The magic of the FA Cup

[Snowflake Royal]

Exactly - you'd have thought the more logical step would be buy more than you would be expecting and then sell back to the club in a appropriate timescale so that they can be sold.

Either that, or have an initial allocation of 3k, then if that sells, we have an agreement for a further 2k for example, then if that sells, then a further 2k etc until the demand is filled or until an agreed date between both clubs as to when no more tickets can be sold and the home team then put them on general sale.

No use people moaning at the people who are going as a one off, the problem is with the club, not the fans.

It doesn't work like that though. United will offer us sections of the ground that we have depending on the number of tickets we want. Once we accept that area, it means that no Utd fan can use it. So we can't just 'send back' unsold tickets. They could, in theory, pick out a few different areas and lets us try to sell out one and a time - but why would United do that? It's not in their interest for us to bring 9,000 fans, so they're just going to give us a take it or leave it offer, not 'let's see how you do'.

We don't know what the options are that Utd offered us. There might not have been a 5/6/7k choice - it might have been 3k or 9k. And, if I was the Managing Director at RFC, i would feel extremely nervous about committing to purchasing £400k worth of tickets for a televised game against a club we've played a few times in the last decade.

Which then goes back to the second point, it should be a case of we have an initial allocation which can then be extended further if needs be. We can have up to 15% of the ground in the FA Cup that United have already signed up to, so they will already have the section(s) of the ground mapped out for away fans.

That then comes down to us to agree with them about initial allocations and then further ticketing if we sell out the initial allocation. It just seems like we've bought one lot of tickets and not considered that they may have miscalculated with the demand.

Why would Utd do that?

They can sell the tickets. They want their fans there. Why gives us that option when they can say you get 4k or 9k pick and pay up?

It's not like they need to treat us well to keep us on side.

What's in it for them, and where's the club's leverage? Taking a 7k/8k+ allocation is just an increased risk of significant los of revenue.

[Brogue]

interesting that we have so many subject matter experts on this topic. making a lot of assumptions based on nothing.

Things we know

We got an allocation of 3093 tickets
They sold out within 30 minutes.
Loyalty points were not used
Season ticket holders were not prioritsed.
You were able to buy 4 tickets in one purchase

Things we don't know

Everything else.

[Sutekh]

interesting that we have so many subject matter experts on this topic. making a lot of assumptions based on nothing.

Things we know

We got an allocation of 3093 tickets
They sold out within 30 minutes.
Loyalty points were not used
Season ticket holders were not prioritsed.
You were able to buy 4 tickets in one purchase

Things we don't know

Everything else.

Last time the club got this draw (January 2019) the owners actually subsidised the cost of tickets for supporters (think because the general performances had been so dreadful in 2018) and there was a points system in place for the 3500 tickets allocated. This (the points system) was for some reason not applied this time when it should have been and has been for nearly every cup tie away from home probably this century.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=185475&hilit=Manchester+united

[Brogue]

interesting that we have so many subject matter experts on this topic. making a lot of assumptions based on nothing.

Things we know

We got an allocation of 3093 tickets
They sold out within 30 minutes.
Loyalty points were not used
Season ticket holders were not prioritsed.
You were able to buy 4 tickets in one purchase

Things we don't know

Everything else.

Last time the club got this draw (January 2019) the owners actually subsidised the cost of tickets for supporters (think because the general performances had been so dreadful in 2018) and there was a points system in place for the 3500 tickets allocated. This (the points system) was for some reason not applied this time when it should have been and has been for nearly every cup tie away from home probably this century.

https://www.royals.org/forum/viewtopic. ... ter+united

Err... Thanks

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It doesn't work like that though. United will offer us sections of the ground that we have depending on the number of tickets we want. Once we accept that area, it means that no Utd fan can use it. So we can't just 'send back' unsold tickets. They could, in theory, pick out a few different areas and lets us try to sell out one and a time - but why would United do that? It's not in their interest for us to bring 9,000 fans, so they're just going to give us a take it or leave it offer, not 'let's see how you do'.

We don't know what the options are that Utd offered us. There might not have been a 5/6/7k choice - it might have been 3k or 9k. And, if I was the Managing Director at RFC, i would feel extremely nervous about committing to purchasing £400k worth of tickets for a televised game against a club we've played a few times in the last decade.

Which then goes back to the second point, it should be a case of we have an initial allocation which can then be extended further if needs be. We can have up to 15% of the ground in the FA Cup that United have already signed up to, so they will already have the section(s) of the ground mapped out for away fans.

That then comes down to us to agree with them about initial allocations and then further ticketing if we sell out the initial allocation. It just seems like we've bought one lot of tickets and not considered that they may have miscalculated with the demand.

Why would Utd do that?

They can sell the tickets. They want their fans there. Why gives us that option when they can say you get 4k or 9k pick and pay up?

It's not like they need to treat us well to keep us on side.

What's in it for them, and where's the club's leverage? Taking a 7k/8k+ allocation is just an increased risk of significant los of revenue.

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

[Nameless]

Which then goes back to the second point, it should be a case of we have an initial allocation which can then be extended further if needs be. We can have up to 15% of the ground in the FA Cup that United have already signed up to, so they will already have the section(s) of the ground mapped out for away fans.

That then comes down to us to agree with them about initial allocations and then further ticketing if we sell out the initial allocation. It just seems like we've bought one lot of tickets and not considered that they may have miscalculated with the demand.

Why would Utd do that?

They can sell the tickets. They want their fans there. Why gives us that option when they can say you get 4k or 9k pick and pay up?

It's not like they need to treat us well to keep us on side.

What's in it for them, and where's the club's leverage? Taking a 7k/8k+ allocation is just an increased risk of significant los of revenue.

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

It doesn’t work that we can just keep asking for a few more tickets.
We will have not taken the 15% (understandably) so we will have been offered other options. Dispensation from the FA has nothing to do with it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Which then goes back to the second point, it should be a case of we have an initial allocation which can then be extended further if needs be. We can have up to 15% of the ground in the FA Cup that United have already signed up to, so they will already have the section(s) of the ground mapped out for away fans.

That then comes down to us to agree with them about initial allocations and then further ticketing if we sell out the initial allocation. It just seems like we've bought one lot of tickets and not considered that they may have miscalculated with the demand.

Why would Utd do that?

They can sell the tickets. They want their fans there. Why gives us that option when they can say you get 4k or 9k pick and pay up?

It's not like they need to treat us well to keep us on side.

What's in it for them, and where's the club's leverage? Taking a 7k/8k+ allocation is just an increased risk of significant los of revenue.

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

[Royal_jimmy]

Sold out. Within 30 mins of being on sale. Managed to bag my two tickets feel sorry for those who will miss out. Club vastly underestimated the demand. As did a few nobbers on here...

I did say we didn't take a big enough allocation....

[Royal_jimmy]

That was quick to sellout no? Did anyone expect that?

I was probably the first on here to criticise the 3.5k allocation when it was announced

I thought it would sell out fast. Maybe not in 20 minutes but definitely comfortably. It's Man Utd away, of course demands will be high.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Why would Utd do that?

They can sell the tickets. They want their fans there. Why gives us that option when they can say you get 4k or 9k pick and pay up?

It's not like they need to treat us well to keep us on side.

What's in it for them, and where's the club's leverage? Taking a 7k/8k+ allocation is just an increased risk of significant los of revenue.

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

[Royal_jimmy]

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

Exactly this. If we'd taken a 6k allocation which I think we could have probably sold out, we'd be seeing fans in the upper tier of that stand to the right of the normal away end in the corner. We've had that allocation before and nearly filled it.

The biggest mess up is the club didn't let season ticket holders only buy first. By effectively putting it on general sale they've let people who haven't been to a game for years, or the odd game without supporting the club buy tickets at the expense of season ticket holders.

[Nameless]

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

On what basis are you suggesting this is possible ?
At the Madejski visiting clubs used to get 2k or 4K. There were no other options. You took half the section or all of it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Because they have signed up at an agreement stating that away fans can have 15% of the stadium capacity in the FA Cup, however, if it this is to be less allocated then special dispensation has to be granted by the FA.

This might have happened, which is fair enough, which might be something like our current situation.

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

Good luck trying to negotiate with Utd with absolutely no leverage.

[Nameless]

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

Good luck trying to negotiate with Utd with absolutely no leverage.

It’s ok, he’ll just invent some hypothetical set of circumstances and decide that is how these things work….

[Loafer]

got a couple tickets here, will be going up by train if anybody wants to have a session on the virgin express

anybody that missed out, will sell for double value (handling fee, postage and unlucky fee)

[Snowflake Royal]

Reading FC: Dear Manchester Utd, we'd like to take an initial alocation of 5,000 with the option of an additional 2,000 plus another aditional 2,000 after that. FA Cup regulations say you have to offer us 15%.

Manchester Utd: you can have 4k or 11k.

Reading FC: Well, we'd like to negotiate on the number and additional options because we think we can sell them but want to limit our risk in astaggered way because of the time of year, time of day and TV element.

Manchester Utd: 4k it is.

[Stranded]

Where's the requirement to offer the club's choice up to that point in stages... nowhere I'd guess.

So by saying you can have 9k (or whatever 15% is), or 4k you choose that's it, they're meeting the obligation.

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

Exactly this. If we'd taken a 6k allocation which I think we could have probably sold out, we'd be seeing fans in the upper tier of that stand to the right of the normal away end in the corner. We've had that allocation before and nearly filled it.

The biggest mess up is the club didn't let season ticket holders only buy first. By effectively putting it on general sale they've let people who haven't been to a game for years, or the odd game without supporting the club buy tickets at the expense of season ticket holders.

The away end at OT has capacity for 3k fans, we took 3k tickets. So you can figure out where fans are going to be.

To give us extra, they have to hand over sections that are for home fans. That is fine but they will have sections earmarked than can be segregated from home fans.

Under FA rules, the away allocation is capped at 9k. The club have to request an allocation within 4 days of the draw and any unsold tickets must be returned to the home side for sale. Given the relatively non-plussed reaction to the draw, the need to put in a ticket request before the time/date of the tie was known and it appears that United offer two options, the full 9k or the 3k away end - it makes sense to me to go for the latter.

The sale, naturally, could have been handled better.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

No but we can negotiate with the club differing levels of allocation. It's not just as black and white as, you either buy 3k or 9k. Hence why initial allocations exist.

Good luck trying to negotiate with Utd with absolutely no leverage.

It’s ok, he’ll just invent some hypothetical set of circumstances and decide that is how these things work….

There is no hypothetical theory. We buy the tickets, anything we don't sell goes back to the home club. All we did was box ourselves in by buying 3k rather than 9k. If we sell 6k, that's what we sell, the rest go back to United. We don't lose out on money, all we've done is sold more tickets and the rest have gone back to United.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I expect a lot of Surrey Reds have got hold of tickets who have been to Reading in the past.

I don't think the club got the numbers wrong - just the way the tickets were sold.

if you look at it, we have amongst the worst away following in the league (less than 1k average) and add that to the KO time. live on free TV, lack of trains back, and the fact its not a novelty playing there I can understand the allocation.

[Nameless]

Good luck trying to negotiate with Utd with absolutely no leverage.

It’s ok, he’ll just invent some hypothetical set of circumstances and decide that is how these things work….

There is no hypothetical theory. We buy the tickets, anything we don't sell goes back to the home club. All we did was box ourselves in by buying 3k rather than 9k. If we sell 6k, that's what we sell, the rest go back to United. We don't lose out on money, all we've done is sold more tickets and the rest have gone back to United.

What makes you think that is the case ?