Points Deduction AGAIN

[Orion1871]

Genuinely cant be based on players we signed or revenue streams as they are up. The only thing I can think that could be classed as a loophole around EFL could be some backroom staff. i know we brought in a few mid season and EFL might be looking at the impact on that.

As we have the suspended 6 points it easy click bait for journos just to go Reading FC being investigated and in line for points deduction. Where as the truth could be, EFL just want to run the numbers as they wont have full access to our accounts.

So we bring in backroom staff, in order to have a scouting department, improved academy, etc and they punish us for it?

If that is the reasoning then they would be punishing us for trying to get the house in order, and attempting to run the club sensibly.

If in doing so we've gone over our budget, we should be punished.

The FL don't care how well we manage ourselves as a club, they care we meet our financial obligations.

Then we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Let's take the points deduction as, even if it relegates us, it will be worth ignoring their Financial rules to have a properly staffed scouting network and category one academy.

[Orion1871]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

[Stranded]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Whilst that is correct, you shouldn't spend what you haven't got - in terms of FFP things like academy costs simply don't count, so spending on that has no impact on potential breaches here - I'm not sure where scouting etc fits and if it is a cost that counts or not.

[tidus_mi2]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

[Hound]

Fuming if we've trigged the suspended points deduction. Getting pretty tired of the idiots upstairs who can't run a football club, and this dipstick owner!

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Not necessarily if it’s properly investing to be more successful in the future

Don’t think academy costs are counted anyway are they? It at least some exemptions for it

[Royal_jimmy]

Apart from the fact it has the club in a continued bad light and we're still stuck with Yongge, not that fussed by any actual penalty.

We're probably in the best position to manage relegation for half a decade at least. With almost all the high earners out of contract, a swathe of loanees and some quality young players coming through.

When we lose Moore we instantly cut our wage budget by 10% and we don't even need to replace him.

You'd love relegation wouldn't you Ian I know I am looking forward to my first trip to Shrewsbury

[windermereROYAL]

If it isn`t triggered this we could well be starting next season on minus 12 points AND the embargo still in place, probably condemning us to certain relegation, season ticket anyone?

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Not necessarily if it’s properly investing to be more successful in the future

Don’t think academy costs are counted anyway are they? It at least some exemptions for it

Just taken this from the BBC page from back in 2019.

"Money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt."

Now whether that means just investment to improve your facilities or just the academy/training facilities in general, I don't know, I've always assumed it was an investment to making them better, rather than the upkeep of them.

If it is the latter, it only muddies the water further about, what else are we spending money on to be so far over the FFP limits previously? If all training/academy facilities etc are exempt, how have we lost £138m worth of accumulated losses over three seasons? Transfer fees and wages will make up a big proportion I'm sure, but what is the rest made up of?

[kwik-silva]

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

It basically does though. If we assume (I think fairly) that we're near the ceiling of £16m a season on player wages alone, that would be close to 100% of revenue, based on the numbers since 2018-ish. We can't keep running like this without being propped up by the owner (which is all well and good while they're contributing, the moment they stop we're potentially gone as a club).

[Royal_jimmy]

If it isn`t triggered this we could well be starting next season on minus 12 points AND the embargo still in place, probably condemning us to certain relegation, season ticket anyone?

and what player would sign for us if we are in that position

[tidus_mi2]

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

It basically does though. If we assume (I think fairly) that we're near the ceiling of £16m a season on player wages alone, that would be close to 100% of revenue, based on the numbers since 2018-ish. We can't keep running like this without being propped up by the owner (which is all well and good while they're contributing, the moment they stop we're potentially gone as a club).

But that's exactly how the Championship is, either we get owner investment, or we'll forever be in a relegation battle. Even Brentford who had a great model to eventually get out of the division despite no parachute payments, needed a lot of owner investment to get where they were.

Our main problem is our owner investment so far in playing staff has cumulated in overspending on average players, hopefully with a proper backroom team in place, any future owner investment in playing staff will be a lot more measured and sensible.

If we get on by spending within our means, we will be lucky to not be relegated, we are in a position where we need to run at a loss to get a good setup in place while remaining competitive in the division.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

It basically does though. If we assume (I think fairly) that we're near the ceiling of £16m a season on player wages alone, that would be close to 100% of revenue, based on the numbers since 2018-ish. We can't keep running like this without being propped up by the owner (which is all well and good while they're contributing, the moment they stop we're potentially gone as a club).

But that's exactly how the Championship is, either we get owner investment, or we'll forever be in a relegation battle. Even Brentford who had a great model to eventually get out of the division despite no parachute payments, needed a lot of owner investment to get where they were.

Our main problem is our owner investment so far in playing staff has cumulated in overspending on average players, hopefully with a proper backroom team in place, any future owner investment in playing staff will be a lot more measured and sensible.

If we get on by spending within our means, we will be lucky to not be relegated, we are in a position where we need to run at a loss to get a good setup in place while remaining competitive in the division.

It's like the old saying goes, you don't go into money to make football. You rightly mention Brentford, at one stage I think they were spending 170% of turnover on wages, what propped them up as a club was the ability to sell players on for big fees, it's what has taken Birmingham and Bristol City (and likely others) out of trouble for a few years now.

Kieran Maguire mentioned it when he was talking about Preston's finances (that were recently released), he mentioned that the only club who consistently break-even in the Championship is Rotherham and they are relegated every time they come up (this season notwithstanding). That just shows the level of investment needed in a club at this level.

[kwik-silva]

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

It basically does though. If we assume (I think fairly) that we're near the ceiling of £16m a season on player wages alone, that would be close to 100% of revenue, based on the numbers since 2018-ish. We can't keep running like this without being propped up by the owner (which is all well and good while they're contributing, the moment they stop we're potentially gone as a club).

But that's exactly how the Championship is, either we get owner investment, or we'll forever be in a relegation battle. Even Brentford who had a great model to eventually get out of the division despite no parachute payments, needed a lot of owner investment to get where they were.

Our main problem is our owner investment so far in playing staff has cumulated in overspending on average players, hopefully with a proper backroom team in place, any future owner investment in playing staff will be a lot more measured and sensible.

If we get on by spending within our means, we will be lucky to not be relegated, we are in a position where we need to run at a loss to get a good setup in place while remaining competitive in the division.

Sure, but that is different to being affordable, and Reading are still basically the worst club in that sense too. Our wages to turnover has been eyewatering for several years at this point. I think there's overspending, and overspending to the point that if your owner pulls the plug you're literally going out of business - which was a very real possibility at one point (more than one point over the last decade!).

[morganb]

Being discussed on TalkSport now with Mike Keegan of Daily Mail

In brief:

Revenue coming in is fine (inc. MU Cup tie)

Expenditure (wages) is possibly the issue looking at players they have

League are currently reviewing accounts

Knock on for other clubs (i.e. Peterborough who went down last season but abided by the rules could have a case to bring)

Questioning ownership model - what is the source of money coming in? What is the gain for the owner?

What sanctions now? Repeat offenders should be dealt with more harshly

Issue could be Reading being unable to get players off their books but they agreed to business plan

Feel sorry for players and Paul Ince

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Being discussed on TalkSport now with Mike Keegan of Daily Mail

In brief:

Revenue coming in is fine (inc. MU Cup tie)

Expenditure (wages) is possibly the issue looking at players they have

League are currently reviewing accounts

Knock on for other clubs (i.e. Peterborough who went down last season but abided by the rules could have a case to bring)

Questioning ownership model - what is the source of money coming in? What is the gain for the owner?

What sanctions now? Repeat offenders should be dealt with more harshly

Issue could be Reading being unable to get players off their books but they agreed to business plan

Feel sorry for players and Paul Ince

But I don't get the part about "not being able to get players off our books"? The EFL have signed off all of our incoming transfers which surely means we are in line with what they've said?

If they've signed off some of our signings knowing it was going to go over budget (likewise we knew we were going over the budget) and both parties have just accepted that, then what was the point in agreeing to a Business Plan in the first place?

[Snowflake Royal]

So we bring in backroom staff, in order to have a scouting department, improved academy, etc and they punish us for it?

If that is the reasoning then they would be punishing us for trying to get the house in order, and attempting to run the club sensibly.

If in doing so we've gone over our budget, we should be punished.

The FL don't care how well we manage ourselves as a club, they care we meet our financial obligations.

Then we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Let's take the points deduction as, even if it relegates us, it will be worth ignoring their Financial rules to have a properly staffed scouting network and category one academy.

Yeah, that works..let's just take a points deduction every year until we get kicked out the league.

Or maybe we could just run ourselves well, within our means.

[Snowflake Royal]

If they are punishing us for what Ian is suggesting then they are running the club properly, and it is the EFL who are punishing us for doing so.

If it is the case then I can only praise the club as it will be better for us in the long run.

But if it's costing us more than we can afford, then it's not running the club properly.

It's all well and good wanting fantastic facilities, category one academies etc, but if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Basically the first rule of business management.

Just because we have potentially overspent the business plan, doesn't mean it's not affordable.

By definition it does. Because the business plan sets our wage bill at more than our income already.

[kwik-silva]

Being discussed on TalkSport now with Mike Keegan of Daily Mail

In brief:

Revenue coming in is fine (inc. MU Cup tie)

Expenditure (wages) is possibly the issue looking at players they have

League are currently reviewing accounts

Knock on for other clubs (i.e. Peterborough who went down last season but abided by the rules could have a case to bring)

Questioning ownership model - what is the source of money coming in? What is the gain for the owner?

What sanctions now? Repeat offenders should be dealt with more harshly

Issue could be Reading being unable to get players off their books but they agreed to business plan

Feel sorry for players and Paul Ince

But I don't get the part about "not being able to get players off our books"? The EFL have signed off all of our incoming transfers which surely means we are in line with what they've said?

If they've signed off some of our signings knowing it was going to go over budget (likewise we knew we were going over the budget) and both parties have just accepted that, then what was the point in agreeing to a Business Plan in the first place?

You say that like the club has no agency over who it signs, or whether we break the rules. If the club knew a signing was going to send us over budget, they shouldn't be signed. If they didn't know they were going to send us over budget then they should probably hire a better accountant.

[Brogue]

I think it’s pretty piss poor we haven’t had a statement from the club yet. Bowen was supposed to someone who would communicate with fans for the high level stuff. When was the last time he did an interview about what is going on at the club?