Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Sutekh]

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/embargoes/

ffs

We all knew it was in place otherwise the club would have added to their new faces in the last couple of days, now we've just got to hope the tax bill gets paid by someone pdq - perhaps set up a gofundme (or equivalent) page even if just for LOLs it might make a point somewhere!

[morganb]

Next few days are going to be messy as f*ck people.

Yes, it looks that way. Just a random question but is Lewis Wing still at the club? There’s suggestions that he won’t be available for the friendly tomorrow.

Well he signed a contract before Savage and Savage played v QPR so Wing should be available unless ill or injured (which is probably quite likely given the recent history of this club in that area).

https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2023/j ... g-swansea/

New recruit Lewis Wing could also get his first run-out in the blue and white hoops since his arrival last week.

[blythspartan]

I haven’t called for this in the past but maybe now is the time for the club to provide some clarity about what’s going on. They could at least give an indication of whether we’re in talks with potential investors and when they expect to pay HMRC. I appreciate that they don’t have to tell us oxf*rd all but this latest embargo is a big kick in the teeth at such a crucial time.

I received 3 emails today saying if I couldn’t make the friendly tomorrow I could watch it on Royals TV. I have already paid to watch it, Lol. My positivity is fast disappearing.

[Pepe the Horseman]

I'm gonna be sitting on the pitch after the Swansea game until we get answers. Who's with me?

[WestYorksRoyal]

Sigh. There is nothing we can do but hope he sells. People laugh at our protests and campaigns, but what more can we do?

If he ever attends a game again, we must give him a reception so vitriolic that he is left in no doubt how unwelcome he is.

[Lower West]

If he ever attends a game again, we must give him a reception so vitriolic that he is left in no doubt how unwelcome he is.

One wonders if he's got the freedom to travel currently. Given events back home. Jack Ma simply vanished when he caused displeasure to the State.

[CountryRoyal]

Not being funny but if the powers that be can’t/won’t fulfil minimum obligations of running the club, how highly do people think them explaining to the fans them not fulfilling their minimum obligations, ranks on their list of priorities?

[Hound]

Not being funny but if the powers that be can’t/won’t fulfil minimum obligations of running the club, how highly do people think them explaining to the fans them not fulfilling their minimum obligations, ranks on their list of priorities?

It’s different people who can make those comments to an extent though

I have no time whatsoever for people calling for statements after relegation but do think at least something from Bowen to say why this has happened again and when it might be resolved that would be helpful. If he doesn’t know then suggest it’s even more impossible for him to do his job

Could be Dai has banned him of course from doing so

[Clyde1998]

Not being funny but if the powers that be can’t/won’t fulfil minimum obligations of running the club, how highly do people think them explaining to the fans them not fulfilling their minimum obligations, ranks on their list of priorities?

It’s different people who can make those comments to an extent though

I have no time whatsoever for people calling for statements after relegation but do think at least something from Bowen to say why this has happened again and when it might be resolved that would be helpful. If he doesn’t know then suggest it’s even more impossible for him to do his job

Could be Dai has banned him of course from doing so

What does Bowen know? It's like asking a shop manager at Tesco the tax situation of the company. Tax is dealt with at a different level to Bowen and he probably only finds out when it prevents him from doing his job (ie. we can't sign players), as opposed to him regularly knowing the tax has/hasn't been paid for the month.

[East Grinstead Royal]

Brian Stabler is Finance Director, he should know.

[RG30]

Brian Stabler is Finance Director, he should know.

He retired earlier this year.

[Royal Rother]

Not being funny but if the powers that be can’t/won’t fulfil minimum obligations of running the club, how highly do people think them explaining to the fans them not fulfilling their minimum obligations, ranks on their list of priorities?

It’s different people who can make those comments to an extent though

I have no time whatsoever for people calling for statements after relegation but do think at least something from Bowen to say why this has happened again and when it might be resolved that would be helpful. If he doesn’t know then suggest it’s even more impossible for him to do his job

Could be Dai has banned him of course from doing so

What does Bowen know? It's like asking a shop manager at Tesco the tax situation of the company. Tax is dealt with at a different level to Bowen and he probably only finds out when it prevents him from doing his job (ie. we can't sign players), as opposed to him regularly knowing the tax has/hasn't been paid for the month.

Well, I suppose he might not know when ANY actual payments are going to be made, but PAYE is hardly a confidential Tax with mysterious calculations that only people above Bowen's level would know about.

It's just part of the standard monthly outgoings.

[Hound]

It’s different people who can make those comments to an extent though

I have no time whatsoever for people calling for statements after relegation but do think at least something from Bowen to say why this has happened again and when it might be resolved that would be helpful. If he doesn’t know then suggest it’s even more impossible for him to do his job

Could be Dai has banned him of course from doing so

What does Bowen know? It's like asking a shop manager at Tesco the tax situation of the company. Tax is dealt with at a different level to Bowen and he probably only finds out when it prevents him from doing his job (ie. we can't sign players), as opposed to him regularly knowing the tax has/hasn't been paid for the month.

Well, I suppose he might not know when ANY actual payments are going to be made, but PAYE is hardly a confidential Tax with mysterious calculations that only people above Bowen's level would know about.

It's just part of the standard monthly outgoings.

I’d have assumed the minute he found out about it he was straight on the phone to Dai.

[Elm Park Kid]

There are good commercial reasons (beyond Chinese culture) why the club might have kept quiet. For one, how many of these new signings would have put their name on dotted line if they'd known exactly what trouble we're in? Would the EFL have lifted our embargo? Maybe admitting that we're in a situation where we're guaranteed to not be able to pay bills would just exacerbate things?

Look, I've got no time for people that want to put their heads in the sand. We got relegated to the third tier exclusively due to financial mismanagement and poor ownership of the club. We just lost out on arguably the best manager we could hope to get in the league and our efforts to rebuild for next season have been impacted. We've not paid our staff on time in the past and I heard today that (allegedly) Dai is refusing an EFL demand to put money in a pot to pay future wages. We've missed multiple tax bills and have winding up orders. There's no bedwetting here, no panicking or over-reacting, it's perfectly reason to say that our owners are now a fundamental liability and have lost all right to expect our support. Whether you think protest is a waste of time or not is fair enough, people can do what they want.

Hopefully the owners will get the investment they need soon and these financial issues can be resolved (you really don't need a lot of money in League One to stay out of trouble and it's not like we'd tied down with huge wages or external debts). But, personally, i'm now 'Dai out' regardless.

[Snowflake Royal]

They'll need to follow a clear procedure.

That will involve gathering all the evidence. Obtaining statements etc. Writing up a case, then providing it to the accused giving them time to seek professional advice and provide a further statement having had sight of all the evidence. Then collate any new information, possibly add any of their own comments. Then transfer it to someone, probably a committee, possibly independent of them/the team investigating to then go through all the papers and make a decision.

That'll then be written up. Checked for accuracy. Then issued.


If you want to be covered in case of legal challenge that you haven't followed procedure, that sort of stuff easily takes weeks, often several months.

As an example, the Teaching Regulation Authority can ake something like 2 years to go from receiving a serious report of teacher wrong doing to the decision to kick them out of the profession.

This isn’t a subjective matter though is it? You don’t need to gather information. It’ll take all of 5 mins to find out if we paid wages late 4 times. There shouldn’t be any loopholes on that. It’s black and white, we either paid on time or didn’t and there should be set levels and appropriate sanctions for it

Doesn’t matter. If you want it to stand up to challenge you have to follow a procedure, gather evidence, present evidence for response and then make a decision.

[blythspartan]

There are good commercial reasons (beyond Chinese culture) why the club might have kept quiet. For one, how many of these new signings would have put their name on dotted line if they'd known exactly what trouble we're in? Would the EFL have lifted our embargo? Maybe admitting that we're in a situation where we're guaranteed to not be able to pay bills would just exacerbate things?

Look, I've got no time for people that want to put their heads in the sand. We got relegated to the third tier exclusively due to financial mismanagement and poor ownership of the club. We just lost out on arguably the best manager we could hope to get in the league and our efforts to rebuild for next season have been impacted. We've not paid our staff on time in the past and I heard today that (allegedly) Dai is refusing an EFL demand to put money in a pot to pay future wages. We've missed multiple tax bills and have winding up orders. There's no bedwetting here, no panicking or over-reacting, it's perfectly reason to say that our owners are now a fundamental liability and have lost all right to expect our support. Whether you think protest is a waste of time or not is fair enough, people can do what they want.

Hopefully the owners will get the investment they need soon and these financial issues can be resolved (you really don't need a lot of money in League One to stay out of trouble and it's not like we'd tied down with huge wages or external debts). But, personally, i'm now 'Dai out' regardless.

This is a good post.

Is there a chance that we won’t be able to prove to the EFL that we have enough funds to complete next season?

I was told not to worry this morning, but recent developments are not helping.

[Elm Park Kid]

There are good commercial reasons (beyond Chinese culture) why the club might have kept quiet. For one, how many of these new signings would have put their name on dotted line if they'd known exactly what trouble we're in? Would the EFL have lifted our embargo? Maybe admitting that we're in a situation where we're guaranteed to not be able to pay bills would just exacerbate things?

Look, I've got no time for people that want to put their heads in the sand. We got relegated to the third tier exclusively due to financial mismanagement and poor ownership of the club. We just lost out on arguably the best manager we could hope to get in the league and our efforts to rebuild for next season have been impacted. We've not paid our staff on time in the past and I heard today that (allegedly) Dai is refusing an EFL demand to put money in a pot to pay future wages. We've missed multiple tax bills and have winding up orders. There's no bedwetting here, no panicking or over-reacting, it's perfectly reason to say that our owners are now a fundamental liability and have lost all right to expect our support. Whether you think protest is a waste of time or not is fair enough, people can do what they want.

Hopefully the owners will get the investment they need soon and these financial issues can be resolved (you really don't need a lot of money in League One to stay out of trouble and it's not like we'd tied down with huge wages or external debts). But, personally, i'm now 'Dai out' regardless.

This is a good post.

Is there a chance that we won’t be able to prove to the EFL that we have enough funds to complete next season?

I was told not to worry this morning, but recent developments are not helping.

No, that's not really a thing. We would probably have to go like a month without fulfilling a fixture before they would take that step, and there's no immediate risk of that. It's not like we have landlords who will lock us out of the stadium if we don't pay the rent, we are still paying the players, the EFL will assume that the worst that can happen is we go into administration and are sold. I honestly don't think anyone needs to worry about the existence of the club - we're too big and appealing, with too little external debt. Someone will buy us.

I mean - people say 'don't worry', but we're basically as bad as things can realistically get. Not even able to make free signings in League One at the moment, let alone pay a fee, winding up orders etc.

[PieEater]

The main worry for me is that this is when we should have the most money we should get for the season, if we can't pay our bills now that means we are wholly reliant on Dai to fund the club completely for the season.

Given what's happening I can't see that he's able or willing to do that.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Brian Stabler is Finance Director, he should know.

He retired earlier this year.

[leon]

There are good commercial reasons (beyond Chinese culture) why the club might have kept quiet. For one, how many of these new signings would have put their name on dotted line if they'd known exactly what trouble we're in? Would the EFL have lifted our embargo? Maybe admitting that we're in a situation where we're guaranteed to not be able to pay bills would just exacerbate things?

Look, I've got no time for people that want to put their heads in the sand. We got relegated to the third tier exclusively due to financial mismanagement and poor ownership of the club. We just lost out on arguably the best manager we could hope to get in the league and our efforts to rebuild for next season have been impacted. We've not paid our staff on time in the past and I heard today that (allegedly) Dai is refusing an EFL demand to put money in a pot to pay future wages. We've missed multiple tax bills and have winding up orders. There's no bedwetting here, no panicking or over-reacting, it's perfectly reason to say that our owners are now a fundamental liability and have lost all right to expect our support. Whether you think protest is a waste of time or not is fair enough, people can do what they want.

Hopefully the owners will get the investment they need soon and these financial issues can be resolved (you really don't need a lot of money in League One to stay out of trouble and it's not like we'd tied down with huge wages or external debts). But, personally, i'm now 'Dai out' regardless.

This is a good post.

Is there a chance that we won’t be able to prove to the EFL that we have enough funds to complete next season?

I was told not to worry this morning, but recent developments are not helping.

No, that's not really a thing. We would probably have to go like a month without fulfilling a fixture before they would take that step, and there's no immediate risk of that. It's not like we have landlords who will lock us out of the stadium if we don't pay the rent, we are still paying the players, the EFL will assume that the worst that can happen is we go into administration and are sold. I honestly don't think anyone needs to worry about the existence of the club - we're too big and appealing, with too little external debt. Someone will buy us.

I mean - people say 'don't worry', but we're basically as bad as things can realistically get. Not even able to make free signings in League One at the moment, let alone pay a fee, winding up orders etc.

Nothing to see here. The smart arses don’t think there’s a problem.