RFC accounts for 2021/2 published

[YorkshireRoyal99]

presuming that salary figure will include.

John Swift - 25k pw

Andy Rinomhota - 5k pw

Josh Laurent - 5k pw

Alen Halilovic - 3k pw

Brandon Barker -2k pw

Michael Morrison 5k pw

Ethan Bristow 2k pw

George Puscas 15k pw

Luke Southwood 2k pw

Örjan Nyland 3k pw

Marc McNulty 5k pw

Felipe Araruna 3k pw

Terell Thomas 2k pw

So all of them are now off the wage bill too?

What do we reckon the wages on the above were? I’ve put my guesstimates above. Around 80k per week in total saved which is 4 mill off the wage bill above. Then with Moore and all leaving this season that’s another 80k off the wage bill. So 8 mill off the 25 mill figure. Which would put us just about where we need to be of 11 mill loses per season 2 mill under the 13 mill allowed if turnover stays the same.

It's probably in the right area, bhut that's assuming that both Pisa and Genoa are paying all of Puscas' wages which I'm not sure whether they will be (or have done in the case of Pisa last season).

A lot of those will have been replaced with Carroll, Mbengue, Dann, Long as well. One thing that may have also helped us was the renewal of other players' contracts, like Holmes and Yiadom, which may have seen their wages come down (especially in the latter's case).

I don't doubt the wage bill will have come down, but I just can't see how/where we've saved the nearly £10m we need to be in line with the agreement for this season.

[Hound]

Interesting* note.

Whilst the total wage bill has gone down from 32m to 25m the number of staff had increased from 192 to 249.

Number of players dropped from 46 to 39 (in 2020 we had 60 listed in the accounts).

Also director renumeration has dropped over 50% year on year from over 740k to just over 300k.

Shudder at the thought of those days in the Clement/Gomes period

Bloody Gomes even made the likes of Gunter, McCleary and Baldock - all no doubts in about 20k pw train with the u21

Edit: also Meyler and Popa. 5m a year down the toilet

Absolutely nuts. When people say what a mess we are now - it was absolutely nothing like the state we were in then

[Hound]

presuming that salary figure will include.

John Swift - 25k pw

Andy Rinomhota - 5k pw

Josh Laurent - 5k pw

Alen Halilovic - 3k pw

Brandon Barker -2k pw

Michael Morrison 5k pw

Ethan Bristow 2k pw

George Puscas 15k pw

Luke Southwood 2k pw

Örjan Nyland 3k pw

Marc McNulty 5k pw

Felipe Araruna 3k pw

Terell Thomas 2k pw

So all of them are now off the wage bill too?

What do we reckon the wages on the above were? I’ve put my guesstimates above. Around 80k per week in total saved which is 4 mill off the wage bill above. Then with Moore and all leaving this season that’s another 80k off the wage bill. So 8 mill off the 25 mill figure. Which would put us just about where we need to be of 11 mill loses per season 2 mill under the 13 mill allowed if turnover stays the same.

It's probably in the right area, bhut that's assuming that both Pisa and Genoa are paying all of Puscas' wages which I'm not sure whether they will be (or have done in the case of Pisa last season).

A lot of those will have been replaced with Carroll, Mbengue, Dann, Long as well. One thing that may have also helped us was the renewal of other players' contracts, like Holmes and Yiadom, which may have seen their wages come down (especially in the latter's case).

I don't doubt the wage bill will have come down, but I just can't see how/where we've saved the nearly £10m we need to be in line with the agreement for this season.

If all is to believed we will have had to have done. They’d have known the wage bill at the start of the seaosn and not signed anyone who pushed us above it. Apparently anyway

[Dirk Gently]

When it's good news that the Wages/turnover ratio is only 150% then you know something is seriously fcuked - not just at this football ground but across the whole game.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

TBF, that's actually a pretty decent drop in our wage budget for 2021/22, with a decent increase in turnover.

If we can sustain that turnover and it wasn't from some financial shenanigans - and we've been on TV a fair amount, with the FA Cup run, so it could be up in the £18m/£19m region, then we could actually get close to turning a profit this season if we've managed to stick to ~£16m wages.

That would be a bit of a coup. Does just show what an absolute cluster oxf*rd of a travesty it was running the club into the ground like that. 234% of turnover on wages ffs.

Sadly I think you've misread our finances Snowflake.

Our total outgoings in the season were something like £42.2m (£25.3m wages and £16.9m other). We received £16.9m in turnover and £8m from Olise to leave us with a £17.3m loss.

If our total wage bill decreases to £16m that means out outgoings will fall to £33.2m. So, even with £19m of revenue, we'd still lose £14.2m - which is above our £13m a season target. And actually, I think the £16m is only including player wages, there is probably something like £3m of non-player wages. And it assumes that our 'other' costs stay the same - which given inflation and energy costs is unlikely.

Well, that's how i'm reading the figures.

You are correct to a degree but those are the headline loss figures, not the EFL P&S.

So this year we have a headline loss of 17.3m but we can take 2.5m off that straight away as a COVID credit - so our loss is down to 14.8m - so to get under 13m we need costs of running the academy, community costs, womens team to be more than 1.8m to avoid a breach.

Wages are interesting - total wages were 25m but this includes all 249 staff at the club - so if the wage costs of the 210 non-playing staff is 4m or more (quite possible) then we have hot the 21.1m target for 21/22.

So if we have breached the business plan in any way, it is going to have been tight.

if this is true we should be within FFP, the women's team and academy combined must cost more than £1.8m surely?

[Elm Park Kid]

Interesting* note.

Whilst the total wage bill has gone down from 32m to 25m the number of staff had increased from 192 to 249.

Number of players dropped from 46 to 39 (in 2020 we had 60 listed in the accounts).

Also director renumeration has dropped over 50% year on year from over 740k to just over 300k.

Whilst being so reliant on an owner is a scary place to be, these accounts do you show the club is taking things seriously when it comes to driving down the costs.

They are more positive than I was expecting given the threat of deductions etc - may well still come but looks like if it is breach of the plan than it hasn't been for the want of trying.

Total staff numbers increased because we didn't have any match day staff in 2020/21 due to the pandemic.

[Elm Park Kid]

TBF, that's actually a pretty decent drop in our wage budget for 2021/22, with a decent increase in turnover.

If we can sustain that turnover and it wasn't from some financial shenanigans - and we've been on TV a fair amount, with the FA Cup run, so it could be up in the £18m/£19m region, then we could actually get close to turning a profit this season if we've managed to stick to ~£16m wages.

That would be a bit of a coup. Does just show what an absolute cluster oxf*rd of a travesty it was running the club into the ground like that. 234% of turnover on wages ffs.

Sadly I think you've misread our finances Snowflake.

Our total outgoings in the season were something like £42.2m (£25.3m wages and £16.9m other). We received £16.9m in turnover and £8m from Olise to leave us with a £17.3m loss.

If our total wage bill decreases to £16m that means out outgoings will fall to £33.2m. So, even with £19m of revenue, we'd still lose £14.2m - which is above our £13m a season target. And actually, I think the £16m is only including player wages, there is probably something like £3m of non-player wages. And it assumes that our 'other' costs stay the same - which given inflation and energy costs is unlikely.

Well, that's how i'm reading the figures.

You are correct to a degree but those are the headline loss figures, not the EFL P&S.

So this year we have a headline loss of 17.3m but we can take 2.5m off that straight away as a COVID credit - so our loss is down to 14.8m - so to get under 13m we need costs of running the academy, community costs, womens team to be more than 1.8m to avoid a breach.

Wages are interesting - total wages were 25m but this includes all 249 staff at the club - so if the wage costs of the 210 non-playing staff is 4m or more (quite possible) then we have hot the 21.1m target for 21/22.

So if we have breached the business plan in any way, it is going to have been tight.

Ah, yes, that's a very good point, I forgot that not everything will count.

I don't think there was any worry that we'd face a breach for losses last season. It will more be whether we stayed beneath the wage cap.

[Stranded]

On the business plan side - the total wages excluding the social security and pension costs was actually 22.4m for all staff.

So for wages to playing staff I can't see how we didn't get under 21.1m unless the wages for 210 non-playing staff came in under 1.3m for the year, which would means we would be paying people on average 6k per season.

Unclear from the business plan though if it means just wages or wages plus social security & pension costs. Probably does but should still be OK I think.

[Hound]

Would a lot of that staff be temp workers just doing a few hours on a Saturday?

But still yeah should be well below I’d have thought

[YorkshireRoyal99]

What do we reckon the wages on the above were? I’ve put my guesstimates above. Around 80k per week in total saved which is 4 mill off the wage bill above. Then with Moore and all leaving this season that’s another 80k off the wage bill. So 8 mill off the 25 mill figure. Which would put us just about where we need to be of 11 mill loses per season 2 mill under the 13 mill allowed if turnover stays the same.

It's probably in the right area, bhut that's assuming that both Pisa and Genoa are paying all of Puscas' wages which I'm not sure whether they will be (or have done in the case of Pisa last season).

A lot of those will have been replaced with Carroll, Mbengue, Dann, Long as well. One thing that may have also helped us was the renewal of other players' contracts, like Holmes and Yiadom, which may have seen their wages come down (especially in the latter's case).

I don't doubt the wage bill will have come down, but I just can't see how/where we've saved the nearly £10m we need to be in line with the agreement for this season.

If all is to believed we will have had to have done. They’d have known the wage bill at the start of the seaosn and not signed anyone who pushed us above it. Apparently anyway

That was the case for last season as well and if it is the wage bill that has sent us over the limit and results in the deductions, then the EFL will have a lot of questions to answer.

[Stranded]

Would a lot of that staff be temp workers just doing a few hours on a Saturday?

But still yeah should be well below I’d have thought

Yes there were 53 matchday staff included whose wages will have been small and 23 on training schemes.

Outside of that, there were 74 management and coaching staff and 60 admin staff. Even if the admin staff were on an average of 18k pa thats 1m in wages just there.

[Vision]

When it's good news that the Wages/turnover ratio is only 150% then you know something is seriously fcuked - not just at this football ground but across the whole game.

My memory (dodgy as it is) reminds me that , with all the talk about relegation being a possible positive reset, that the last time we were in the 3rd tier (over 20 years ago) our wages to turnover ratio wasn't far that. The collapse of ITV digital was a factor in that but there's no doubt that even with "cut our cloth accordingly" owner Madejski to some extent we attempted to buy our way out of the division. Tommy Burns open cheque book - signed off by Nigel Howe and sanctioned by SJM whilst out of the country.

If the current rules were in place we'd have been in a bit of bother even back then.

[3points]

Could do with someone doing a proper breakdown as I’m not capable

What’s the 5,243 figure? Is that payments were still making for player transfers? Presumably Puscas/Joao/ejaria if so

No wonder accountants need a degree to read this stuff

This is the cost of player contract "amortisation" - when you sign a player for value then that cost is spread over the duration of the contract. This number will reduce once Joao, Puscas and Ejaria are no longer in contract. However, it will also mean signing new players for value still becomes tricky as you'd have to add their amortisation in for next year's budget

[3points]

On the business plan side - the total wages excluding the social security and pension costs was actually 22.4m for all staff.

So for wages to playing staff I can't see how we didn't get under 21.1m unless the wages for 210 non-playing staff came in under 1.3m for the year, which would means we would be paying people on average 6k per season.

Unclear from the business plan though if it means just wages or wages plus social security & pension costs. Probably does but should still be OK I think.

EFL business plan will almost definitely include all employment costs of the players, including Employers' NICs

[Clyde1998]

When it's good news that the Wages/turnover ratio is only 150% then you know something is seriously fcuked - not just at this football ground but across the whole game.

My memory (dodgy as it is) reminds me that , with all the talk about relegation being a possible positive reset, that the last time we were in the 3rd tier (over 20 years ago) our wages to turnover ratio wasn't far that. The collapse of ITV digital was a factor in that but there's no doubt that even with "cut our cloth accordingly" owner Madejski to some extent we attempted to buy our way out of the division. Tommy Burns open cheque book - signed off by Nigel Howe and sanctioned by SJM whilst out of the country.

If the current rules were in place we'd have been in a bit of bother even back then.

ITV Digital collapsed around the time of our promotion from Division Two (2001-02). Our promotion that season means it doesn't show up in the accounts as a revenue drop, as being in Div 1 with Sky's reduced TV deal was still an improvement on being in Div 2 with ITV Digitial's TV deal.

Wages to turnover peaked under Madejski at 112% in the 1999-2000 season. In that period we had operating losses around 70% of turnover, largely due to keeping a Division One budget in Division Two - something Madejski could sustain through his own wealth - but even that is under half of the average for the past five seasons. Our wage bill in the 2018-19 season was approaching our 2012-13 Premier League wage bill with massively lower revenues.

Table: Season End, Turnover, Staff Costs, Operating Profit, Net Player Trading, Post-Tax Profit, Operating Profit/Turnover, Wages/Turnover since 1984-85


The promotion seasons in 2005-06 and 2011-12 feature promotion bonuses in the staff costs - in the 2011-12 season, especially, is a major factor as to why the loss for that season was so high. The seasons 2008-09, 2009-10, 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2016-17 all include parachute payments.

The table basically shows if we'd kept our average operating profit/turnover and wages/turnover between the 1984-85 season to 2016-17 season our operating losses would be around £4.6m and wages around £15m p/a with our 2021-22 revenue. If we had the average of the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 figures with our current revenue, it would be operating losses of £11.8m and wages of £18.5m.

In other words, we've been spending significantly more in the past few seasons, in relative terms, than the Burns era.

[Vision]

When it's good news that the Wages/turnover ratio is only 150% then you know something is seriously fcuked - not just at this football ground but across the whole game.

My memory (dodgy as it is) reminds me that , with all the talk about relegation being a possible positive reset, that the last time we were in the 3rd tier (over 20 years ago) our wages to turnover ratio wasn't far that. The collapse of ITV digital was a factor in that but there's no doubt that even with "cut our cloth accordingly" owner Madejski to some extent we attempted to buy our way out of the division. Tommy Burns open cheque book - signed off by Nigel Howe and sanctioned by SJM whilst out of the country.

If the current rules were in place we'd have been in a bit of bother even back then.

ITV Digital collapsed around the time of our promotion from Division Two (2001-02). Our promotion that season means it doesn't show up in the accounts as a revenue drop, as being in Div 1 with Sky's reduced TV deal was still an improvement on being in Div 2 with ITV Digitial's TV deal.

Wages to turnover peaked under Madejski at 112% in the 1999-2000 season. In that period we had operating losses around 70% of turnover, largely due to keeping a Division One budget in Division Two - something Madejski could sustain through his own wealth - but even that is under half of the average for the past five seasons. Our wage bill in the 2018-19 season was approaching our 2012-13 Premier League wage bill with massively lower revenues.

Table: Season End, Turnover, Staff Costs, Operating Profit, Net Player Trading, Post-Tax Profit, Operating Profit/Turnover, Wages/Turnover since 1984-85


The promotion seasons in 2005-06 and 2011-12 feature promotion bonuses in the staff costs - in the 2011-12 season, especially, is a major factor as to why the loss for that season was so high. The seasons 2008-09, 2009-10, 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2016-17 all include parachute payments.

The table basically shows if we'd kept our average operating profit/turnover and wages/turnover between the 1984-85 season to 2016-17 season our operating losses would be around £4.6m and wages around £15m p/a with our 2021-22 revenue. If we had the average of the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 figures with our current revenue, it would be operating losses of £11.8m and wages of £18.5m.

In other words, we've been spending significantly more in the past few seasons, in relative terms, than the Burns era.

I was talking specifically about 3rd tier football though and as a reply to this notion that somehow we'll get relegated and reset.

And 20 years ago, relative to other teams in the 3rd tier at the time, we absolutely tried to buy our way out of that division in much the same way as we have tried in the Championship. The stakes are just way higher now, 20 years later.

[Snowflake Royal]

When it's good news that the Wages/turnover ratio is only 150% then you know something is seriously fcuked - not just at this football ground but across the whole game.

My memory (dodgy as it is) reminds me that , with all the talk about relegation being a possible positive reset, that the last time we were in the 3rd tier (over 20 years ago) our wages to turnover ratio wasn't far that. The collapse of ITV digital was a factor in that but there's no doubt that even with "cut our cloth accordingly" owner Madejski to some extent we attempted to buy our way out of the division. Tommy Burns open cheque book - signed off by Nigel Howe and sanctioned by SJM whilst out of the country.

If the current rules were in place we'd have been in a bit of bother even back then.

ITV Digital collapsed around the time of our promotion from Division Two (2001-02). Our promotion that season means it doesn't show up in the accounts as a revenue drop, as being in Div 1 with Sky's reduced TV deal was still an improvement on being in Div 2 with ITV Digitial's TV deal.

Wages to turnover peaked under Madejski at 112% in the 1999-2000 season. In that period we had operating losses around 70% of turnover, largely due to keeping a Division One budget in Division Two - something Madejski could sustain through his own wealth - but even that is under half of the average for the past five seasons. Our wage bill in the 2018-19 season was approaching our 2012-13 Premier League wage bill with massively lower revenues.

Table: Season End, Turnover, Staff Costs, Operating Profit, Net Player Trading, Post-Tax Profit, Operating Profit/Turnover, Wages/Turnover since 1984-85


The promotion seasons in 2005-06 and 2011-12 feature promotion bonuses in the staff costs - in the 2011-12 season, especially, is a major factor as to why the loss for that season was so high. The seasons 2008-09, 2009-10, 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2016-17 all include parachute payments.

The table basically shows if we'd kept our average operating profit/turnover and wages/turnover between the 1984-85 season to 2016-17 season our operating losses would be around £4.6m and wages around £15m p/a with our 2021-22 revenue. If we had the average of the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 figures with our current revenue, it would be operating losses of £11.8m and wages of £18.5m.

In other words, we've been spending significantly more in the past few seasons, in relative terms, than the Burns era.

OMFG!! How unbelievably irresponsible to increase our staff costs from £28m to £37m and then £41m whilst we're in the Championship. And without parachute payments by that point as well. Both those seasons finishing 20th for oxf*rd sake. Not only is it massive cheating, it's unbelievably incompetent cheating.

It's stark that the Thais were gradually lowering our wage budget and then that absolute pcunting clown Dai came in and completely destroyed us. It's criminal how he's mismanaged us at every conceivable point. No wonder his clubs cease to exist.

Just oxf*rd off. Five years of absolute shit to get our wage bill back to where it started, when it should have been being brought down to about half.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If anything I think it just highlights how absolutely pivotal good recruitment is to success in this league, both incomings and outgoings. Our 2012 wages to turnover percentage is not too dissimilar to that of recent times under Dai, yet our outcome was entirely different.

Hopefully putting that structure of Bowen, Carey and Dublin in place, amongst others in time, will try and get us somewhere back to doing things correctly again and getting that recruitment as accurate as possible. It might also mean less of a reluctance to sell our best players, because it's just something you need to do without parachute payments if you're going to be successful at this level.

[Readingfanman]

Our 2012 staffing costs were very heavily bonus based though for getting promoted. So being at -120% looks bad but we managed to get promotion.

[Brogue]

we should just buy 100 players for 100k each and then sell them all for 200k each. do this every year. simples