New embargo incoming

[Sutekh]

If he was committed to the club he'd make sure the bills are paid on time. Simple as

^THIS. OK you might have an issue once but after discovering the issue you damn well change things to protect yourself and your staff so it doesn't recur. In this case with the late payments, you open an account somewhere in the UK and transfer monies in to that so you are covered with a back up account from which to pay people thus giving yourself a month's grace to get the money over for the following month's payments. There should be no excuse for any club to get caught like this several times.

Re: the HMRC might that just relate to the PAYE owed due to the late payments? Easy enough to get rid of that charge by just paying what's due and, supposedly, the club have the money (though, knowing Reading, it's probably stuck in an account that only allows you to withdraw cash once a year or something).

[Snowflake Royal]

Many clubs have been through these situations and survived... the majority did, in fact.

We now are actually starting to see some concrete things wrong from reliable sources rather than people wetting the bed over things taking a bit of time, lack of statements no one should be looking for anyway and some empty twitter rumours.

There's still no reason for the hystrionics though. Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Many clubs have been through these situations and survived... the majority did, in fact.

We now are actually starting to see some concrete things wrong from reliable sources rather than people wetting the bed over things taking a bit of time, lack of statements no one should be looking for anyway and some empty twitter rumours.

There's still no reason for the hystrionics though. Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Moment of maximum risk is also moment of opportunity. If he's had enough, hopefully there is a suitable buyer out there. But of course, it could be another crook, or worse yet it could all fall through.

Even if we find a good, competent, well intentioned, wealthy buyer (I.e., best outcome), events of this summer + administration could mean a hefty points deduction and rebuilding from L2. But I'd take that outcome right now to be honest.

[Ascotexgunner]

Many clubs have been through these situations and survived... the majority did, in fact.

We now are actually starting to see some concrete things wrong from reliable sources rather than people wetting the bed over things taking a bit of time, lack of statements no one should be looking for anyway and some empty twitter rumours.

There's still no reason for the hystrionics though. Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Moment of maximum risk is also moment of opportunity. If he's had enough, hopefully there is a suitable buyer out there. But of course, it could be another crook, or worse yet it could all fall through.

Even if we find a good, competent, well intentioned, wealthy buyer (I.e., best outcome), events of this summer + administration could mean a hefty points deduction and rebuilding from L2. But I'd take that outcome right now to be honest.

I wonder if that's what we are seeing, the owner scrambling around for a buyer, but who would buy a club in this state? We no longer really own any assets apart from 6 or 7 players.....might own the training ground but big deal, they won't recoup what was spent on it.

Alfie's "what's going on at Reading FC" YouTube documentary which made the owner look less than trustworthy is now coming to fruition.

[Stranded]

I meant that the EFL restrictions wouldn't stop us from paying our tax bill. But non-payment of taxes is obviously an offense under EFL regulations:



https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... n-4-clubs/

So by that it could be that the EFL aren't satisfied with documentation rather than HMRC not getting paid.

It won't be though and this summer gets worse.

I . . . . would suggest that it isn't a documentation problem . . . without going any further (sorry).

I very much expect this is a much wider, much more "end game" style of problem but thanks for confirming of sorts. Once tax is not paid, it doesn't tend to end well - history tells us that we are more likely than not to end up being bought, but probably out of administration and therefore dropping further before we can stabalise and work our way back - and that is the happy path.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

So by that it could be that the EFL aren't satisfied with documentation rather than HMRC not getting paid.

It won't be though and this summer gets worse.

I . . . . would suggest that it isn't a documentation problem . . . without going any further (sorry).

I very much expect this is a much wider, much more "end game" style of problem but thanks for confirming of sorts. Once tax is not paid, it doesn't tend to end well - history tells us that we are more likely than not to end up being bought, but probably out of administration and therefore dropping further before we can stabalise and work our way back - and that is the happy path.

Yeah usually when we see unpaid tax bills and things owed to the HMRC, it's usually a slippery slope that only ends up one way, not just the players not being paid.

I think maybe the fans are right when they said that the statement the other day was a PR stunt from the CEO. How can you possible be committed to the club if you don't pay your players and tax bill? You either aren't committed, don't have the money or both.

I guess we've got to see what sort of response we will put back to the EFL by next Thursday (at the latest). Hardly an ideal start to what was meant to be a reset this summer.

[Hound]

Reckon we’ll have new owners by the end of the year

Could he have not done this shit earlier? 12 point deduction in L1 is miserable

[Hound]

Reckon we’ll have new owners by the end of the year

Could he have not done this shit earlier? 12 point deduction in L1 is miserable

[Stranded]

Reckon we’ll have new owners by the end of the year

Could he have not done this shit earlier? 12 point deduction in L1 is miserable

That is the best possible outcome - we "should" be appealing to someone, especially if they can get the ground back on the cheap.

I'm pretty much expecting a drop down to L2 as I just don't see how we can even begin to recruit a competitive squad whilst this sh*t is going on and likely still that even those that remain will be looking at the exit door.

How can we even realistically name a new manager/coach under these circumstances and training starts Monday - or not, if the proposed fan blockade comes to pass.

[tmesis]

Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Yeah...like you were a lone voice raising concerns in a sea of happy voices.

[On Strings]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

[Elm Park Kid]

Double post

[Elm Park Kid]

This is my 'take':

All of these issue are obviously problems in themselves, and open us up to EFL sanctions. They might dissuade players from signing, companies from supplying us or getting involved in commercial partnerships, and obviously fans from taking out season tickets. None of it is good. However . . . . . . in theory it could all be pretty much resolved by the owner and club fairly quickly. We might end up with a couple more points deductions and an embargo that last longer than we want, but nothing causing long-term damage.

However, everything comes down to the current engagement of the owner and his willingness/ability to deal with this.

In an (of course entirely hypothetical example) that Dai has done a 'runner', has stopped communicating with the club and certainly isn't sending any finances through, we could be in a lot of trouble. Of course there is no public evidence of this, recent events are troublesome but not conclusive in themselves. So, it makes sense that some fans would wonder why others are very worried right now.

[Brogue]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

not sure how many times this has to be said, the FAPPT is not there to pick up on the shenanigans that we are seeing now. It's more about making sure he wasn't a massive paedo or got his money from ill-gotten gains. The EFL have done nothing wrong they are just applying the law to which every club has signed up to.

[On Strings]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

Good on the #DaiOut team came across really well last night in the Twitter Spaces meeting. I think there was over 1000 listening at some point which is fantastic. The guys and gals behind it all came across very well and sensible and have some good ideas going forward, but sadly all of this is totally out of our control.

I did say last week, as I have a good friend at the club, who'd mentioned administration had been talked about for some time as a possibility; but of course Ian Royal barges in and dismissed it as nonsense, as he likes to do. It isn't nonsense, and there are good people at the club who are heart broken by all of this, and angry too, and all have been told to keep quiet - that is no longer working however, and some are starting to speak out anonymously, and being encouraged to do so by the supporters groups as well. And yet there's still more to come out about this entire mess as well, this isn't all of it yet.

I just hope we all put as much energy in to supporting the players this season, as we will be putting in to vent at Dai/Pang. None of this is the players fault and they need some protection when things start to get more heated as the season progresses. If we don't then, then we'll inadvertantly be adding to the Clubs problems.

[Greatwesternline]

PAYE gets paid on the 22nd of each month. Given yesterday was the 22nd, its been at least a month since Reading didnt pay their PAYE.

HMRC wouldnt have told the EFL about a late payment yesterday, they would have waited till the day after to see if funds had cleared i.e. today.

Therefore Reading's infraction relates, at the very best, to May's PAYE cut off, which is based on April's monthly wages.

Soooo...anyone who thinks this might have been a mistake, read this and understand it: For 31 days and counting now, Reading has not paid its PAYE.

[On Strings]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

The FAPPT is not there to pick up on the shenanigans that we are seeing now. It's more about making sure he wasn't a massive paedo or got his money from ill-gotten gains. The EFL have done nothing wrong they are just applying the law to which every club has signed up to.

The EFL FAPPT clearly needs to change though. Providing evidence you have a significant amount of money behind you shouldn't be enough to buy a Football Club. Clearly the current 'test' is not fit for purpose!

[Brogue]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

The FAPPT is not there to pick up on the shenanigans that we are seeing now. It's more about making sure he wasn't a massive paedo or got his money from ill-gotten gains. The EFL have done nothing wrong they are just applying the law to which every club has signed up to.

The EFL FAPPT clearly needs to change though. Providing evidence you have a significant amount of money behind you shouldn't be enough to buy a Football Club. Clearly the current 'test' is not fit for purpose!

no test in the world is going to pick up that an owner is just going to lose interest in the club though. he bought us when? 2016? for 5 years or so we've been ok (ish) we are 7 years in now. How could a test 7 years ago predict whats happening now

[Winston Biscuit]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

Why do people keep blaming the EFL?! If we broke the rules then its our fault.

The Owners & Directors Test (not been called the FAPPT for 12 years) is not there to find the information you think it is. You can read up on what it tries to find and what the disqualifying conditions are here https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-3-owners-and-directors-test/

also, the PL O&DT works slightly differently to the EFL O&DT

[RG30]

Slight amendment to the charge - now Regulation 17: HMRC Reporting.