As The Dust Settles - The Sombre Thread

[Lower West]

The thinking seems to be that the big clubs bring in the TV viewers, so it helps TV if those clubs are perpetually successful, and if TV is happy, they'll pay more money. What nobody appears to have noticed is those big clubs still bring in the viewers even when they aren't playing well.

Big clubs have become "brands" overseas. That's where these TV viewers reside. Lots of viewers generates advertising revenue. Many involved have little interest in football other than to make money for themselves.

[tmesis]

The thinking seems to be that the big clubs bring in the TV viewers, so it helps TV if those clubs are perpetually successful, and if TV is happy, they'll pay more money. What nobody appears to have noticed is those big clubs still bring in the viewers even when they aren't playing well.

Big clubs have become "brands" overseas. That's where these TV viewers reside. Lots of viewers generates advertising revenue. Many involved have little interest in football other than to make money for themselves.

Yes, but there isn't any need for the leagues and governing bodies to make everything in their favour. Liverpool's generation without a title win didn't seem to hurt their popularity.

[Mr Angry]

Interesting debate.

My take is that this relegation has been coming ever since the Russians bought us; the 2nd promotion to the Premier League was an aberration rather than a sign of things to come.

Relegation is part and parcel of football; we have no God given right to be in the Championship or in any Division; you get wehere you are by results.

I also believe this is time for a reset for the club; we need the owners to have a vision as to what they REALLY want from the Football Club, and then to formulate a proper strategy as to how to achieve that vision. Simply saying "We want to be in the Premiership in 5 years" simply doesn't cut it - we need things to be right of the pitch before we can hope to have sustained success on it.

The managerial appointment that we have to now make (Noel isn't going to be our permanent Manager) is probably the most crucial since we appointed Steve Coppell; it should go to someone who has a clear and unambiguous style of play that he wants to see the team produce, week in, week out, although to start off with it might need to be tempered by who we have in the squad, who we can get in and what are those players strengths.

Hopefully we will be able to see games next season where we might score a couple of goals, or even win away from home. I don't have expectations that we will come straight back up - thats utterly unrealistic. However, I do have expectations that we will be more competitive and I think we need to accept that the limitations of the last couple of seasons will impact us for next season as well.

I am genuinely positive that we can put the last decade of crap behind us and rebuild for the future,

[AthleticoSpizz]

Good and correct post.

For my 10 pence worth, just remember, whoever we appoint as manager will need time to sort this shit-show out (pitchside), evenn the highly experienced Steve Coppell took a while to get it right.

[AthleticoSpizz]

….and, oh well….
We take the Championship 106 record with us to to lay before the the L1 oiks.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I'm sure he is reflecting on his decisions to sell (multiple times) and choices made - clearly with hind sight I suspect wishes he had stuck with it and be foresighted about being a yo yo club - up down up down rake in the parachute payements and very slowly build for the long term future. Its hard to see how we would be any worse off if he'd stay in charge - at least we'd have a ground to call our own

Had the pleasure of being in the Directors box for the QPR fixture some years back. At half time was with SJM and Richard Thomson the then chairman having a cuppa. An interesting conversation ensured between them about their relative abilities to compete with the wall of money that was flowing into the game. In responding to a question from RT, SJM said he had sunk around £40m into the club over his period of ownership. SJM was an astute businessman. He obviously saw the writing on the wall. Time wasn't on his side. I doubt that he expected future owners to asset strip the club. Depriving it of the property and future development potential that he had provided for the financial security of the club.

A football club has no actual value, the only value it has is when it gets sold to the next egotistical tosser. SJM was NEVER that person.
We would be better off with one of his daughters at the top running the club on family lines, the same as fans do

[Lower West]

A football club has no actual value, the only value it has is when it gets sold to the next egotistical tosser. SJM was NEVER that person.
We would be better off with one of his daughters at the top running the club on family lines, the same as fans do

So in your opinion SJM did nothing for the benefit of Reading Football Club during his tenure?

[Elm Park Kid]

All I can say is that I hate the way that modern football operates, especially in the Championship. And I hate that fact that we were part of a ridiculous system where owners set millions of pounds on fire paying ridiculous wages, basically on a whim. It's an environment that pressurises everyone else to spend more than they can afford - putting the very existence of clubs at risk.

I'm glad we got relegated for that crime. I know we're far from the only club that is 'guilty', we were just crap criminals. I'm glad that Wigan got relegated after not paying wages. To be honest, Brum probably deserve to go down with the financial chaos they've engaged in, and i've no idea how Stoke have managed to dance around FFP. Every club that has lost more than £39m than they're allowed to in the last 3/4 season should be relegated and new teams given a chance.

I appreciate how naive this all sounds - and I know that our relegation will bring pain and real hardship to many. But things aren't going to change if everyone is allowed to get away with it all the time. The family suffers when a husband goes to jail, but sometimes husbands have to go to jail.

[TiagoIlori]

Looking back at recent seasons, does make me feel a bit sad we didn’t get the same moments of pure relief this time around (Cardiff away 0-0, West Brom home 0-0 and our incredible comeback for 4-4 v Swansea). Quickly became a side that was always in trouble but knew how to get out of it.

While I’m sure we could’ve built a competitive Championship squad over a summer, it is greatly refreshing that next season is about trying to get promoted or at least around the playoffs, rather than staying up. Been a miserable few years.

[Snowflake Royal]

All I can say is that I hate the way that modern football operates, especially in the Championship. And I hate that fact that we were part of a ridiculous system where owners set millions of pounds on fire paying ridiculous wages, basically on a whim. It's an environment that pressurises everyone else to spend more than they can afford - putting the very existence of clubs at risk.

I'm glad we got relegated for that crime. I know we're far from the only club that is 'guilty', we were just crap criminals. I'm glad that Wigan got relegated after not paying wages. To be honest, Brum probably deserve to go down with the financial chaos they've engaged in, and i've no idea how Stoke have managed to dance around FFP. Every club that has lost more than £39m than they're allowed to in the last 3/4 season should be relegated and new teams given a chance.

I appreciate how naive this all sounds - and I know that our relegation will bring pain and real hardship to many. But things aren't going to change if everyone is allowed to get away with it all the time. The family suffers when a husband goes to jail, but sometimes husbands have to go to jail.

Amen.

[South Coast Royal]

Although this is a sombre thread I heard the following on the radio just now:-
25 years ago:-

Man City were relegated to the third tier
Bournemouth finished 9th in the third tier
Brighton finished second bottom in the 4th tier.

I feel sombre about where and how we are now and that these 3 clubs now play at a very much higher level than we do, as do Brentford, but not totally sombre because if (big IF) the club get it right we can rise from the ashes.

[Sutekh]

Although this is a sombre thread I heard the following on the radio just now:-
25 years ago:-

Man City were relegated to the third tier
Bournemouth finished 9th in the third tier
Brighton finished second bottom in the 4th tier.

I feel sombre about where and how we are now and that these 3 clubs now play at a very much higher level than we do, as do Brentford, but not totally sombre because if (big IF) the club get it right we can rise from the ashes.

This is the final Third Division for the season 1998-99

1 Fulham 46 - 101 Division Champions, promoted (now in tier 1)
2 Walsall 46 - 87 Promoted (now in tier 4)
====================================
3 Manchester City 46 - 82 Promoted through play-offs ( )
4 Gillingham 46 - 80 (now in tier 4)
5 Preston North End 46 - 79 (now in tier 2)
6 Wigan Athletic 46 - 76 (now in tier 3)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Bournemouth 46 - 76 (now in tier 1)
8 Stoke City 46 - 69 (now in tier 2)
9 Chesterfield 46 - 64 (now in tier 5)
10 Millwall 46 - 62 (now in tier 2)
11 Reading 46 - 61 (now in tier 3)
12 Luton Town 46 - 58 (now in tier 2)
13 Bristol Rovers 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
14 Blackpool 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
15 Burnley 46 - 55 (now in tier 1)
16 Notts County 46 - 54 (now in tier 5)
17 Wrexham 46 - 53 (now in tier 4)
18 Colchester United 46 - 52 (now in tier 4)
19 Wycombe Wanderers 46 - 51 (now in tier 3)
20 Oldham Athletic 46 - 51 (now in tier 5)
==========================================================
21 York City 46 - 50 (now in tier 5)
22 Northampton Town 46 - 48 (now in tier 3)
23 Lincoln City 46 - 46 (now in tier 3)
24 Macclesfield Town 46 - 43 (now defunct but replaced with phoenix club now playing at tier 7)

8 of the above clubs are now playing at a higher level while 9 are now at a lower level.

Brentford, Brighton, Hull, Plymouth, Cardiff, Rotherham and Swansea were all in Division 4 that season!

[Stranded]

Although this is a sombre thread I heard the following on the radio just now:-
25 years ago:-

Man City were relegated to the third tier
Bournemouth finished 9th in the third tier
Brighton finished second bottom in the 4th tier.

I feel sombre about where and how we are now and that these 3 clubs now play at a very much higher level than we do, as do Brentford, but not totally sombre because if (big IF) the club get it right we can rise from the ashes.

We were naturally also relegated that year, also:

Charlton were promoted to the PL
Stockport finished 8th in the First Division (Championship)
Crewe finished 11th in the Champ
Bury 17th
Swindon 18th
Port Vale 19th

All of those sides are now in the 3rd or 4th tier with the exception of Bury who were expelled from the League. Stockport dropped as low as the 6th tier and could be playing us next year.

[South Coast Royal]

Although this is a sombre thread I heard the following on the radio just now:-
25 years ago:-

Man City were relegated to the third tier
Bournemouth finished 9th in the third tier
Brighton finished second bottom in the 4th tier.

I feel sombre about where and how we are now and that these 3 clubs now play at a very much higher level than we do, as do Brentford, but not totally sombre because if (big IF) the club get it right we can rise from the ashes.

This is the final Third Division for the season 1998-99

1 Fulham 46 - 101 Division Champions, promoted (now in tier 1)
2 Walsall 46 - 87 Promoted (now in tier 4)
====================================
3 Manchester City 46 - 82 Promoted through play-offs ( )
4 Gillingham 46 - 80 (now in tier 4)
5 Preston North End 46 - 79 (now in tier 2)
6 Wigan Athletic 46 - 76 (now in tier 3)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Bournemouth 46 - 76 (now in tier 1)
8 Stoke City 46 - 69 (now in tier 2)
9 Chesterfield 46 - 64 (now in tier 5)
10 Millwall 46 - 62 (now in tier 2)
11 Reading 46 - 61 (now in tier 3)
12 Luton Town 46 - 58 (now in tier 2)
13 Bristol Rovers 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
14 Blackpool 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
15 Burnley 46 - 55 (now in tier 1)
16 Notts County 46 - 54 (now in tier 5)
17 Wrexham 46 - 53 (now in tier 4)
18 Colchester United 46 - 52 (now in tier 4)
19 Wycombe Wanderers 46 - 51 (now in tier 3)
20 Oldham Athletic 46 - 51 (now in tier 5)
==========================================================
21 York City 46 - 50 (now in tier 5)
22 Northampton Town 46 - 48 (now in tier 3)
23 Lincoln City 46 - 46 (now in tier 3)
24 Macclesfield Town 46 - 43 (now defunct but replaced with phoenix club now playing at tier 7)

8 of the above clubs are now playing at a higher level while 9 are now at a lower level.

Brentford, Brighton, Hull, Plymouth, Cardiff, Rotherham and Swansea were all in Division 4 that season!

An interesting read however 25 years ago was the the 1987/98 season.

[Sutekh]

Although this is a sombre thread I heard the following on the radio just now:-
25 years ago:-

Man City were relegated to the third tier
Bournemouth finished 9th in the third tier
Brighton finished second bottom in the 4th tier.

I feel sombre about where and how we are now and that these 3 clubs now play at a very much higher level than we do, as do Brentford, but not totally sombre because if (big IF) the club get it right we can rise from the ashes.

This is the final Third Division for the season 1998-99

1 Fulham 46 - 101 Division Champions, promoted (now in tier 1)
2 Walsall 46 - 87 Promoted (now in tier 4)
====================================
3 Manchester City 46 - 82 Promoted through play-offs ( )
4 Gillingham 46 - 80 (now in tier 4)
5 Preston North End 46 - 79 (now in tier 2)
6 Wigan Athletic 46 - 76 (now in tier 3)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Bournemouth 46 - 76 (now in tier 1)
8 Stoke City 46 - 69 (now in tier 2)
9 Chesterfield 46 - 64 (now in tier 5)
10 Millwall 46 - 62 (now in tier 2)
11 Reading 46 - 61 (now in tier 3)
12 Luton Town 46 - 58 (now in tier 2)
13 Bristol Rovers 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
14 Blackpool 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
15 Burnley 46 - 55 (now in tier 1)
16 Notts County 46 - 54 (now in tier 5)
17 Wrexham 46 - 53 (now in tier 4)
18 Colchester United 46 - 52 (now in tier 4)
19 Wycombe Wanderers 46 - 51 (now in tier 3)
20 Oldham Athletic 46 - 51 (now in tier 5)
==========================================================
21 York City 46 - 50 (now in tier 5)
22 Northampton Town 46 - 48 (now in tier 3)
23 Lincoln City 46 - 46 (now in tier 3)
24 Macclesfield Town 46 - 43 (now defunct but replaced with phoenix club now playing at tier 7)

8 of the above clubs are now playing at a higher level while 9 are now at a lower level.

Brentford, Brighton, Hull, Plymouth, Cardiff, Rotherham and Swansea were all in Division 4 that season!

An interesting read however 25 years ago was the the 1987/98 season.

Typo... 1987 was 36 years ago! I went for 98/99 as that is going to be 25 years prior to season 23/24.

[South Coast Royal]

This is the final Third Division for the season 1998-99

1 Fulham 46 - 101 Division Champions, promoted (now in tier 1)
2 Walsall 46 - 87 Promoted (now in tier 4)
====================================
3 Manchester City 46 - 82 Promoted through play-offs ( )
4 Gillingham 46 - 80 (now in tier 4)
5 Preston North End 46 - 79 (now in tier 2)
6 Wigan Athletic 46 - 76 (now in tier 3)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Bournemouth 46 - 76 (now in tier 1)
8 Stoke City 46 - 69 (now in tier 2)
9 Chesterfield 46 - 64 (now in tier 5)
10 Millwall 46 - 62 (now in tier 2)
11 Reading 46 - 61 (now in tier 3)
12 Luton Town 46 - 58 (now in tier 2)
13 Bristol Rovers 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
14 Blackpool 46 - 56 (now in tier 3)
15 Burnley 46 - 55 (now in tier 1)
16 Notts County 46 - 54 (now in tier 5)
17 Wrexham 46 - 53 (now in tier 4)
18 Colchester United 46 - 52 (now in tier 4)
19 Wycombe Wanderers 46 - 51 (now in tier 3)
20 Oldham Athletic 46 - 51 (now in tier 5)
==========================================================
21 York City 46 - 50 (now in tier 5)
22 Northampton Town 46 - 48 (now in tier 3)
23 Lincoln City 46 - 46 (now in tier 3)
24 Macclesfield Town 46 - 43 (now defunct but replaced with phoenix club now playing at tier 7)

8 of the above clubs are now playing at a higher level while 9 are now at a lower level.

Brentford, Brighton, Hull, Plymouth, Cardiff, Rotherham and Swansea were all in Division 4 that season!

An interesting read however 25 years ago was the the 1987/98 season.

Typo... 1987 was 36 years ago! I went for 98/99 as that is going to be 25 years prior to season 23/24.

Between us we may have got there in the end.
Always interesting to look at how things can change so quickly in football.

[PATRIQT]

Not sombre about relegation - that's football. I am sombre because of this dipstick owner though. We are not in good hands, and I don't think you'll find many fans who have any confidence left in him.

[Stranded]

An interesting read however 25 years ago was the the 1987/98 season.

97/98 saw Watford, Bristol City and Grimsby promoted from the 3rd tier whilst Brentford, Plymouth, Carlisle and Southend dropped into the basement.

Fulham lost in the 3rd tier play-offs whilst Burnley only just avoided the drop.

In the 4th tier - Notts County won it whilst Macclesfield were also promoted - Torquay and Scarborough made the play-offs - none of those are league clubs as of today. At the bottom, Brighton finished 23rd (only 1 relegation spot taken by Doncaster) having won just 6 games all season. Swansea, Cardiff & Hull also finished in the bottom 5.

[paddy20]

Watched since 1962. I think the problem we have now is that we really don't have a team at all. With all the contracts up it leaves us with probably not more than one or two decent players. We have the under 21's and let's be honest none of them have shone or stand out at all.

Any re-build will depend on the Chinese wanting to put a lot more money into it. We don't have the restrictions of FFP in League 1 and the restrictions there are can be basically bought out by the owners. So I see two scenarios are possible;
1. We get a good experienced manager who is told by the owners they will have plentiful funds to get in the players they want. I can see then we will be fighting for promotion and could easily return first time of asking.
2. Chinese decide it will take too long to get any return or glory from Div 1and only meagre funds are available or they try and offload. We will struggle in Div 1 and will be trying to stave off relegation once again.

We need to hear from the owners or Bowen if he can get to speak to them to say that they are putting everything in to get straight back up, otherwise we will have a long wait, perhaps too long for us oldies!

[ayjaydee]

Watched since 1962. I think the problem we have now is that we really don't have a team at all. With all the contracts up it leaves us with probably not more than one or two decent players. We have the under 21's and let's be honest none of them have shone or stand out at all.

Any re-build will depend on the Chinese wanting to put a lot more money into it. We don't have the restrictions of FFP in League 1 and the restrictions there are can be basically bought out by the owners. So I see two scenarios are possible;
1. We get a good experienced manager who is told by the owners they will have plentiful funds to get in the players they want. I can see then we will be fighting for promotion and could easily return first time of asking.
2. Chinese decide it will take too long to get any return or glory from Div 1and only meagre funds are available or they try and offload. We will struggle in Div 1 and will be trying to stave off relegation once again.

We need to hear from the owners or Bowen if he can get to speak to them to say that they are putting everything in to get straight back up, otherwise we will have a long wait, perhaps too long for us oldies!

Personally I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Too many players at the club are now ingrained in the losing mentality we have had over the past few seasons. Although gutted at the relegation I do think this is an opportunity for a reset.

We need a decent appointment followed by 2/3 transfer windows for the appointee to bring in his own style and players to suit as well as giving an opportunity to sort the wheat from the chaff out of the remaining players. What we don't need is an owner wanting instant results and adopting a Watfordesque manager replacement policy.