PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

[AthleticoSpizz]

Whatever Pince has (or has not) achieved, it still doesn’t make Parky up to speed for us…sadly, some might say.

I think his past managerial achievements at Bradford, Bolton, Colchester, and now Wrexham proves he is a winner, he deserves the chance.

Bololton?

[Zip]

I think his past managerial achievements at Bradford, Bolton, Colchester, and now Wrexham proves he is a winner, he deserves the chance.

What has he achieved at Wrexham?

2 nd place in the National League.

Wembley Final in the Fa Trophy.

And with an all-British team!

And that's only after his first season at Wrexham, we've gotta make the bid soon.

So he hasn't achieved anything there then

[fred sharpes nose]

Ince stated his preferred formation is 4-2-3-1we didn't have the players early on to play this system so we went with 5 at the back. Its not pretty but it worked and got us a better start than expected.
Now we have a serious injury crisis within the defensive unit but the rest of the squad is pretty much back to almost full strength.
This should be the ideal time to switch back to our preferred formation of 4-2-3-1, nope, we're now playing players out of position to stick with this 5 at the back.
Hoilett and Baba are clearly not wing backs, Yids isn't a centre back! this isn't rocket science. I'm convinced he's only playing this formation to accommodate our 4 forwards!! none of which are very good as a pairing.

Yiadom Holmes McIntyre Babba
Hutchinson Fornah
Meite Ince Hoilett
Long

Every player here is in there natural position, maybe Fornah is more of a CM than a DM so swap out with Loum or Mbengue. Upfront we can rotate the three forwards who all can player the lone striker position pretty well.

Agree and thats my point - small squad, no real choices to make, bigger squads - more options and more choices. Not convinced yet on decision making. The only stand out player is TInce - he nees to be no10 role . top of diamond. I'd debate NGW over Baba. Ditto Hendrick Fornah but in reality those 3 should be mini squad for 2 centre mid roles - so all likley to to rotate. Same to rotate Joao Long Carroll as lone striker. If we suffer bad injury to TInce we are really going to be in trouble

[Royal_jimmy]

No thanks for Parky. He's a legend and I don't want to see that be blemished as he was a terrific player for us. Think he'd be more likely to fail here as he has done for other clubs at this level.

As long as Ince doesn't look like he's guiding us down then I'm happy to stick with him. I quite like the blokes personality and he's honest. We've looked more competitive than under Pauno. Is he a long term manager? I'm not so sure.

We aren't under embargo next season so we can start afresh, get Moore off the bill (we may lose João and Meite too sadly). But we'll have more headroom to recruit. Ince needs to work out an effective way of playing at this level and recruit players for that system.

[AthleticoSpizz]

…..and with all of the restrictions and set-backs that we have brought into this 2022/2023 season…I am quite happy with what I am seeing.

Back in August, it was all about survival…it still is…we aren’t too far short (pro-rata)

[URZZZZ]

We are a workmanlike side but lack creativity and we are predictable. It’s football by numbers. With the strikers we have their lack of goals is a concern. I don’t think the Hendrick/Loum midfield partnership works. Neither offer much going forward. Jnr is convinced Hendrick’s loan deal has a clause included inserted to ensure he plays x amount of games. It does seem he is undroppable.

Yet again I agree with the little Welsh wizard.

Hendrick offers not a great deal. Constantly caught in possession. Doesn’t drive the play forward. Isn’t defensively present.

Really disappointing.

Agree to an extent, Hendrick has been underwhelming and ineffective for periods of games but along with Ince, seems to be one of the only players that understand the concept of moving into space to create an option

Pace and movement hurt the opposition. We have little pace in the side so we need to rely on movement to drag the opposition around but we’re too static in the offensive areas

[Royal_jimmy]

…..and with all of the restrictions and set-backs that we have brought into this 2022/2023 season…I am quite happy with what I am seeing.

Back in August, it was all about survival…it still is…we aren’t too far short (pro-rata)

Agreed

If Ince the man to build a team long term will be interesting to see. His record suggests no but with Bowen in the club to help maybe that will change.

Expectations will be higher next season, should be aiming for mid table at the bare minimum with a playoff challenge aim the year after.

[Millsy]

It's amazing isn't it that despite every fan being very aware of the obvious huge restrictions on the club and the ridiculous injury crisis, especially in defence where most of our problems lie, that at the end of the day only results matter and all that is thrown away.

Given the circumstances they have done extremely well.

Is he confused? Well most of us would be given the options we have up front - whom do you start? Sometimes he's got it very right, sometimes it seems it's not been ideal. bear in mind fitness rotation and injury prevention plays a part. And when loans end in January we will have a whole new headache and further confusion. Everything is stacked against us.

If dropping out of auto-pro and playoff spots is the reason for "concern" then God help any manager comign to Reading.

Mods may wish to merge this into ince out.

[DarOv]

It's amazing isn't it that despite every fan being very aware of the obvious huge restrictions on the club and the ridiculous injury crisis, especially in defence where most of our problems lie, that at the end of the day only results matter and all that is thrown away.

Given the circumstances they have done extremely well.

Is he confused? Well most of us would be given the options we have up front - whom do you start? Sometimes he's got it very right, sometimes it seems it's not been ideal. bear in mind fitness rotation and injury prevention plays a part. And when loans end in January we will have a whole new headache and further confusion. Everything is stacked against us.

If dropping out of auto-pro and playoff spots is the reason for "concern" then God help any manager comign to Reading.

Mods may wish to merge this into ince out.

With so many injured players, it's hard to do anything. I didn't pay much attention to it before. But the game is won not only by the setup of the head coach, but also by the players. If there is no one to play, there will be problems.
Top teams always have someone to fill in. That's their secret to winning.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think over and above, fans are forgiving of results it we put up a good fight and we respond to problems.

They're very unforgiving if perceived poor management choices seem to be a significant factor in poor results, we don’t seem to force teams to play well to beat us and problems go without any real attempt to solve them.

[URZZZZZZZZ]

Writing after the Preston game (dire) got me thinking...
19 games - Home table 4th Away table 22nd Postion 11th
Better than expected at pre-season, great start, wheels have recently started to wobble (significantly)
First 6 games - goals for 7/against 6 (inc 4 at Rotherham) points 12
Second 6 games - goals for 7/against 10 (inc 7 Sheff Ud Sunderland) points 10
Latest 7 games - goals for 7 / against 11 (inc 3 Swansea) points 4

Start of season - injury crisis limited squad to pick from, kids on the bench
Now - minimal injuries only significant one is Hutchinson. Sarr not significant as had only played 2 games. Ignore Dann and Moore

Too much choice - 4 senior strikers, Joao, Meite, Carroll, Long - none seem to work together as a pair. Challenge - one or two up front
Star player - TInce - best when can exploit his pace energy and eye for goal - number 10 or most forward midfield. Tonight way too deep impact reduced
Midfield - Hendrick improving (like him joins up things), Loum - temperant and decision making dubious potentially a dud, Fornah young with energy, Hoillet normally reliable in the right postion, Ejaria out of favour, lost his mojo, now peripheral. Hutchinson DM or centre back - good experienced. McIntrye DM or centre back / right back improving
Defence - Yiadom solid (not a wing back), Holmes - having a good season, NGW explosive pace and energy, Baba - whats the point, M Bengue periperal/cover? Sarr - doesn't seem a great signing at the moment
Keepers - Lumley and Bouzanis - solid - sorted

PInce now has 19/20 seniors players to work with - is he getting confused with how to deal with the options/choices he has now

Results should now be improving with the full squad back, or at least be consistent with the early start but things are getting worse

Team has demonstrated great potential with right pegs in right holes. So I would say we are now underperforming

Or maybe the team is knackered, other managers have sussed us out, PInce having less of an impact on the players?

I think the Preston fiasco is down to management choices/decisions/selection/shape etc

I now struggle to see how we are trying to play, identity etc.

Heard at Blackpool there was a good period followed by one of decline......... he has done very well to get us to mid table at the almost halfway point but cause for mild concern I fear

The point I have bolded was the interesting take out I saw from your post.

You have pinpointed four players who have been out injured, 3.5 of which are centre backs. (Hutchinson having played a decent role there this season).

In any squad, if you have that many injuries in one position you are going to have issues. Sarr in his 1.5 games looked like an absolute monster and exactly what we need, as has been the case with our luck however, we unable to get much football out of him. I can guarantee that once he is back our fortunes will improve. Hutchinson was a key part of the team that saw us start the season so well, and in Dann you have experience.

I, and I'm sure many others, have enjoyed this season much more than any of the last few, which is miraculous when the pre season consensus was that we'd be certs for relegation.

Ince is doing a good job at the moment, and whilst Friday was disappointing, we shouldn't be entertaining knee jerk reactions.

[Hound]

Tbh we didn’t play that terribly against PNE. It was just the incredibly frustrating ease at which they scored 2 goals.

It does seem a bit of a Reading habit - we really should have easily settled for a draw at worst once we got the equaliser, and the way in which we just invited them to score their second must have had Ince pulling his hair out. A boring 1-1 would have been ok if not great

It’s a big failing of McIntyre’s and one he rapidly needs to learn from - this kind of poor decision making on when to shut the player down. Did it at Rotherham as well as probably others

Holmes has improved massively and sadly just not seen the same from McIntyre as yet

Previous 2 games, esp Luton we actually played pretty well

[Snowflake Royal]

Personally think people are being harsh on McIntyre. He's covering WB from central position and he does cover ground to get across. He has to to try to block near post and hope the rest of his team and keeper can cut out anything across the goal.

It's always a risk that if you charge out to close down you're taken out the game with a drop of the shoulder or burst of pace past you. Similar to when NGW lunged for that ball that was then tipped over him and his man was away.

[Millsy]

It’s a big failing of McIntyre’s and one he rapidly needs to learn from - this kind of poor decision making on when to shut the player down. Did it at Rotherham as well as probably others

Holmes has improved massively and sadly just not seen the same from McIntyre as yet

Agreed. I've pointed this out several times now already and there's always been an excuse for it. If only some other players coudl attract the same leniency that he seems to.

Agree Holmes has improved.

[Hound]

Personally think people are being harsh on McIntyre. He's covering WB from central position and he does cover ground to get across. He has to to try to block near post and hope the rest of his team and keeper can cut out anything across the goal.

It's always a risk that if you charge out to close down you're taken out the game with a drop of the shoulder or burst of pace past you. Similar to when NGW lunged for that ball that was then tipped over him and his man was away.

Not sure Ched Evans has the quality to drop a shoulder and speed past him either side.

Can’t just let someone tip toe into the area and then open up an entire side of the goal to shoot at. I’d have much rather Evans tried to go on the outside and cross rather than an open invitation to pick a spot, take your time and then shoot when you feel like it

[Stranded]

Personally think people are being harsh on McIntyre. He's covering WB from central position and he does cover ground to get across. He has to to try to block near post and hope the rest of his team and keeper can cut out anything across the goal.

It's always a risk that if you charge out to close down you're taken out the game with a drop of the shoulder or burst of pace past you. Similar to when NGW lunged for that ball that was then tipped over him and his man was away.

Not sure Ched Evans has the quality to drop a shoulder and speed past him either side.

Can’t just let someone tip toe into the area and then open up an entire side of the goal to shoot at. I’d have much rather Evans tried to go on the outside and cross rather than an open invitation to pick a spot, take your time and then shoot when you feel like it

Agreed. The only thing a player like Ched Evans does there is carry the ball forward a few metres and shoots. Closing that and showing him down a channel would have been smarter defending IMHO.

[Vision]

Personally think people are being harsh on McIntyre. He's covering WB from central position and he does cover ground to get across. He has to to try to block near post and hope the rest of his team and keeper can cut out anything across the goal.

It's always a risk that if you charge out to close down you're taken out the game with a drop of the shoulder or burst of pace past you. Similar to when NGW lunged for that ball that was then tipped over him and his man was away.

Not sure Ched Evans has the quality to drop a shoulder and speed past him either side.

Can’t just let someone tip toe into the area and then open up an entire side of the goal to shoot at. I’d have much rather Evans tried to go on the outside and cross rather than an open invitation to pick a spot, take your time and then shoot when you feel like it

Agreed. The only thing a player like Ched Evans does there is carry the ball forward a few metres and shoots. Closing that and showing him down a channel would have been smarter defending IMHO.

The issue was both McIntyre and Lumley seemed to take the view that he couldn't score from there. Neither of them fully covered the shot across goal.

It was a bit like my old park football defending days "Go on mate have a shot, you won't score from th--- oh shit"

[SCIAG]

Yeah he should have been shown wide, no two ways about it.

[South Coast Royal]

Not sure Ched Evans has the quality to drop a shoulder and speed past him either side.

Can’t just let someone tip toe into the area and then open up an entire side of the goal to shoot at. I’d have much rather Evans tried to go on the outside and cross rather than an open invitation to pick a spot, take your time and then shoot when you feel like it

Agreed. The only thing a player like Ched Evans does there is carry the ball forward a few metres and shoots. Closing that and showing him down a channel would have been smarter defending IMHO.

The issue was both McIntyre and Lumley seemed to take the view that he couldn't score from there. Neither of them fully covered the shot across goal.

It was a bit like my old park football defending days "Go on mate have a shot, you won't score from th--- oh shit"

For as long as I can remember, (well, at least for the past 10 years or so) successive Reading teams have failed to defend in 2 areas.
One is in allowing the opposition to shoot from distance and the other is to allow the wide player to cross the ball rather than try to block it.
When the oppo player scores from distance the players look at each other as if to say "you don't expect a player to score from that far out"-amazingly it happens even at Championship level and we were guilty of doing the same in the Prem.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It was poor defending, even after hindsight. Ched Evans isn't the most prolific goalscorer ever, but he's a Championship footballer with previous International experience, he can score a goal (of quality) from those areas and I'd imagine, in a lot of circumstances, if you allow a Championship CF to enter your box unchallenged, you're asking for trouble.

I do agree with P.Ince, it's tough to be asking the same players to be playing every few days with minimal changes at this level and at this intensity, but the goals we conceded on Friday were so weak and easy that it does become less of an excuse. Robbie Brady has quality with his delivery, now maybe if legs are tiring some you aren't going to be sprinting out but we were 50 minutes into the game and he had a good couple of seconds in the second phase and we didn't get anywhere near close enough. The header was good, fair play, still soft but a good header and the 2nd goal was a similar principle, not engaging the man on the ball enough. That wasn't just applicable to Friday, Swansea away we failed to engage the players with the ball enough.

Sometimes I think we are "too concerned" on keeping shape rather than doing the basics of locking on the man with the ball and have players recovering in behind restricting space.