Rival Watch

[blythspartan]

Laurent playing the 1 in a 3-1-4-2 according to BBC?

Really not gone well for last years midfield has it? DD still not club and the others 9 points or more below and I expect all with different managers to the one who signed them very soon

Yeah I agree about last year’s midfield, although still plenty of time for things to turn around. I am still not sure if they were just not very good or if it was down to poor management/coaching or a bit of both.

For several years we had a team on paper who should have supposedly been much better but were mostly disappointing. Anyway, I am enjoying watching the current team and the camaraderie amongst the players.

[Snowflake Royal]

Neither of them have exactly gone into teams on the up other.

More a case of sideways moves for money.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Neither of them have exactly gone into teams on the up other.

More a case of sideways moves for money.

Would say it was seen as a marked improvement on ourselves for all 3 of the midfielders who have left. Stoke, Cardiff and particularly West Brom would all have been expecting to be better than us this season (they still all might be).

I just don't think they worked too well as a trio. Perhaps they should have done, but that part comes down to management i.e. Laurent sitting when that's not his strength, Rino looking to break forward when that's not his strength etc. The other parts are they just weren't that good, bar Swift, but you had to compliment Swift with midfielders that would do the ugly side. Rino and Laurent, typical to where their clubs are now, are just mid table-bottom half players at this level. Good players, nothing more.

[Snowflake Royal]

Neither of them have exactly gone into teams on the up other.

More a case of sideways moves for money.

Would say it was seen as a marked improvement on ourselves for all 3 of the midfielders who have left. Stoke, Cardiff and particularly West Brom would all have been expecting to be better than us this season (they still all might be).

I just don't think they worked too well as a trio. Perhaps they should have done, but that part comes down to management i.e. Laurent sitting when that's not his strength, Rino looking to break forward when that's not his strength etc. The other parts are they just weren't that good, bar Swift, but you had to compliment Swift with midfielders that would do the ugly side. Rino and Laurent, typical to where their clubs are now, are just mid table-bottom half players at this level. Good players, nothing more.

Wasn't really thinking of Swift.

Don't think anyone would really give Stoke or Cardiff a strong chance of top six pre-season. Likely to be mid-table rather than a relegation fav, sure.

[Franchise FC]

Neither of them have exactly gone into teams on the up other.

More a case of sideways moves for money.

Would say it was seen as a marked improvement on ourselves for all 3 of the midfielders who have left. Stoke, Cardiff and particularly West Brom would all have been expecting to be better than us this season (they still all might be).

I just don't think they worked too well as a trio. Perhaps they should have done, but that part comes down to management i.e. Laurent sitting when that's not his strength, Rino looking to break forward when that's not his strength etc. The other parts are they just weren't that good, bar Swift, but you had to compliment Swift with midfielders that would do the ugly side. Rino and Laurent, typical to where their clubs are now, are just mid table-bottom half players at this level. Good players, nothing more.

Wasn't really thinking of Swift.

Don't think anyone would really give Stoke or Cardiff a strong chance of top six pre-season. Likely to be mid-table rather than a relegation fav, sure.

I’m sure I wasn’t alone thinking all three had gone to places where they were likely to be above us

[Ascotexgunner]

Would say it was seen as a marked improvement on ourselves for all 3 of the midfielders who have left. Stoke, Cardiff and particularly West Brom would all have been expecting to be better than us this season (they still all might be).

I just don't think they worked too well as a trio. Perhaps they should have done, but that part comes down to management i.e. Laurent sitting when that's not his strength, Rino looking to break forward when that's not his strength etc. The other parts are they just weren't that good, bar Swift, but you had to compliment Swift with midfielders that would do the ugly side. Rino and Laurent, typical to where their clubs are now, are just mid table-bottom half players at this level. Good players, nothing more.

Wasn't really thinking of Swift.

Don't think anyone would really give Stoke or Cardiff a strong chance of top six pre-season. Likely to be mid-table rather than a relegation fav, sure.

I’m sure I wasn’t alone thinking all three had gone to places where they were likely to be above us

You certainly aren't. You just wonder if we overrated these players. Swift was a luxury player we all loved and relied on, but when you look at Ince who has taken the 10 role, he works so damn hard compared to Swift....then you come to the other 2., Rinomhota and Laurent, why is it that they showed such great talent in spurts, yet seemed unable to defend or dominate....especially when we needed them in games. I thought they were all going to be big stars at their new clubs but when you think about it....tell me would you swap Ince, Hendrick, Fornah, Loume for any of them?

[Snowflake Royal]

Football's often about the right set up and people around you as much as individual talent.

We all know Swift had bags of talent... but he was also an up and down player dogged by injuries. That can take it's toll. He was never the quickest and he did have a habit of over playing at times.

Rino was always a good water carrier doing the ugly and simple stuff in the middle third. Not convincing in the final third.

Laurent an athletic box to box player.

All of them can contribute to good teams in the Championship. But, all of them will struggle in dysfunctional teams or without the right players around them. Same as most good Champ players.

I'd absolutely consider taking any one of them over any one of the players you mention except Ince, right now. Fornah's been good, after a slow start. Loum has had a couple of exceptional games and some pretty poor ones. Hendrick has been consistently ok, really. Hendrick is the only one who has played all our matches and that's only 11. Our current crop is working out pretty good and could easily surpass them. But I'm much more confident in know what I'd get from Swift, Rinomhota or Laurent over a season that those three, yet.

[From Despair To Where?]

I think the problem with Swift, Rino and Laurent is, that there was very little overlap in their skill set. If one had an off day, it didn't work.

I'd certainly take Ince over any of them, the bloke's a machine; workrate, creativity, set pieces delivery and he's an absolute leader on the pitch

[Hound]

Tbh we over rated them as well. Swift added very little outside of the goals and assists, while we gave Laurent and Rino a lot of slack because they were good blokes/academy product

In reality Laurent was very average for 18 months before picking up at the end of last year and Rino much the same

All 3 have ability but large flaws in their game - Swift defensive side and inconsistency, Laurent positional discipline and quality on the ball, Rino no real position, general quality on the ball not a DM but not offering a lot going forward either

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think I'd still take Swift just due to individual quality and he could win a game on his own. I wouldn't take him over Ince per say, but alongside. If I had to lose one midfielder to replace Swift with, it would probably be Fornah. That's nothing against him, just who I'd change, Fornah has had a decent season so far.

As mentioned though, it's all about who works best collectively, which Ince, Hendrick, Fornah and Loum (any in a 3) all do so far.

[paultheroyal]

Football's often about the right set up and people around you as much as individual talent.

We all know Swift had bags of talent... but he was also an up and down player dogged by injuries. That can take it's toll. He was never the quickest and he did have a habit of over playing at times.

Rino was always a good water carrier doing the ugly and simple stuff in the middle third. Not convincing in the final third.

Laurent an athletic box to box player.

All of them can contribute to good teams in the Championship. But, all of them will struggle in dysfunctional teams or without the right players around them. Same as most good Champ players.

I'd absolutely consider taking any one of them over any one of the players you mention except Ince, right now. Fornah's been good, after a slow start. Loum has had a couple of exceptional games and some pretty poor ones. Hendrick has been consistently ok, really. Hendrick is the only one who has played all our matches and that's only 11. Our current crop is working out pretty good and could easily surpass them. But I'm much more confident in know what I'd get from Swift, Rinomhota or Laurent over a season that those three, yet.

So - a midfield 3 who time and time again fail to deliver and put us in the bottom half of the table, when a number of good observers would say "actually, just maybe they are not very good, run around alot but not very good" - you would welcome them back with open arms and replace with our current midfield, working their socks off, sitting third in the league" - sometimes, i am lost for words, this time, well, i am done.

[Zip]

I wouldn't have any of them back.
None are missed
Swift was technically excellent but so poor on the defensive side of the game. He often wasn't prepared to put a tackle in.

Laurent looked good in his first season but was very sloppy at times last season.

I did like Rino but how good is he in reality? He works hard but is a limited player.

I would take Fornah and Ince over all three of them and probably Loum too.

[morganb]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63116336

Chris Wilder: Middlesbrough sack manager with club in Championship bottom three

(Doubt he'll be out of work for long)

[Sutekh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63116336

Chris Wilder: Middlesbrough sack manager with club in Championship bottom three

(Doubt he'll be out of work for long)

No, next stop probably WBA…..

[Brum Royal]

Looking at the BBC table, the bottom 8 sides (Stoke in 17th downwards), have won a combined 6 out of 40 matches (it may be worse than that but BBC only lists the last 5 on the table form guide)

Played 40 Won 6 Drawn 9 Lost 25

[Snowflake Royal]

Football's often about the right set up and people around you as much as individual talent.

We all know Swift had bags of talent... but he was also an up and down player dogged by injuries. That can take it's toll. He was never the quickest and he did have a habit of over playing at times.

Rino was always a good water carrier doing the ugly and simple stuff in the middle third. Not convincing in the final third.

Laurent an athletic box to box player.

All of them can contribute to good teams in the Championship. But, all of them will struggle in dysfunctional teams or without the right players around them. Same as most good Champ players.

I'd absolutely consider taking any one of them over any one of the players you mention except Ince, right now. Fornah's been good, after a slow start. Loum has had a couple of exceptional games and some pretty poor ones. Hendrick has been consistently ok, really. Hendrick is the only one who has played all our matches and that's only 11. Our current crop is working out pretty good and could easily surpass them. But I'm much more confident in know what I'd get from Swift, Rinomhota or Laurent over a season that those three, yet.

So - a midfield 3 who time and time again fail to deliver and put us in the bottom half of the table, when a number of good observers would say "actually, just maybe they are not very good, run around alot but not very good" - you would welcome them back with open arms and replace with our current midfield, working their socks off, sitting third in the league" - sometimes, i am lost for words, this time, well, i am done.

Yeah, you didn't really understand what you read did you. Nevermind.

[Nameless]

Looking at the BBC table, the bottom 8 sides (Stoke in 17th downwards), have won a combined 6 out of 40 matches (it may be worse than that but BBC only lists the last 5 on the table form guide)

Played 40 Won 6 Drawn 9 Lost 25

4 of the bottom 8 have each won 3 games. The league table gives you the number of wins right there in front of you !
And given we’ve played 11 games how could the bottom 8 have only played 40....

[Snowflake Royal]

Looking at the BBC table, the bottom 8 sides (Stoke in 17th downwards), have won a combined 6 out of 40 matches (it may be worse than that but BBC only lists the last 5 on the table form guide)

Played 40 Won 6 Drawn 9 Lost 25

4 of the bottom 8 have each won 3 games. The league table gives you the number of wins right there in front of you !
And given we’ve played 11 games how could the bottom 8 have only played 40....

Because his numbers come from the form section. 5x8=40.

It may be worse than that = proportionally it may be worse if you include all games.

[paultheroyal]

Football's often about the right set up and people around you as much as individual talent.

We all know Swift had bags of talent... but he was also an up and down player dogged by injuries. That can take it's toll. He was never the quickest and he did have a habit of over playing at times.

Rino was always a good water carrier doing the ugly and simple stuff in the middle third. Not convincing in the final third.

Laurent an athletic box to box player.

All of them can contribute to good teams in the Championship. But, all of them will struggle in dysfunctional teams or without the right players around them. Same as most good Champ players.

I'd absolutely consider taking any one of them over any one of the players you mention except Ince, right now. Fornah's been good, after a slow start. Loum has had a couple of exceptional games and some pretty poor ones. Hendrick has been consistently ok, really. Hendrick is the only one who has played all our matches and that's only 11. Our current crop is working out pretty good and could easily surpass them. But I'm much more confident in know what I'd get from Swift, Rinomhota or Laurent over a season that those three, yet.

So - a midfield 3 who time and time again fail to deliver and put us in the bottom half of the table, when a number of good observers would say "actually, just maybe they are not very good, run around alot but not very good" - you would welcome them back with open arms and replace with our current midfield, working their socks off, sitting third in the league" - sometimes, i am lost for words, this time, well, i am done.

Yeah, you didn't really understand what you read did you. Nevermind.

All i need to know...

I'd absolutely consider taking any one of them over any one of the players you mention except Ince, right now.

[Brum Royal]

Looking at the BBC table, the bottom 8 sides (Stoke in 17th downwards), have won a combined 6 out of 40 matches (it may be worse than that but BBC only lists the last 5 on the table form guide)

Played 40 Won 6 Drawn 9 Lost 25

4 of the bottom 8 have each won 3 games. The league table gives you the number of wins right there in front of you !
And given we’ve played 11 games how could the bottom 8 have only played 40....

Because his numbers come from the form section. 5x8=40.

It may be worse than that = proportionally it may be worse if you include all games.

Yes, sorry, should have added the all important word "last" to provide context. "It may be worse than that" was an indication that I'd not actually done the equivalent sum of the overall season.

Bottom 8 overall
Last 5 matches for each side (ie "form"): 6 wins from 40 played = win % of 15%
Season long: 18 wins from 95 played = win & of 19%

Where I was starting to go with that, before posting previously without making an actual point, is that it appears the bottom 8 are getting progressively worse, and that we should start to realign our expectations further up the table in terms of "rivals". Though I am still of the mindset of get to 50 points ASAP and see where the season goes from there.