.

[Royal Rother]

How desperate do you have to be to go searching 3 or 4 years of posts to find a one off angry reaction and another one.

Since then, I've seen the research and I'm much more careful of being aware of it.

And it seems Vic disproves the point with regard to me there, by showing I said similar about Swift, who isn’t black.

You need a little more self reflection on this and a little less attack Rother.

That's rich accusing me of being on the attack. Perhaps a little more self-awareness on your part would be appropriate seeing as it was YOUR implication that anyone suggesting Joao was lazy was being inherently racist which is a pretty scummy thing to do.

Using the search function it took literally 1 minute to find your old post - which was clearly not a one-off as you suggest as you said you were returning to your original opinion of him.

Good for you doing your research - if you feel comfortable calling out white players like Drinkwater and Swift for being lazy (and many other things in Drinkwater's case) that's absolutely fine of course.