The dedicated Chris Wilder thread

[blythspartan]

Also posted in the R&G section, Reading manager's records since Mark McGhee arrived in May 1991 (in order of win ratio):

Pos Name - Win Ratio % - Loss Ratio %

1. Alan Pardew - 48.3 - 27.4
2. Brian McDermott (1) - 45.0 - 29.6
3. Steve Coppell - 44.3 - 31.6
4. Mark McGhee - 43.2 - 29.0
5. Jaap Stam - 40.8 - 35.7
6. Mark Bowen - 37.2 - 34.8
7. Nigel Adkins - 36.3 - 38.8
8. Quinn/Gooding - 35.8 - 36.6
9. Steve Clarke - 35.8 - 37.7
10. Veljko Paunovic - 34.9 - 43.3
11. Terry Bullivant - 32.0 - 40.0
12. Paul Ince - 31.0 - 50.0
13. Brian McDermott (2) - 30.0 - 43.3
14. Tommy Burns - 29.4 - 44.1
15. Brendan Rodgers - 26.1 - 47.8
16. Jose Gomes - 23.6 - 39.5
17. Paul Clement - 23.3 - 50.0

Congratulations to Mr Ince and Mr Clement in reaching the magic 50% ratio.

Conclusion - don't appoint managers with the first name of Paul.

I'm amazed Terry the Taxi fared so well - that season was spectacularly s**t!

Ince was worse than Bullivant but I'm not sure it actually felt like it!

And the other obvious fact is that Reading don't spend well when spending big, those pesky Chinese/Thai owners you might say but it was the exact same thing even under SJM as Burns seemed to try and sign anyone who looked like they might be able to kick a ball but he is also one of the worst ever managerial incumbents!

Alan Pardew had the right approach with player investment, spent big when the right option was available that would fit in with the system, but also found several underrated gems for not all that much.

Next fact of the bleedin' obvious - dont buy players when you don't have an established plan/system/style/clue. You have to define a plan/system/style/clue first and for that you need a manager people can trust (and i include a good proportion of a fanbase in that) from the getgo.

I agree with this. Chelsea are a prime example of buying players without any sort of a plan.

[Snowflake Royal]

Burns just overpaid for Scottish nobodies on the assumption the SPL was on a par with England tier 2. Most of it wasn’t.

[From Despair To Where?]

Although, of his 31 signings, both permenant and on loan, only 5 were from the SPL.

McIntyre
Gray
Howie
Reilly
McLaren.

Granted, Reilly was shit and we failed to do due diligence on McLaren but McIntyre (the only one to cost a significant fee) was a more than decent signing and the other 2 were OK.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

He knew what other people had done wrong (not hard). Couldn’t admit anything from him was ought but perfect

Each to their own, but we all know how you get when you don't like someone/something, you'll never admit any good work done. Either way, point still stands that myself (and some others) have made, partly to blame, but not solely to blame and other errors, which he had no impact on, cost him as well as his own mistakes. But I suppose you can keep listening to OMA, I guess.

Absolute nonsense.

I'm just not interested in defending and excusing someone who did badly overall and in the end with their few early successes. So what. Recency is what matters.

You're always making excuses and talking a whole load of waffle.

The irony behind talking a whole load of waffle yet you're saying bottom end League One is better quality than lower end Championship, you'd be happy with 16th/mid table in League One and you think mid table League One is better than lower end Championship.

But again, completely missed the point. Only you and OMA believe I've defended him, when I've categorically said that he isn't blameless, but isn't solely to blame either. But continue to make things up if you wish.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

He knew what other people had done wrong (not hard). Couldn’t admit anything from him was ought but perfect

Each to their own, but we all know how you get when you don't like someone/something, you'll never admit any good work done. Either way, point still stands that myself (and some others) have made, partly to blame, but not solely to blame and other errors, which he had no impact on, cost him as well as his own mistakes. But I suppose you can keep listening to OMA, I guess.

Or everyone can just read the actual words you type out.

You repeatedly take contrary opinions in order to garner reactions, you don't actually believe the things you say.

Aye. And it's there in black and white that I've said he's not blameless, yet not solely to blame either. So just read it, easy.

[Snowflake Royal]

Each to their own, but we all know how you get when you don't like someone/something, you'll never admit any good work done. Either way, point still stands that myself (and some others) have made, partly to blame, but not solely to blame and other errors, which he had no impact on, cost him as well as his own mistakes. But I suppose you can keep listening to OMA, I guess.

Absolute nonsense.

I'm just not interested in defending and excusing someone who did badly overall and in the end with their few early successes. So what. Recency is what matters.

You're always making excuses and talking a whole load of waffle.

The irony behind talking a whole load of waffle yet you're saying bottom end League One is better quality than lower end Championship, you'd be happy with 16th/mid table in League One and you think mid table League One is better than lower end Championship.

But again, completely missed the point. Only you and OMA believe I've defended him, when I've categorically said that he isn't blameless, but isn't solely to blame either. But continue to make things up if you wish.

Well done for showing you haven't understood anything I've said.

The irony of saying I'm making things up while making up things that I haven't said.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Absolute nonsense.

I'm just not interested in defending and excusing someone who did badly overall and in the end with their few early successes. So what. Recency is what matters.

You're always making excuses and talking a whole load of waffle.

The irony behind talking a whole load of waffle yet you're saying bottom end League One is better quality than lower end Championship, you'd be happy with 16th/mid table in League One and you think mid table League One is better than lower end Championship.

But again, completely missed the point. Only you and OMA believe I've defended him, when I've categorically said that he isn't blameless, but isn't solely to blame either. But continue to make things up if you wish.

Well done for showing you haven't understood anything I've said.

The irony of saying I'm making things up while making up things that I haven't said.

So now you're saying you've not said any of those things? I never had you down as a liar Ian, come on.

[Snowflake Royal]

[Sutekh]

Although, of his 32 signings, both permenant and on loan, only 5 were from the SPL.

McIntyre
Gray
Howie
Reilly
McLaren.

Granted, Reilly was shit and we failed to do due diligence on McLaren but McIntyre was a more than decent signing and the other 2 were OK

It was the shit he signed from Newcastle that were a bigger problem.

32? I made it 28

1. Jim McIntyre (£420k from Kilmarnock, March 98)
2. Robert Fleck (£60k from Norwich, March 98)
3. Paddy Kelly (loan from Newcastle, March 98)
4. Scott Howie (£30k from Motherwell, March 98)
5. Jimmy Crawford (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
6. Stuart Gray (£40k from Celtic, March 98)
7. Paul Brayson (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
8. Graeme Murty (£700k from York, June 98)
9. Mass Sarr (£158k from Hadjuk Split, July 98)
10. Mark Reilly (£? from Kilmarnock in August 98)
11. Chris Casper (loan then purchased for about £300k ? in October 98)
12. Andy Wright (loan from Leeds in November 98)
13. Mark McKeever (loan from Sheff Wed in March 99)
14. John Polston (free transfer from Norwich, September 98)
15. Peter van der Kwaak (£? from Dordrecht, July 98)
16. Elroy Kromheer (£250k from PEC Zwolle, July 98)
17. Grant Brenner (£350k from Manchester United, August 98)
18. Neil Clement (loan from West Bromwich Albion, October 98)
19. Andy Gurney (£100k from Torquay United, January 99)
20. Tony Barras (loan then free transfer from York City, March 99)
21. Tony Thorpe (loan from Bristol City, January 99)
22. Sean Evers (£500k from Luton Town, March 99)
23. Keith Scott (£250k from Wycombe Wanderers, March 99)
24. Alan Maybury (loan from Leeds United, March 99)
25. Andy McLaren (£150k from Dundee United, January 99)
26. Nicky Forster (£650k from Birmingham City, July 99)
27. Peter Grant (£ undisclosed from Norwich City, August 99)
28. Neil Smith (£ undisclosed from Fulham, August 99)

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah, fair shout. He signed the Newcastle players because they were Kilmarnock standard tho

Signed McIntyre as a striker didn’t he? And he only started looking ok when he played wing, or was it AM?

[Sutekh]

Yeah, fair shout. He signed the Newcastle players because they were Kilmarnock standard tho

Signed McIntyre as a striker didn’t he? And he only started looking ok when he played wing, or was it AM?

Think Tommy said at the time he joined he had to move quick to give options to the squad that was at Reading and because of that it limited him to players he knew the contractural position of and could be sure of what he was going to get, so Reading wound up with a preponderance of Scottish and/or Newcastle players.

Right on McIntyre, Burns bought him but didn't play him where he excelled. When Pards arrived he shifted him out wide and we suddenly got a player for free!

[From Despair To Where?]

Although, of his 32 signings, both permenant and on loan, only 5 were from the SPL.

McIntyre
Gray
Howie
Reilly
McLaren.

Granted, Reilly was shit and we failed to do due diligence on McLaren but McIntyre was a more than decent signing and the other 2 were OK

It was the shit he signed from Newcastle that were a bigger problem.

32? I made it 28

1. Jim McIntyre (£420k from Kilmarnock, March 98)
2. Robert Fleck (£60k from Norwich, March 98)
3. Paddy Kelly (loan from Newcastle, March 98)
4. Scott Howie (£30k from Motherwell, March 98)
5. Jimmy Crawford (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
6. Stuart Gray (£40k from Celtic, March 98)
7. Paul Brayson (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
8. Graeme Murty (£700k from York, June 98)
9. Mass Sarr (£158k from Hadjuk Split, July 98)
10. Mark Reilly (£? from Kilmarnock in August 98)
11. Chris Casper (loan then purchased for about £300k ? in October 98)
12. Andy Wright (loan from Leeds in November 98)
13. Mark McKeever (loan from Sheff Wed in March 99)
14. John Polston (free transfer from Norwich, September 98)
15. Peter van der Kwaak (£? from Dordrecht, July 98)
16. Elroy Kromheer (£250k from PEC Zwolle, July 98)
17. Grant Brenner (£350k from Manchester United, August 98)
18. Neil Clement (loan from West Bromwich Albion, October 98)
19. Andy Gurney (£100k from Torquay United, January 99)
20. Tony Barras (loan then free transfer from York City, March 99)
21. Tony Thorpe (loan from Bristol City, January 99)
22. Sean Evers (£500k from Luton Town, March 99)
23. Keith Scott (£250k from Wycombe Wanderers, March 99)
24. Alan Maybury (loan from Leeds United, March 99)
25. Andy McLaren (£150k from Dundee United, January 99)
26. Nicky Forster (£650k from Birmingham City, July 99)
27. Peter Grant (£ undisclosed from Norwich City, August 99)
28. Neil Smith (£ undisclosed from Fulham, August 99)

Tbf, I initially counted Tony Barras twice as he came in on a loan and then we signed him permenantly. There's also Grant Smith and Chris Westwood who weren't 1st team players but, yeah, I miscounted and now make it 30. Still, 28 or 30 signings, that's a lot for 16 months.

McIntyre rarely played as a striker at Kilmarnock. No idea why Burns decided he could do it with us.

Not trying defend Burns, he bulked the squad out with a lot of shite but when he spent big (Brebner, Casper, McIntyre, Forster, Murty), he generally got a decent player.

[Pepe the Horseman]

I'm amazed Terry the Taxi fared so well - that season was spectacularly s**t!

Ince was worse than Bullivant but I'm not sure it actually felt like it!

And the other obvious fact is that Reading don't spend well when spending big, those pesky Chinese/Thai owners you might say but it was the exact same thing even under SJM as Burns seemed to try and sign anyone who looked like they might be able to kick a ball but he is also one of the worst ever managerial incumbents!

Alan Pardew had the right approach with player investment, spent big when the right option was available that would fit in with the system, but also found several underrated gems for not all that much.

Next fact of the bleedin' obvious - dont buy players when you don't have an established plan/system/style/clue. You have to define a plan/system/style/clue first and for that you need a manager people can trust (and i include a good proportion of a fanbase in that) from the getgo.

Amen.
For me, I just look at the Coppell 106 side.
By record, the best RFC side ever. 8th in the PL.
Then, with agents whispering in our players ears, and bigger clubs sniffing round, slowly the side was dismantled, earning previously unheard of incoming transfer fees.
Without wishing to sound disrespectful to the departing players, many of the purchasing clubs found out that RFC side were not only about talented players, but about everyone in that side knowing their job, the very important team/squad unity and attitude to work, under the direction of a solid, calm, respected management and scouting team.
The whole was more than the sum of the parts.

Someone should write a book on it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Although, of his 32 signings, both permenant and on loan, only 5 were from the SPL.

McIntyre
Gray
Howie
Reilly
McLaren.

Granted, Reilly was shit and we failed to do due diligence on McLaren but McIntyre was a more than decent signing and the other 2 were OK

It was the shit he signed from Newcastle that were a bigger problem.

32? I made it 28

1. Jim McIntyre (£420k from Kilmarnock, March 98)
2. Robert Fleck (£60k from Norwich, March 98)
3. Paddy Kelly (loan from Newcastle, March 98)
4. Scott Howie (£30k from Motherwell, March 98)
5. Jimmy Crawford (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
6. Stuart Gray (£40k from Celtic, March 98)
7. Paul Brayson (£100k from Newcastle, March 98)
8. Graeme Murty (£700k from York, June 98)
9. Mass Sarr (£158k from Hadjuk Split, July 98)
10. Mark Reilly (£? from Kilmarnock in August 98)
11. Chris Casper (loan then purchased for about £300k ? in October 98)
12. Andy Wright (loan from Leeds in November 98)
13. Mark McKeever (loan from Sheff Wed in March 99)
14. John Polston (free transfer from Norwich, September 98)
15. Peter van der Kwaak (£? from Dordrecht, July 98)
16. Elroy Kromheer (£250k from PEC Zwolle, July 98)
17. Grant Brenner (£350k from Manchester United, August 98)
18. Neil Clement (loan from West Bromwich Albion, October 98)
19. Andy Gurney (£100k from Torquay United, January 99)
20. Tony Barras (loan then free transfer from York City, March 99)
21. Tony Thorpe (loan from Bristol City, January 99)
22. Sean Evers (£500k from Luton Town, March 99)
23. Keith Scott (£250k from Wycombe Wanderers, March 99)
24. Alan Maybury (loan from Leeds United, March 99)
25. Andy McLaren (£150k from Dundee United, January 99)
26. Nicky Forster (£650k from Birmingham City, July 99)
27. Peter Grant (£ undisclosed from Norwich City, August 99)
28. Neil Smith (£ undisclosed from Fulham, August 99)

Tbf, I initially counted Tony Barras twice as he came in on a loan and then we signed him permenantly. There's also Grant Smith and Chris Westwood who weren't 1st team players but, yeah, I miscounted and now make it 30. Still, 28 or 30 signings, that's a lot for 16 months.

McIntyre rarely played as a striker at Kilmarnock. No idea why Burns decided he could do it with us.

Not trying defend Burns, he bulked the squad out with a lot of shite but when he spent big (Brebner, Casper, McIntyre, Forster, Murty), he generally got a decent player.

Brebner was such a loss. Class player. And we all know about Forster and Murty's quality.

Didn’t Casper get sent off for throwing a ball at someone, and break his leg?

[Dirk Gently]

Yeah, fair shout. He signed the Newcastle players because they were Kilmarnock standard tho

Signed McIntyre as a striker didn’t he? And he only started looking ok when he played wing, or was it AM?

Think Tommy said at the time he joined he had to move quick to give options to the squad that was at Reading and because of that it limited him to players he knew the contractural position of and could be sure of what he was going to get, so Reading wound up with a preponderance of Scottish and/or Newcastle players.

Right on McIntyre, Burns bought him but didn't play him where he excelled. When Pards arrived he shifted him out wide and we suddenly got a player for free!

I thought the more interesting metric about Burns's signing was the agent he signed them through. Weren't the vast majority - and all of the magnificent seven - signed through the same agent, who was, coincidentally, Burns's own agent.

[Dirk Gently]

WRTTOP, the smart money says Wilder is going to Hearts.

[Snowflake Royal]

He can surely do better than that.

[Dirk Gently]

Financially secure team which is owned by its supporters and has a place in Europe or a team under financial constraints with an almost anonymous owner whose commitment to the future is completely unknown and about to start in tier 3? I know who I'd choose...

[Snowflake Royal]

Financially secure team which is owned by its supporters and has a place in Europe or a team under financial constraints with an almost anonymous owner whose commitment to the future is completely unknown and about to start in tier 3? I know who I'd choose...

I wasn't comparing to us, he can also surely do better than us, hence why getting him would be such a coup.

[From Despair To Where?]

Brebner was such a loss. Class player. And we all know about Forster and Murty's quality.

Didn’t Casper get sent off for throwing a ball at someone, and break his leg?

That was Gerard Laven who played for Bristol City. Opening game of the season IIRC. Hoofed the ball into the crowd in anger at close range and broke someone's arm


Chris Casper had his career ended by Richard Carpenter away to Cardiff.