Points Deduction AGAIN

[Snowflake Royal]

That's what I'm saying though, if we do breach the conditions of our business plan (as we are still assuming we haven't), then that would probably result in another points deduction I'd imagine.

You need to distinguish between the plan, and a further FFP breach, which aren’t necessarily the same thing, though are likely very closely linked.

Yeah that's what I mean, in the event that they aren't linked, that would be two separate punishments.

So in this case, if this points deduction relates to the historical wrongdoings of the club which is going to result in 6 points being deducted, then we can still get 6 points deducted if someone can prove that we have breached our business plan over the last couple of years?

Not the business plan. FFP. And it would likely be min 9 as a repeat offender

[NathStPaul]

Nameless has now taken the official title of the ‘boards most boring poster and know it all’ off of ian. Never thought I’d see the day.

+1

[tidus_mi2]

You need to distinguish between the plan, and a further FFP breach, which aren’t necessarily the same thing, though are likely very closely linked.

Yeah that's what I mean, in the event that they aren't linked, that would be two separate punishments.

So in this case, if this points deduction relates to the historical wrongdoings of the club which is going to result in 6 points being deducted, then we can still get 6 points deducted if someone can prove that we have breached our business plan over the last couple of years?

Not the business plan. FFP. And it would likely be min 9 as a repeat offender

A repeat offender for something we had already done before we got punished the first time?

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah that's what I mean, in the event that they aren't linked, that would be two separate punishments.

So in this case, if this points deduction relates to the historical wrongdoings of the club which is going to result in 6 points being deducted, then we can still get 6 points deducted if someone can prove that we have breached our business plan over the last couple of years?

Not the business plan. FFP. And it would likely be min 9 as a repeat offender

A repeat offender for something we had already done before we got punished the first time?

YR is talking about getting a punishment beyond the 6 suspended which could only come from a repeat offence.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think the saddest and most eye opening thing about all this is how Reading FC went from largely a third tier nobody, to:

~2004 - 2008 a model for how to run a mid-sized club
~2008 - 2012 a solid mid sized club who couldn't quite step up
~2012 - 2022 - a model for how to run a mid sized club incredibly badly, without, quite, getting relegated

On the plus side, we might be about to become the first side in FL history to get a points deduction two seasons running and still not be relegated. (Fingers crossed) - maybe.

[Delboy]

The EFL have an appeal procedure for any points deduction no talk of where we are , will RFC appeal, a good question for Tim Dellor .

[Sutekh]

The EFL have an appeal procedure for any points deduction no talk of where we are , will RFC appeal, a good question for Tim Dellor .

Reading would not appeal so as to keep the FL friendly towards them in the new regime (and also didn’t the original journalistic piece say something about the two parties agreeing the punishment in the first place).

[Mr Angry]

I think the saddest and most eye opening thing about all this is how Reading FC went from largely a third tier nobody, to:

~2004 - 2008 a model for how to run a mid-sized club
~2008 - 2012 a solid mid sized club who couldn't quite step up
~2012 - 2022 - a model for how to run a mid sized club incredibly badly, without, quite, getting relegated

On the plus side, we might be about to become the first side in FL history to get a points deduction two seasons running and still not be relegated. (Fingers crossed) - maybe.

Woo hoo!!!! Another record to go with the 106!!!

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Not read all this but can someone answer the following?

The EFL statement says they are reviewing adherence to the business plan but Ince has said it has been adhered to by the letter.

So - is there anything in the plan on end of year results 2021/22? (would seem unfair if so as half way through the year when plan set up) or could the plan have been breached pre Ince tenure, but surely its been reviewed since then??

[Royal_jimmy]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

[tmesis]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

I don't think we can know that until we know what we are supposed to have done.

If it is just breaching the conditions that would cause the 6 suspended points to be applied, then it would be 6 points, because that's what a suspended punishment is.

If it's something completely new, then I would expect more than 6. If we were hiding something, then probably a lot more than six.

[Snowball]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

The "problem" with a six-point deduction this season is it will be water off a duck's back.

It's very, VERY unlikely to take us down

So, IF we are penalised this season, I think it will be 12+

If it's just 6 points, I think it would be applied next year.

[PieEater]

I'm not sure how we could have a business plan that could be stuck to if that plan had some component related to shifting outgoing players to reduce wages. That's something the club has little control over when the player can just refuse and sit out their contract.

[Snowball]

The EFL statement says they are reviewing adherence to the business plan but Ince has said it has been adhered to by the letter.

I guess that would depend on the wording.

We might have limited wages/bonuses "as per" but lost maybe a million or more
than predicted and gone over the 3-year limit


That is, we might have "followed the letter" but still failed to stay inside the red lines

[kwik-silva]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

The "problem" with a six-point deduction this season is it will be water off a duck's back.

It's very, VERY unlikely to take us down

So, IF we are penalised this season, I think it will be 12+

If it's just 6 points, I think it would be applied next year.

There are rules around when a punishment is applied. Basically, if it's handed down before the end of March it'll apply this season, after that I believe it's applied next season if the club finish in the bottom three without it, or this season if we finish above that.

The fact that it sounds like it's coming next week suggests it will apply this year.

[Sutekh]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

The "problem" with a six-point deduction this season is it will be water off a duck's back.

It's very, VERY unlikely to take us down

So, IF we are penalised this season, I think it will be 12+

If it's just 6 points, I think it would be applied next year.

There are rules around when a punishment is applied. Basically, if it's handed down before the end of March it'll apply this season, after that I believe it's applied next season if the club finish in the bottom three without it, or this season if we finish above that.

The fact that it sounds like it's coming next week suggests it will apply this year.

Didn’t Wigan get hit with a deduction in June (the penultimate month of the season (so technically the equivalent of the April of the normal season)) when they went down in 2020?

[Ascotexgunner]

I'm getting the feeling it's gonna be 6 points and fear we maybe put under the same financial constraints next season as punishment.
I don't get how we are being hit this hard when other clubs openly seem to be getting away with similar offences and we haven't signed a player in 3 years. Just how old is the offense we have commited?

[Snowflake Royal]

Not read all this but can someone answer the following?

The EFL statement says they are reviewing adherence to the business plan but Ince has said it has been adhered to by the letter.

So - is there anything in the plan on end of year results 2021/22? (would seem unfair if so as half way through the year when plan set up) or could the plan have been breached pre Ince tenure, but surely its been reviewed since then??

I believe that when we were sanctioned in November 2021, we had to meet requirements for the remainder of the season.

If Ince is correct that we have fully adhered to the business plan for this season, my money would be on us failing to meet our requirements during last season following the penalty being applied, possibly by our forecast accounts being too optimistic.

Although I wouldn't expect Ince to be any real expert on the club's finances this season or last season, so could easily be wrong about it being historic.

[Snowflake Royal]

12 point deduction would be very harsh. What we've done is nowhere near as bad as Derby who lost 21 points. We'll have lost 18 in 2 seasons.

It'll be 6 points.

The "problem" with a six-point deduction this season is it will be water off a duck's back.

It's very, VERY unlikely to take us down

So, IF we are penalised this season, I think it will be 12+

If it's just 6 points, I think it would be applied next year.

You can't just change a suspended sentence just because it won’t have a big effect, that is not how enforcing regulation works.

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm getting the feeling it's gonna be 6 points and fear we maybe put under the same financial constraints next season as punishment.
I don't get how we are being hit this hard when other clubs openly seem to be getting away with similar offences and we haven't signed a player in 3 years. Just how old is the offense we have commited?

Bouzanis, Sarr, Mbengue, Dann, Guinnes-Walker, Hutchinson, Hoilett, Ince, Carroll, Long and that's only going back to the start of last season and not complete.