Joao to West Brom nonsense.

[Royal_jimmy]

If we are 15 points clear in January of the bottom 3 and Fenerbahce offered us £3m would you take it? Or reject it but João goes on a free in the summer

[skipper]

As for warching videos, I imagine Joao's immediate response would be to queue up Long's miss and say, 'I'd have buried that gaffer'. And he'd be right.

Would've bet a large, large sum of money that Joao scores Long's chance v Millwall last weekend.

You're a braver man than me.

Https://youtu.be/m2A1-aKgAgI

[Royal Rother]

How stupid would it be to show him 2 minutes of Shane Running around !
Joao would (rightly) put on a video of the goals he has scored since he joined and asked Ince why Shane can’t do that….

And Ince would (rightly) say in response "Look pal, it ain't all about you having glory moments when things fall into place for you - there's no place in professional football for shirkers and arm wavers - and you are both. And you seriously want to call into question Shane Long's attributes, a guy whose played best part of a decade in the Premier League and for his country, and has never failed to give 100%? Get the hell outta here before I shove your video up your arse."

Do you SERIOUSLY not understand how demoralising and debilitating it is having someone on your team who is not prepared to put the same amount of effort in as everyone else and then appears to blame everyone else when things don't go his way?

Jeez.

Jeez indeed! Your one-man bandwagon is bloody tiresome

If you can find one single instance of a player confirming your rabid hatred I will be amazed, rather than just keep projecting your own (ridiculous) opinion onto other people

Oh, but it’s not a one man bandwagon, oddly a good number of other intelligent folk have expressed similar thoughts.

And, not that I’ve heard them myself, but 3 {three} Reading legends seem to have reached exasperation point on BBCRB. That’s the only 3 they have on there. But obviously we can dismiss Karacan’s opinion because he used to go around kicking people. Maybe Glen Little rates him.

My rabid hatred? Love that. Not sure how a player would be able to confirm it though.

As I posted a week or so back....

Tony Cascarino on Bruno Fernandes:

‘There is not much players dislike more than a team-mate who spends as much time as Fernandes does throwing his arms around in frustration — it’s disrespectful to your colleagues.“

What I’ve been saying for the last 2 years.

He played a game or 2 at a decent level - he gets it even if you don’t.

While I think of it, was Long’s miss last week as bad as the series of horror misses from Joao that cost us a place in the play offs a couple of seasons ago?

Edit, ah thanks Skipper, that was the main one I was thinking of.

[Hendo]

As for warching videos, I imagine Joao's immediate response would be to queue up Long's miss and say, 'I'd have buried that gaffer'. And he'd be right.

Would've bet a large, large sum of money that Joao scores Long's chance v Millwall last weekend.

You're a braver man than me.

Https://youtu.be/m2A1-aKgAgI

Exception that proves the rules, I’m afraid

[Hound]

Don’t get the need to constantly criticise any one player

Joao has a terrific record with us, but he also has a record of blowing hot and cold

Don’t need a long memory to recall his 10 goals last year - without which we’d be playing div1 this year.

If he ran round Tom Ince style all game it’d prob effect the other areas of his game where we need him - his composure in front of goal

It looks rubbish when we lose but he isn’t lazy. He’s a big chap with a poor injury record who probably needs to look after himself in a slightly different way to Long or Ince

[Nameless]

I think it was actually Karacan who said 2 minutes after Joao went off and Long came on that Ince should sit Joao down and show him the video of the contrast between the 2 because after those 2 minutes Long had put more effort in than Joao had in the entire game.

I am just pleased that everyone else is starting to wake up.

Well, not everyone of course, but Reading legends like Mr Gooding, Mr Williams and Mr Karacan, who must have played 1500+ games in the professional game, and never failed to put in 100% for the team.

How stupid would it be to show him 2 minutes of Shane Running around !
Joao would (rightly) put on a video of the goals he has scored since he joined and asked Ince why Shane can’t do that….

And Ince would (rightly) say in response "Look pal, it ain't all about you having glory moments when things fall into place for you - there's no place in professional football for shirkers and arm wavers - and you are both. And you seriously want to call into question Shane Long's attributes, a guy whose played best part of a decade in the Premier League and for his country, and has never failed to give 100%? Get the hell outta here before I shove your video up your arse."

Do you SERIOUSLY not understand how demoralising and debilitating it is having someone on your team who is not prepared to put the same amount of effort in as everyone else and then appears to blame everyone else when things don't go his way?

Jeez.

Thanks.
You’ve proved my point nicely.
Showing one player a video of someone who is a completely different type of player would be pointless.
While Joao is a frustrating player at times to ignore the unique talent he is seems wilfully daft.
Shane would be a better player if he could regularly magic goals out of nothing, but it’s not going to happen. Joao is not suddenly going to become a workhorse, and if he did it would probably take huge amounts of the good stuff he contributes.
Joao is undoubtably not firing at the moment for whatever reason, I don’t think that justifies some people deciding he’s not worth his place in the squad.

[Snowflake Royal]

Nevermind everyone. Rother is just more intelligent than us, so we should just accept what he says.

[Nameless]

Nevermind everyone. Rother is just more intelligent than us, so we should just accept what he says.

Much prefer the concept of ‘discussion’ to be observed.
I disagree with Rother, but I'm happy to discuss our differences.
We stray into dodgy areas if we accuse others of wanting to impose their views and not allowing others to express a difference.

[Snowflake Royal]

Nevermind everyone. Rother is just more intelligent than us, so we should just accept what he says.

Much prefer the concept of ‘discussion’ to be observed.
I disagree with Rother, but I'm happy to discuss our differences.
We stray into dodgy areas if we accuse others of wanting to impose their views and not allowing others to express a difference.

I think we stray into dodgy areas when we try to make appeals to authority based on superior intelligence personally.

[Franchise FC]

Just a small point, but if Joao ran around like Long AND scored the number of goals he does he would not be at our club, and probably would never have been

[morganb]

If João's style of play was so bad why would West Brom and Fenerbahce want to buy him off of us even after Bowen has said he isn't for sale? Probably down to the number of goals he scores not his body language and work rate.

Did teams come in for any of our other players this window? Now Swift has gone I guess João is our most saleable asset

[Nameless]

Nevermind everyone. Rother is just more intelligent than us, so we should just accept what he says.

Much prefer the concept of ‘discussion’ to be observed.
I disagree with Rother, but I'm happy to discuss our differences.
We stray into dodgy areas if we accuse others of wanting to impose their views and not allowing others to express a difference.

I think we stray into dodgy areas when we try to make appeals to authority based on superior intelligence personally.

I’m guessing Rother once made a quip about his IQ ?

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Its all well and good when he is scoring goals but that wont last forever. If players are running through walls to get a draw / get back into a game or hang onto a lead and see Joao not, players will question it. If players are constantly covering him and he is not scoring what happens?
On the flip side I have a feeling Ince has told Joao to not run around too much and let the rest of the team do that.
I dont buy the whole he is not fit - he has only played 200 minutes over 4 games - he seemed fit enough during the Blackburn game when it was all going his way but then has people excusing him as he is unfit 2 games later when the going got tough.

Ultimately, he is our best goal scorer and main attacking threat. You need a goal scorer on the pitch to be with in a shot of winning games. Personally, i wouldn't have been to upset if he left and we got in a suitable replacement to replace his goals and is the right fit.

[traff]

If we are 15 points clear in January of the bottom 3 and Fenerbahce offered us £3m would you take it? Or reject it but João goes on a free in the summer

Would he not be able to sign for them on a free in January and join in the summer?

[Stranded]

Apparently Fenerbache are looking at a deal for Batshuayi following the breakdown of his move to Forest, so may be moving on from Joao.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If we are 15 points clear in January of the bottom 3 and Fenerbahce offered us £3m would you take it? Or reject it but João goes on a free in the summer

If we were able to sign an adequate replacement, either with a fee or a free transfer, then yes I probably would. Unfortunately, that option might not be available because I imagine a free agent striker who would be seen as a suitable replacement for Joao would already be at a club by that time, Andre Gray for example.

I'm not sure £3m would make such a significant difference to us, but I suppose it's better than nothing, but it's also not worth risking relegation for as we'd lose more than that I'd imagine dropping down a division.

I also agree with the point being made around clubs better than us wouldn't be that interested in signing him if he wasn't capable. Joao is one of those players that you build around because of his quality, he's a goalscorer. He doesn't run around like Long does, but that's not his game, if you play to his strengths in a 46 game season (assuming he plays them all), he will hit 20+ goals in a season, which is what most clubs gunning for promotion in this division would want.

[Uke]

João's a modern day Colin Gordon

[Sutekh]

João's a modern day Colin Gordon

[Royal Rother]

How stupid would it be to show him 2 minutes of Shane Running around !
Joao would (rightly) put on a video of the goals he has scored since he joined and asked Ince why Shane can’t do that….

And Ince would (rightly) say in response "Look pal, it ain't all about you having glory moments when things fall into place for you - there's no place in professional football for shirkers and arm wavers - and you are both. And you seriously want to call into question Shane Long's attributes, a guy whose played best part of a decade in the Premier League and for his country, and has never failed to give 100%? Get the hell outta here before I shove your video up your arse."

Do you SERIOUSLY not understand how demoralising and debilitating it is having someone on your team who is not prepared to put the same amount of effort in as everyone else and then appears to blame everyone else when things don't go his way?

Jeez.

Thanks.
You’ve proved my point nicely.
Showing one player a video of someone who is a completely different type of player would be pointless.
While Joao is a frustrating player at times to ignore the unique talent he is seems wilfully daft.
Shane would be a better player if he could regularly magic goals out of nothing, but it’s not going to happen. Joao is not suddenly going to become a workhorse, and if he did it would probably take huge amounts of the good stuff he contributes.
Joao is undoubtably not firing at the moment for whatever reason, I don’t think that justifies some people deciding he’s not worth his place in the squad.

Thing is, we've all seen it - when a team harries and gets in the face of the opposition from the get go, it forces the opposition out of their comfort zone, it forces mistakes, hurried clearances etc. It even works against the very best as we've seen with Man City and Liverpool already this season. More so the lower you go down the football ladder.

Chasing down a keeper when seemingly a lost cause means they don't have the same amount of time to pick a pass - even the very best with the ball at their feet in Ederson and Alison get caught out on occasions. You just can't let the opposition stay in their comfort zone - you have to force them to do something more quickly than they would like - it changes the picture so everyone else on the pitch is slightly hurried in what they are doing. Same applies to defenders - get onto them quickly and force them to do something quickly.

All this starts from the front. If your striker isn't prepared / able to pressurise, at least to some extent, from 1 to 90, everything is more relaxed for the opposition and, throughout the game, they remain more in control of that ever-evolving picture so the chances of turning over possession are reduced. In games of pretty small margins and momentum I believe this stuff is really important.

It is guaranteed that Joao will have good spells and score a decent number of goals - more than anyone else in the team over a whole season - because he is clearly the most talented at sticking the ball in the net. But for me, he's just too passive and that (plus his moodiness) outweighs the tag of top goal scorer.

Just my opinion - which I keep expressing in different ways!

[Nameless]

And Ince would (rightly) say in response "Look pal, it ain't all about you having glory moments when things fall into place for you - there's no place in professional football for shirkers and arm wavers - and you are both. And you seriously want to call into question Shane Long's attributes, a guy whose played best part of a decade in the Premier League and for his country, and has never failed to give 100%? Get the hell outta here before I shove your video up your arse."

Do you SERIOUSLY not understand how demoralising and debilitating it is having someone on your team who is not prepared to put the same amount of effort in as everyone else and then appears to blame everyone else when things don't go his way?

Jeez.

Thanks.
You’ve proved my point nicely.
Showing one player a video of someone who is a completely different type of player would be pointless.
While Joao is a frustrating player at times to ignore the unique talent he is seems wilfully daft.
Shane would be a better player if he could regularly magic goals out of nothing, but it’s not going to happen. Joao is not suddenly going to become a workhorse, and if he did it would probably take huge amounts of the good stuff he contributes.
Joao is undoubtably not firing at the moment for whatever reason, I don’t think that justifies some people deciding he’s not worth his place in the squad.

Thing is, we've all seen it - when a team harries and gets in the face of the opposition from the get go, it forces the opposition out of their comfort zone, it forces mistakes, hurried clearances etc. It even works against the very best as we've seen with Man City and Liverpool already this season. More so the lower you go down the football ladder.

Chasing down a keeper when seemingly a lost cause means they don't have the same amount of time to pick a pass - even the very best with the ball at their feet in Ederson and Alison get caught out on occasions. You just can't let the opposition stay in their comfort zone - you have to force them to do something more quickly than they would like - it changes the picture so everyone else on the pitch is slightly hurried in what they are doing. Same applies to defenders - get onto them quickly and force them to do something quickly.

All this starts from the front. If your striker isn't prepared / able to pressurise, at least to some extent, from 1 to 90, everything is more relaxed for the opposition and, throughout the game, they remain more in control of that ever-evolving picture so the chances of turning over possession are reduced. In games of pretty small margins and momentum I believe this stuff is really important.

It is guaranteed that Joao will have good spells and score a decent number of goals - more than anyone else in the team over a whole season - because he is clearly the most talented at sticking the ball in the net. But for me, he's just too passive and that (plus his moodiness) outweighs the tag of top goal scorer.

Just my opinion - which I keep expressing in different ways!

Would be interesting to look at how many of Joao's goals were scored Joao, assisted Joao. i suspect in the past he has got us goals we simply would not have scored with anyone else up front. That's a very direct points return. It's big margins, as opposed to small margins. How many points would we have been up if he chased a bit more ? Hard to quantify. MAybe we have the ideal pair now, wind Shane up for an hour and run the opposition ragged (but maybe not score many goals) then send Joao on to tuck the ball in the net.
It's just my opinion, although that's me being polite becasue I'm actually right