Points Deduction AGAIN

[Nameless]

The accounts that are due to be published relate to last season. Those were already taken into consideration when we were sanctioned last season. For this year we will be giving updates of income and expenditure, forecast through to 30 June, the financial year end.

I think we’ve probably broken the total losses of £13m for the year. Suspect this has happened as a consequence of several things. Firstly match day income will be down as attendances have been low, energy prices have rocketed and that’s probably a decent sized cost because of floodlights, heat lamps, etc

Finally I expect the plan was predicated on one of either Joao or Moore leaving at some point (either summer or Jan) and we haven’t been able to do that because of their injuries. Therefore, we can’t get a chunk off the wage bill resulting in our losses exceeding those planned. It does make the signing of Casadei a little surprising, but it probably shows we’re paying buttons towards his wages.

If we’ve broken the business plan, then the 6 points suspended will almost definitely be applied. If our breach os for something else, like irregularities or wrong doings, then a different penalty will probably apply. If we have overspent, then I fully expect we will have to agree another business plan for next season, and therefore have our spending curtailed again with a de facto transfer embargo again.

Last season was not taken into account. We breached for the period upto the end of 20/21. Losses upto and including the end of that season were flattened to 13m per season.

We could only lose 13m last season so as not to breach FFP again. A tough ask.

There are many ways we may have breached, many of which have nothing to do with this season

Deducting 6 points because our energy bill is higher than expected through no fault of our own would seem harsh !

[Snowflake Royal]

The accounts that are due to be published relate to last season. Those were already taken into consideration when we were sanctioned last season. For this year we will be giving updates of income and expenditure, forecast through to 30 June, the financial year end.

I think we’ve probably broken the total losses of £13m for the year. Suspect this has happened as a consequence of several things. Firstly match day income will be down as attendances have been low, energy prices have rocketed and that’s probably a decent sized cost because of floodlights, heat lamps, etc

Finally I expect the plan was predicated on one of either Joao or Moore leaving at some point (either summer or Jan) and we haven’t been able to do that because of their injuries. Therefore, we can’t get a chunk off the wage bill resulting in our losses exceeding those planned. It does make the signing of Casadei a little surprising, but it probably shows we’re paying buttons towards his wages.

If we’ve broken the business plan, then the 6 points suspended will almost definitely be applied. If our breach os for something else, like irregularities or wrong doings, then a different penalty will probably apply. If we have overspent, then I fully expect we will have to agree another business plan for next season, and therefore have our spending curtailed again with a de facto transfer embargo again.

Matchday income won't be down. Our attendances were up on last season when I checked about a month ago. And we have an FA Cup windfall too.

Costs will certainly be up and by more than a small increase from attendance probably. But if the club forecast income on the same or higher attendances than last season when relegation favourites who regularly lose at home, they're barking mad.

Again, if they based budgets on offloading Moore or Joao then they're idiots or made little attempt to succeed. And shouldn’t have signed all the players they did.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It is neither positive or negative, just a statement of all we know. EFL have said they are reviewing. End.

It had to happen and it may well end up with us getting a deduction, it may not. Out of my control, so not going to stress about it.

Didn't say you had to stress about it. But your 'as would always have happened' puts a very clear 'nothing to see here' take as if there's a degree of certainty this is routine. That the journalist scoops are made up based purely on a bet we'll have failed to meet the plan and they'll come out looking in the know, like some kid on twitter. When in fact these are credible journalists with genuine sources, and the current review by the FL may be much more than just a routine that 'would always have happened'.

Just because you don't want to worry about it, doesn't mean that there's nothing more to it than routine.

The obvious position, and entirely plausible one is that towards the end of the period we are under ‘parole’ for we’d be required to submit evidence that we’ve met the conditions we were set. It’s pretty much inconceivable that wouldn’t happen.
We know the club were confident just a few weeks ago that they were on target to be compliant.
It’s a jump to assume we’re not compliant based on a journalist saying we might possibly not be, without any explanation of why or how.
There may be issues, they may or may not be significant enough to mean we get punished but I haven’t seen anyone make a credible suggestion as to what those issues might be.
Obviously some people on various SM seem desperate for the speculation to be true and if it is they can feel happy they backed the right (hobby) horse.
Frankly we’re all shooting in the dark right now and it’s impossible to get a proper idea of where we might be. It is interesting that the EFL statement says they are looking at whether compliance has been achieved rather than potential non compliance.
My expectation (pure guess work) is we’ll be essentially compliant in terms of the business plan but still not fully where we need to be in terms of losses. I think we’ll see our restrictions loosened but extended for a year, possibly allowing us to pay fees and higher wages but requiring EFL sign off of them.

The EFL would say they are looking for compliance because that's what happens in an audit, you don't look for non-compliance even though the popular belief is that auditors do.

If that's true and we still aren't where we need to be in terms of losses, then we are going to be in some pretty big trouble going forward from here as well, restrictions or not.

[Snowflake Royal]

Apart from the fact it has the club in a continued bad light and we're still stuck with Yongge, not that fussed by any actual penalty.

We're probably in the best position to manage relegation for half a decade at least. With almost all the high earners out of contract, a swathe of loanees and some quality young players coming through.

When we lose Moore we instantly cut our wage budget by 10% and we don't even need to replace him.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Genuinely cant be based on players we signed or revenue streams as they are up. The only thing I can think that could be classed as a loophole around EFL could be some backroom staff. i know we brought in a few mid season and EFL might be looking at the impact on that.

As we have the suspended 6 points it easy click bait for journos just to go Reading FC being investigated and in line for points deduction. Where as the truth could be, EFL just want to run the numbers as they wont have full access to our accounts.

[Hound]

The EFL would have agreed to that budget based on Joao/Moore leaving knowing that we don’t have full control over that

Only thing I can think of is we’ve not accepted an offer for Joao when we’re obliged to do so (though Bowen suggested this wasn’t a thing on his interview earlier on) or we’ve made some sort of technical breach over squad players - but even then it’s suggested all this has been done with the EFL. Or they are having a whinge about the kids for a quid tickets or something. Which would be very football atm

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The accounts that are due to be published relate to last season. Those were already taken into consideration when we were sanctioned last season. For this year we will be giving updates of income and expenditure, forecast through to 30 June, the financial year end.

I think we’ve probably broken the total losses of £13m for the year. Suspect this has happened as a consequence of several things. Firstly match day income will be down as attendances have been low, energy prices have rocketed and that’s probably a decent sized cost because of floodlights, heat lamps, etc

Finally I expect the plan was predicated on one of either Joao or Moore leaving at some point (either summer or Jan) and we haven’t been able to do that because of their injuries. Therefore, we can’t get a chunk off the wage bill resulting in our losses exceeding those planned. It does make the signing of Casadei a little surprising, but it probably shows we’re paying buttons towards his wages.

If we’ve broken the business plan, then the 6 points suspended will almost definitely be applied. If our breach os for something else, like irregularities or wrong doings, then a different penalty will probably apply. If we have overspent, then I fully expect we will have to agree another business plan for next season, and therefore have our spending curtailed again with a de facto transfer embargo again.

Last season was not taken into account. We breached for the period upto the end of 20/21. Losses upto and including the end of that season were flattened to 13m per season.

We could only lose 13m last season so as not to breach FFP again. A tough ask.

There are many ways we may have breached, many of which have nothing to do with this season

Yeah it is a tough ask. Considering our losses prior to breaching were at like £40m, there is still a lot of unaccounted operating costs that will have been sky high. Even though our wage bill has reduced, we'd have still have been losing around £20m on just the running of the club I'd imagine.

[Hound]

Didn't say you had to stress about it. But your 'as would always have happened' puts a very clear 'nothing to see here' take as if there's a degree of certainty this is routine. That the journalist scoops are made up based purely on a bet we'll have failed to meet the plan and they'll come out looking in the know, like some kid on twitter. When in fact these are credible journalists with genuine sources, and the current review by the FL may be much more than just a routine that 'would always have happened'.

Just because you don't want to worry about it, doesn't mean that there's nothing more to it than routine.

The obvious position, and entirely plausible one is that towards the end of the period we are under ‘parole’ for we’d be required to submit evidence that we’ve met the conditions we were set. It’s pretty much inconceivable that wouldn’t happen.
We know the club were confident just a few weeks ago that they were on target to be compliant.
It’s a jump to assume we’re not compliant based on a journalist saying we might possibly not be, without any explanation of why or how.
There may be issues, they may or may not be significant enough to mean we get punished but I haven’t seen anyone make a credible suggestion as to what those issues might be.
Obviously some people on various SM seem desperate for the speculation to be true and if it is they can feel happy they backed the right (hobby) horse.
Frankly we’re all shooting in the dark right now and it’s impossible to get a proper idea of where we might be. It is interesting that the EFL statement says they are looking at whether compliance has been achieved rather than potential non compliance.
My expectation (pure guess work) is we’ll be essentially compliant in terms of the business plan but still not fully where we need to be in terms of losses. I think we’ll see our restrictions loosened but extended for a year, possibly allowing us to pay fees and higher wages but requiring EFL sign off of them.

The EFL would say they are looking for compliance because that's what happens in an audit, you don't look for non-compliance even though the popular belief is that auditors do.

If that's true and we still aren't where we need to be in terms of losses, then we are going to be in some pretty big trouble going forward from here as well, restrictions or not.

I don’t think we can be - no more and probably a lot less than any other champ team

We have ok crowds. All the big earners bar Ejaria are gone end of season. our wage bill at the end of June will be tiny and that’s by far the biggest outlay. What else are we spending on? A lot of the previous losses were things we could write off for FFP

[Orion1871]

Genuinely cant be based on players we signed or revenue streams as they are up. The only thing I can think that could be classed as a loophole around EFL could be some backroom staff. i know we brought in a few mid season and EFL might be looking at the impact on that.

As we have the suspended 6 points it easy click bait for journos just to go Reading FC being investigated and in line for points deduction. Where as the truth could be, EFL just want to run the numbers as they wont have full access to our accounts.

So we bring in backroom staff, in order to have a scouting department, improved academy, etc and they punish us for it?

If that is the reasoning then they would be punishing us for trying to get the house in order, and attempting to run the club sensibly.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Genuinely cant be based on players we signed or revenue streams as they are up. The only thing I can think that could be classed as a loophole around EFL could be some backroom staff. i know we brought in a few mid season and EFL might be looking at the impact on that.

As we have the suspended 6 points it easy click bait for journos just to go Reading FC being investigated and in line for points deduction. Where as the truth could be, EFL just want to run the numbers as they wont have full access to our accounts.

So we bring in backroom staff, in order to have a scouting department, improved academy, etc and they punish us for it?

If that is the reasoning then they would be punishing us for trying to get the house in order, and attempting to run the club sensibly.

But not if that's burdening the club with massive cost.

I'm not saying that's actually true or anything, but that could very well be something we are punished for.

[Theroyalbox]

It is really bugging me that the club haven't released any communications, even just saying they are aware of the press etc. Just left for Ince to deal with in Press Conference today, we are back to square one again with poor old Pauno fronting up to everything!

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The obvious position, and entirely plausible one is that towards the end of the period we are under ‘parole’ for we’d be required to submit evidence that we’ve met the conditions we were set. It’s pretty much inconceivable that wouldn’t happen.
We know the club were confident just a few weeks ago that they were on target to be compliant.
It’s a jump to assume we’re not compliant based on a journalist saying we might possibly not be, without any explanation of why or how.
There may be issues, they may or may not be significant enough to mean we get punished but I haven’t seen anyone make a credible suggestion as to what those issues might be.
Obviously some people on various SM seem desperate for the speculation to be true and if it is they can feel happy they backed the right (hobby) horse.
Frankly we’re all shooting in the dark right now and it’s impossible to get a proper idea of where we might be. It is interesting that the EFL statement says they are looking at whether compliance has been achieved rather than potential non compliance.
My expectation (pure guess work) is we’ll be essentially compliant in terms of the business plan but still not fully where we need to be in terms of losses. I think we’ll see our restrictions loosened but extended for a year, possibly allowing us to pay fees and higher wages but requiring EFL sign off of them.

The EFL would say they are looking for compliance because that's what happens in an audit, you don't look for non-compliance even though the popular belief is that auditors do.

If that's true and we still aren't where we need to be in terms of losses, then we are going to be in some pretty big trouble going forward from here as well, restrictions or not.

I don’t think we can be - no more and probably a lot less than any other champ team

We have ok crowds. All the big earners bar Ejaria are gone end of season. our wage bill at the end of June will be tiny and that’s by far the biggest outlay. What else are we spending on? A lot of the previous losses were things we could write off for FFP

Well look at when we were posting losses of around £40m, those couple of seasons.

The wage bill was say 200% of turnover and the wage bill was estimated to be around £32m, meaning revenue is around £16m. So that still leaves £24m on unaccounted cost somewhere ultimately. I don't know what it costs to run a football club, but I can imagine cost stacks up somewhere i.e. a new training ground and a category one academy for example.

When you consider that both Birmingham and Bristol City were allegedly estimated to be losing around £600k and £400k a week respectively on just day-to-day operating costs, I can imagine it's doable. How a club ever loses that much, I'll never know, but it's possible.

Even though our wage bill, a big burden on our finances, has been reduced dramatically, there is still a lot of other operating costs going somewhere. £24m (estimated) is still losing just over £450k a week, which I can imagine is/was entirely possible.

(Those figures obviously aren't bang on accurate, but are just rounded estimates based on what has been previously released, they wpn't be too far out)

[Hound]

The EFL would say they are looking for compliance because that's what happens in an audit, you don't look for non-compliance even though the popular belief is that auditors do.

If that's true and we still aren't where we need to be in terms of losses, then we are going to be in some pretty big trouble going forward from here as well, restrictions or not.

I don’t think we can be - no more and probably a lot less than any other champ team

We have ok crowds. All the big earners bar Ejaria are gone end of season. our wage bill at the end of June will be tiny and that’s by far the biggest outlay. What else are we spending on? A lot of the previous losses were things we could write off for FFP

Well look at when we were posting losses of around £40m, those couple of seasons.

The wage bill was say 200% of turnover and the wage bill was estimated to be around £32m, meaning revenue is around £16m. So that still leaves £24m on unaccounted cost somewhere ultimately. I don't know what it costs to run a football club, but I can imagine cost stacks up somewhere i.e. a new training ground and a category one academy for example.

When you consider that both Birmingham and Bristol City were allegedly estimated to be losing around £600k and £400k a week respectively on just day-to-day operating costs, I can imagine it's doable. How a club ever loses that much, I'll never know, but it's possible.

Even though our wage bill, a big burden on our finances, has been reduced dramatically, there is still a lot of other operating costs going somewhere. £24m (estimated) is still losing just over £450k a week, which I can imagine is/was entirely possible.

(Those figures obviously aren't bang on accurate, but are just rounded estimates based on what has been previously released, they wpn't be too far out)

There was still player transfer fees in those amounts (8-10m) and the wages and Covid impacts in those years. Halve the wages and take out the amortisation and it’s about there, esp if the match day income is back to pre Covid levels

The year we lost 42m, wages were 37.6m and amortisation 9.2m

And those figures don’t include any transfer income of any note - these should include Olise’s 8m. Though guess some of Joao, Puscas and Ejaria transfers will still show on the amortisation

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I don’t think we can be - no more and probably a lot less than any other champ team

We have ok crowds. All the big earners bar Ejaria are gone end of season. our wage bill at the end of June will be tiny and that’s by far the biggest outlay. What else are we spending on? A lot of the previous losses were things we could write off for FFP

Well look at when we were posting losses of around £40m, those couple of seasons.

The wage bill was say 200% of turnover and the wage bill was estimated to be around £32m, meaning revenue is around £16m. So that still leaves £24m on unaccounted cost somewhere ultimately. I don't know what it costs to run a football club, but I can imagine cost stacks up somewhere i.e. a new training ground and a category one academy for example.

When you consider that both Birmingham and Bristol City were allegedly estimated to be losing around £600k and £400k a week respectively on just day-to-day operating costs, I can imagine it's doable. How a club ever loses that much, I'll never know, but it's possible.

Even though our wage bill, a big burden on our finances, has been reduced dramatically, there is still a lot of other operating costs going somewhere. £24m (estimated) is still losing just over £450k a week, which I can imagine is/was entirely possible.

(Those figures obviously aren't bang on accurate, but are just rounded estimates based on what has been previously released, they wpn't be too far out)

There was still player transfer fees in those amounts (8-10m) and the wages and Covid impacts in those years. Halve the wages and take out the amortisation and it’s about there, esp if the match day income is back to pre Covid levels

The season where we spent £10-15m on players yes fair enough a lot of the losses will still be there and yes, the inflated wage bill will have caused massive issues as well, although I still think there are underlying issues on the day-to-day operating costs of the club.

Covid impacts were accounted for and we still far exceeded the threshold nonetheless.

The biggest problem for me is we haven't sold players to alleviate these cost issues, we've just tried pumping a load of money in for seasons and it's not something you can necessarily just change overnight. Even with all the new sponsorship deals we've had this season, as well as the rebranding of the stadium name, the lowering of the wages etc, we are still (potentially) going to fall foul of our agreed business plan. If we don't and we are compliant, then that's obviously the best possible outcome and the one we all want.

[Hendo]

Whatever way you look at it we are doomed. Even if we stay up with or without the six point deduction with so many players out of contract at the end of the season, and no money to spend on new ones with low paid free transfers and some loans it will be inevitable we will be a league one club. Maybe we should start collecting coins in buckets outside the stadium on match day let’s face it, it didn’t do Bournemouth any harm!

Just like the same situation we were in at the start of this season?

[paultheroyal]

Whatever way you look at it we are doomed. Even if we stay up with or without the six point deduction with so many players out of contract at the end of the season, and no money to spend on new ones with low paid free transfers and some loans it will be inevitable we will be a league one club. Maybe we should start collecting coins in buckets outside the stadium on match day let’s face it, it didn’t do Bournemouth any harm!

Just like the same situation we were in at the start of this season?

JC been overly dramatic, on what has actually so far been a decent season.

[Hound]

Whatever way you look at it we are doomed. Even if we stay up with or without the six point deduction with so many players out of contract at the end of the season, and no money to spend on new ones with low paid free transfers and some loans it will be inevitable we will be a league one club. Maybe we should start collecting coins in buckets outside the stadium on match day let’s face it, it didn’t do Bournemouth any harm!

Just like the same situation we were in at the start of this season?

I’m surprised as I thought JC was going to give us a silver lining to all this

[Snowflake Royal]

Genuinely cant be based on players we signed or revenue streams as they are up. The only thing I can think that could be classed as a loophole around EFL could be some backroom staff. i know we brought in a few mid season and EFL might be looking at the impact on that.

As we have the suspended 6 points it easy click bait for journos just to go Reading FC being investigated and in line for points deduction. Where as the truth could be, EFL just want to run the numbers as they wont have full access to our accounts.

So we bring in backroom staff, in order to have a scouting department, improved academy, etc and they punish us for it?

If that is the reasoning then they would be punishing us for trying to get the house in order, and attempting to run the club sensibly.

If in doing so we've gone over our budget, we should be punished.

The FL don't care how well we manage ourselves as a club, they care we meet our financial obligations.

[PATRIQT]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

[Winston Biscuit]

anyone stopped to consider they might be reviewing this to GIVE us extra points rather than take some away?!