As The Dust Settles - The Sombre Thread

[AthleticoSpizz]

Agree…….and once again, Steve Coppell wasn’t exactly an overnight success here.

Give the man time.

[yuomi]

This might be a thread in its own right, and not to get too sombre but, if Dai wants out, how likely is it that we get Roeselare'd?

The debt, the weird patchwork of different owners of different assets of the club, and new L1 status can't exactly be (that) attractive for someone with deep pockets to come and unpick.

It's still pretty soon after the event, but presumably Dai shortly needs to come out and make a public declaration (through Bowen or otherwise) of his commitment to the club and/or intentions for the future?

[AthleticoSpizz]

aint that the truth

[USA_Loyal_Royal]

Moving to a new place today. Found my signed jersey from the side that won promotion to the premier league in 2012 . Gutted that were going to be in the third division next year. Hopefully we can do this rebuild right and come back up stronger!

[JedMaxwell]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I recently became aware of the region beta paradox, which doesn't exactly apply here but is sort of adjacent. In short, for those that don't know, the region beta paradox contends that people put up with a situation which is a bit shit but is just good enough to be bearable, ie. not going for a better job because your current one is just about OK. Sometimes to get out of it you need to take a risk.

Perhaps the chance to get some young, hungry players in and a manager who has something to prove, coupled with the 'freshness' of playing different teams could give everyone the kick up the arse that we need.

There's a lot of variables of course and the next month or two are crucial to get things right behind the scenes, but if we're able to get the majority of things right we could get ourselves into a position to come back stronger.

[Royal_jimmy]

Without playing the big club mentality whether we get promoted next season is solely down to the owner. If he buys into the structure we have in the club and is willing to bankroll 5 million next season so we can have the wages to get us back up then we have every chance, especially with Ince and Carroll and I'm sure many other ok players in the team. If he gives up on us then we have more pain coming our way. Next season is ours for the taking, especially if Sheffield Wednesday win the playoffs.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Without playing the big club mentality whether we get promoted next season is solely down to the owner. If he buys into the structure we have in the club and is willing to bankroll 5 million next season so we can have the wages to get us back up then we have every chance, especially with Ince and Carroll and I'm sure many other ok players in the team. If he gives up on us then we have more pain coming our way. Next season is ours for the taking, especially if Sheffield Wednesday win the playoffs.

I don’t think dai will just give up.

Carroll sounds up for the L1 fight, do we think Ince jnr will stick around?

[Lower West]

I don’t think dai will just give up.

The continuing silence speaks volumes about the man..........

[Royal_jimmy]

I don’t think dai will just give up.

The continuing silence speaks volumes about the man..........

I worry how much the players will pick up on this potentially and affect their game/motivation.

Even if he doesn't speak directly but Dayong Pang communicates on his behalf it would just be nice to hear their thoughts on relegation and their intentions whether it's promotion and Dai is committed to helping the club achieve that or whether Dai will seek a buyer for the club for instance.

After what has been two painful seasons to endure I think it's fair to say the fans deserve to hear something.

[Notts Royal]

I don’t think dai will just give up.

The continuing silence speaks volumes about the man..........

I worry how much the players will pick up on this potentially and affect their game/motivation.

Even if he doesn't speak directly but Dayong Pang communicates on his behalf it would just be nice to hear their thoughts on relegation and their intentions whether it's promotion and Dai is committed to helping the club achieve that or whether Dai will seek a buyer for the club for instance.

After what has been two painful seasons to endure I think it's fair to say the fans deserve to hear something.

Well precisely - it’s hard for anyone to know his intentions when he’s so quiet.

The Thais were in constant communication with the club/fans. Sure they made mistakes along the way but, personally speaking at least, I thought their intentions were good. Obviously the money was an issue there.

I’ve repeatedly criticised Dai on here, based on his actions. I’d like to think he’s learnt the lessons and will allow Bowen et all the chance to rebuild the club. However, it is worrying that Ince was supposedly kept in due to Dai’s reluctance to sack, despite Bowen’s feelings on the matter. And then there’s Kia and his involvement.

If he is prepared to still put the money in, I could see us recruiting well & competing in the top 6. It’s a big IF though

[Snowflake Royal]

Without playing the big club mentality whether we get promoted next season is solely down to the owner. If he buys into the structure we have in the club and is willing to bankroll 5 million next season so we can have the wages to get us back up then we have every chance, especially with Ince and Carroll and I'm sure many other ok players in the team. If he gives up on us then we have more pain coming our way. Next season is ours for the taking, especially if Sheffield Wednesday win the playoffs.

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

[Snowflake Royal]

Moving to a new place today. Found my signed jersey from the side that won promotion to the premier league in 2012 . Gutted that were going to be in the third division next year. Hopefully we can do this rebuild right and come back up stronger!

When (not if) we go up, we can harďly be weaker than this season.

[Stranded]

Without playing the big club mentality whether we get promoted next season is solely down to the owner. If he buys into the structure we have in the club and is willing to bankroll 5 million next season so we can have the wages to get us back up then we have every chance, especially with Ince and Carroll and I'm sure many other ok players in the team. If he gives up on us then we have more pain coming our way. Next season is ours for the taking, especially if Sheffield Wednesday win the playoffs.

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

[Snowflake Royal]

Without playing the big club mentality whether we get promoted next season is solely down to the owner. If he buys into the structure we have in the club and is willing to bankroll 5 million next season so we can have the wages to get us back up then we have every chance, especially with Ince and Carroll and I'm sure many other ok players in the team. If he gives up on us then we have more pain coming our way. Next season is ours for the taking, especially if Sheffield Wednesday win the playoffs.

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

[Stranded]

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

As a general rule, agreed, there may be the off exception if a player is deemed key by the club and new manager and a deal of that length is needed to get it over the line. Would much prefer 2 year deals with options for 1 or 2 more years - that may need to involve a pay rise as part of any extension but allows the club to plan that in.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Spending a lot of money (that we can actually afford) isn't the problem, provided it's spent on the correct players in the right areas that fits the system we want to play, the style of the manager and is a good character, albeit not easy to find.

I don't think we would have to spend mental amounts of money to build a side capable of challenging towards the top end of the table next season (play offs and above) given what we've got at the minute. A few freebies, experienced heads and a couple of good loans should be good enough to see us push at the top end of the table next season. If that doesn't result in promotion, we could look to spend a little bit more in the summer after this one. It just has to be done correctly.

[Greatwesternline]

Throwing money at a problem in a short term panic is what got us into this mess. Its the last thing we should do.

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Dai has a,ways been quiet and said very little / nothing

It’s not how I’d like my owners to be but it hasn’t changed so no need to worry now

[Stranded]

Agreed - spending money in a sensible way is fine but chucking it around got us into the mess, we aren't going to get out of it by repeating the same error.

I have no problem paying a fee for a player that fits the plan, improves the squad and most importantly can see that there would be a sell on value if he succeeds - I won't be too happy if we suddenly fork out for a 32 yo (or older) with no sell on value who may be a short term fix - esp. as there will be plenty of quality available on the free agent market this summer - a market we should be well placed to compete in.

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

Oh I get that but we have been giving out 3 or 4 year contracts to free transfers - Sarr and Ince for example - simply doesn't help on that front. I appreciate that was probably the only way we would get them to join. From an FFP perspective, it is done a bit differently in L1 - the total fee is less important rather when things are paid. So if we sign someone for 3m and the payment plan is over 3 years, then for L1 FFP the player only cost 1m - the length of the contract is fairly moot in that way - though we will naturally want to keep an eye on spending to ensure we don't leave ourselves in a tricky spot if/when we go back up.

[Greatwesternline]

There must be absolutely no more 4 year contracts for anyone over about 25, and certainly not for anyone in our top earners.

4 years should be for quality young players we want to ensure sale value on.

Shouldn't give 3 years to anyone in their 30s either. Except maybe a GK.

They give out long contracts to players with big transfer fees because you ammortise the cost of the transfer fee over the length of the contract. This is key for FFP.

So a player that cost £10m on a 4 season deal "costs" £2.5m a season in transfer fees versus a three year contract where they cost £3.3m a season. You've "saved" £800,000 a season by giving them a 4 year contract. If you are struggling to meet FFP the longer the contract the less each year hurts in terms of big transfer fees.

If their remuneration for the 4th year is less than that £800,000, then your finances look better, and you got a player's services for an extra year, and if they turn out good you have an extra year of potentially selling them for a fee.

Oh I get that but we have been giving out 3 or 4 year contracts to free transfers - Sarr and Ince for example - simply doesn't help on that front. I appreciate that was probably the only way we would get them to join. From an FFP perspective, it is done a bit differently in L1 - the total fee is less important rather when things are paid. So if we sign someone for 3m and the payment plan is over 3 years, then for L1 FFP the player only cost 1m - the length of the contract is fairly moot in that way - though we will naturally want to keep an eye on spending to ensure we don't leave ourselves in a tricky spot if/when we go back up.

I think this is a biggie for Ince. Its quite plausible that relatively in demand players who are 28 29 or 30 start to know they have got one more 3/4 year contract in them. Getting the new contract at 31,32 or 33 will be tough. So a club offering a 4 year is much more attractive than a 3 year. We never really know what was on offer wage wise in a 3 year deal that made the player / club go for a 4 year instead.

4 year deals all things being equal are better, you have 33% longer player licence where they can only play for you. If a 4 year deal costs £1m in total, or a 3 year deal costs £900k, you'd go for the 4 deal everytime.

There is a risk though that a poorly motivated player plays worse in a 4 year deal as they dont need to secure a new contract. That's really where you need a good manager who can motivate a player, but who also is able to buy players with the mentality to always try.

There are an awful lot of footballers out there who dont try that much. Reading seem to have been very good at signing them in recent years. This probably is a Joorabchim influence perhaps. It didnt happen under Pardew, Coppel or McDermot very often.

Counter intuitively, it seems to have been harder for Reading to find well motivated players the better we got. Maybe as you push yoyo status the players know they have more good options.