Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Snowflake Royal]

The cash from 2 / 3 home games a month and the odd televised game isn’t going to be more than initial transfer fees + ST payments we should have taken in over the last month though is it...

We're going to sell, what, 3k - 5k tickets a game max... monthly matchday revenue isn’t going to be more than about £500k max.

[Brogue]

The cash from 2 / 3 home games a month and the odd televised game isn’t going to be more than initial transfer fees + ST payments we should have taken in over the last month though is it...

We're going to sell, what, 3k - 5k tickets a game max... monthly matchday revenue isn’t going to be more than about £500k max.

how many STs are paid for using the finance option? and how many are paid upfront? would be interesting to know that figure. If a lot are putting it on finance maybe the club doesn't get the bumper big payments. But i dunno how it works

[Hound]

some guy on twatter wrote

Remember that the PAYE bill due on 22nd July relates to June payroll, so including final amounts for all those players who left at end of last season (incl likes of Moore etc). Won't have been an insignificant amount so not a surprise it's caused some cashflow problems #readingfc

&

Vital July payroll has been paid as EFL sanctions severe for being late on that, so club probably prioritized that over paying HMRC on time. Cashflow issues should reduce going forward with a lower payroll and more cash inflows when season starts

So it’s still Liam Moore’s fault

[Brogue]

with regards to the deregistering of players that dellor was on about. Has it something to do with clubs under an embargo can only register 25 players.

How many players have we got registered at the moment that class as a senior player? maybe we've exceeded that and need to remove a couple

[Brogue]

some guy on twatter wrote

Remember that the PAYE bill due on 22nd July relates to June payroll, so including final amounts for all those players who left at end of last season (incl likes of Moore etc). Won't have been an insignificant amount so not a surprise it's caused some cashflow problems #readingfc

&

Vital July payroll has been paid as EFL sanctions severe for being late on that, so club probably prioritized that over paying HMRC on time. Cashflow issues should reduce going forward with a lower payroll and more cash inflows when season starts

So it’s still Liam Moore’s fault

everything is, yes.

[Orion1871]

Dellor, also mentioned we are talking to 2 potential investors and from what was mentioned by an apparently reliable HNA poster new investment is close.

But also mentioned potential investors are having trouble dealing with Dai who doesn't seem to be engaging much. He's a disaster

As I've said before, who would get involved with this crook of an owner? Beware of the new investors if they are willing to go into business with this utter charlatan.

[winchester_royal]

The cash from 2 / 3 home games a month and the odd televised game isn’t going to be more than initial transfer fees + ST payments we should have taken in over the last month though is it...

We're going to sell, what, 3k - 5k tickets a game max... monthly matchday revenue isn’t going to be more than about £500k max.

Doubt we've sold many STs in July, most will have been in June that's probably mostly what was used to pay for June's payroll...

As for transfer fees - who knows when the cash is actually received. Would imagine most clubs operate on x day payment terms, and obviously a number of them will be stage payments as well, so trying to manage a cashflow is probably quite difficult.

But yes the crux of the matter is that when your club is operating at a loss (like vast majority of them will be and certainly RFC are), you have limited cash reserves (think we can safely assume this is the case at RFC), and you're struggling to get capital investment/loans from the owner (for whatever reason) then these issues are not going away.

Will be an incredibly difficult tightrope for the finance team to tread. New investment is the only long term solution to this, but finding people willing to invest millions of £'s with limited prospects of return will not be easy.

[blythspartan]

Dellor, also mentioned we are talking to 2 potential investors and from what was mentioned by an apparently reliable HNA poster new investment is close.

But also mentioned potential investors are having trouble dealing with Dai who doesn't seem to be engaging much. He's a disaster

As I've said before, who would get involved with this crook of an owner? Beware of the new investors if they are willing to go into business with this utter charlatan.

Yep, that’s a good point.

I’m not sure how Dellor could possibly know how investment talks are progressing. I naively hope that we can get UK based investors.

[East Grinstead Royal]

De!lor follows Brogue?

[Needle]

Dellor reckons wages have been paid

Also said there is a risk of Selles walking away and signed players being deregistered? Not sure how that works…

Anyway just pay the f’ing bill Dai you cock

There's been plenty of basket case clubs in a worse state than Reading down the years and never has any player been de-registered by the FL so that is plainly a load of arse. However players who don't get paid are, I believe, at liberty to tear up their contracts and walk away so can only presume that is where he's coming from (but as ever there's naff all research).

How many of those clubs have want-away players that haven't played a competitive match yet?

[Sutekh]

But also mentioned potential investors are having trouble dealing with Dai who doesn't seem to be engaging much. He's a disaster

As I've said before, who would get involved with this crook of an owner? Beware of the new investors if they are willing to go into business with this utter charlatan.

Yep, that’s a good point.

I’m not sure how Dellor could possibly know how investment talks are progressing. I naively hope that we can get UK based investors.

Unless Tim is the investor?

[Stranded]

So the best case scenario here is that the club ensured the wage bill was met (as seems to be reported) and that tax payment was put off to allow that and cash will be freed up shortly to pay the tax and we can carry on with recruitment with new investment supposedly on the way.

As a best case, that is shocking. Worst case is that this hangs around for a couple of weeks, turns into another winding up order and recruitment drops off a cliff and management team decide to get the hell out of dodge.

May we live in exciting times.

[CountryRoyal]

So the best case scenario here is that the club ensured the wage bill was met (as seems to be reported) and that tax payment was put off to allow that and cash will be freed up shortly to pay the tax and we can carry on with recruitment with new investment supposedly on the way.

As a best case, that is shocking. Worst case is that this hangs around for a couple of weeks, turns into another winding up order and recruitment drops off a cliff and management team decide to get the hell out of dodge.

May we live in exciting times.

Well now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Stranded]

One for those more in the know that I - if this issue relate to late PAYE for the last month, then how much are we realistically talking here?

Squad wages were down to 16m, so lets say the rest of the wage bill for non-playing staff is another 2m (probably less) - so total wage bill is 18m. If we pay wages equally each month, than the wage bill for June was 1.5m - how much would PAYE be on that amount? 30%, 40%.

So we could be talking an outstanding amount of around 500k?

[Snowflake Royal]

The cash from 2 / 3 home games a month and the odd televised game isn’t going to be more than initial transfer fees + ST payments we should have taken in over the last month though is it...

We're going to sell, what, 3k - 5k tickets a game max... monthly matchday revenue isn’t going to be more than about £500k max.

how many STs are paid for using the finance option? and how many are paid upfront? would be interesting to know that figure. If a lot are putting it on finance maybe the club doesn't get the bumper big payments. But i dunno how it works

That's a good point. I've never done the finance option so didn’t really think of it.

And I guess transfer fees are often in installments too.

[Stranded]

The cash from 2 / 3 home games a month and the odd televised game isn’t going to be more than initial transfer fees + ST payments we should have taken in over the last month though is it...

We're going to sell, what, 3k - 5k tickets a game max... monthly matchday revenue isn’t going to be more than about £500k max.

how many STs are paid for using the finance option? and how many are paid upfront? would be interesting to know that figure. If a lot are putting it on finance maybe the club doesn't get the bumper big payments. But i dunno how it works

That's a good point. I've never done the finance option so didn’t really think of it.

And I guess transfer fees are often in installments too.

With the finance option, wouldn't just be the company offering the finance pay the club in full immediately and then the purchaser has a contract with them to pay them back over 6 or 12 months with x% interest. So it should have zero impact on the club bar the source of funds.

Transfer fees will certainly be in installments unless otherwise agreed between the clubs.

[Clyde1998]

One for those more in the know that I - if this issue relate to late PAYE for the last month, then how much are we realistically talking here?

Squad wages were down to 16m, so lets say the rest of the wage bill for non-playing staff is another 2m (probably less) - so total wage bill is 18m. If we pay wages equally each month, than the wage bill for June was 1.5m - how much would PAYE be on that amount? 30%, 40%.

So we could be talking an outstanding amount of around 500k?

If PAYE includes NICs (both personal and employers') then it's probably around 45%. Without NICs, I'd estimate around 30%.

Although certain groups of staff may not be working in June and therefore not paid: matchday staff spring to mind as I believe they're paid hourly. This would push tax share up, but reducing the outgoings from the club.

[Bristol Paul]

regardless of how much it is, businesses know in advance how much is due and when, it's something planned and budgeted for. Unless you're a complete charlatan and have run out of money that is.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

I think the term 'investor' is being bandied out erroneously.

You invest to get a financial return.

We aren't looking for investors, we're looking for people with money to burn.

It ain't gonna grow if the new model is to live within our means.

[Clyde1998]

I think the term 'investor' is being bandied out erroneously.

You invest to get a financial return.

We aren't looking for investors, we're looking for people with money to burn.

It ain't gonna grow if the new model is to live within our means.

'Funder', 'donator', 'bankroller', 'sugar daddy' - all better terms.