Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Jackson Corner]

Just relegate us now and get it over and done with. It was these idiots that said Dai was fit and proper to run our club.

[Sutekh]

So what are the chances of Dai depositing the 125% of funds into the club accounts by Sept 13th? if recent history is anything to go by I`m not hopeful. 13 points could well become 16, when on earth will this ever end?

Probably not much but who knows! Wigan didn't manage it for whatever reason but don't seem to have problems at the moment. The issue is that the Chinese government have put blocks in place making things extremely difficult for Chinese nationals to move money out of China and around the world which is wholly outside of the clubs control. Not making excuses for Dai but not knowing what cashflow he is using to finance the club makes it difficult to understand exactly what the issues are and whether he can do anything to alleviate the problem as I doubt he wants to be manually fiddling about each month.

At the end of the day though the club is mooted to be on the verge of acquiring new investment to presumably cover the day to day operations (which presumably would also need to be cleared by the FL? and, if so, is possibly going to take months (so even more of a reason for the FL not to start flinging points deductions about)) so it seems the owner is trying to do everything he can to get things straight although we all obviously need a change in owners to avoid all this complex financial mess in the first place.

[Brogue]

Just relegate us now and get it over and done with. It was these idiots that said Dai was fit and proper to run our club.

How many times do you have to be told? you have been told repeatedly that the fit and proper test has nothing to do with how the club is being run. just fcuk off

[Orion1871]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

[Brogue]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

The test is to check where the money has come from. Is it dirty Money? That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. This obsession with blaming the EFL for the mess we are in is just becoming tiresome.

[Sutekh]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

Yes we know the FL Fit and Proper Test seems virtually useless but the issue is Dai passed what there is of one when he took over but since then things outside his control have changed which seem to have made cashflow very difficult without other investment being available in clubs - this obviously could not have been predicted in such a test and without the FL running all member club's owners through the test every year there's really not much that can be done (and even if they were running the test on owners regularly and identified owners that were no longer fit and proper just what on earth are they meant to do anyway? Force those owners out when we there's hardly a massive queue of people lining up to take over lower division clubs? You'd find more clubs going out of business and the FL being blamed for it).

Said it before the test needs to be completely overhauled to make it the same for both FL and PL clubs so there's no farces where the PL don't approve someone that the FL does (or vice versa). That requires the FL and PL to resource it properly together or outsource the process to an independent organisation - all costs related to a test should be levied against the club concerned.

[Hound]

I’d hope with the wage bill being significantly lower that he could afford to do that 125%

If he genuinely can’t do this, really he has to sell - tbh don’t care whether it’s his incompetence, the Chinese govt or whatever

Other option is we actively try to sell a player or two. Not going to get much money in for anyone we want to sell but hopefully Holmes or TMc have enough credit to bring us in a bit

[Snowflake Royal]

Just relegate us now and get it over and done with. It was these idiots that said Dai was fit and proper to run our club.

An excellent post marred by just a few subtle details.

1) They didn't, he passed the Owners and Directors test, which is a check as to whether he has sufficient money to run the club at the time of purchase and any unspent convictions that would bar him from company directorship.
2) That test was 6 years ago and doesn’t involve a crystal ball
3) It makes no judgement about intention or competence
4) The recent sanction was imposed by an independent panel who had absolutely nothing to do with the Owners and Directors test.
5) We and the clubs that make up the league signed up to abide by the rules we've broken and the sanctions for doing so.

[Hendo]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

The test is to check where the money has come from. Is it dirty Money? That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. This obsession with blaming the EFL for the mess we are in is just becoming tiresome.

+1, not quite sure what people are looking for from the EFL here - get into their time machine and jump half a decade in the future?

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

Yes we know the FL Fit and Proper Test seems virtually useless but the issue is Dai passed what there is of one when he took over but since then things outside his control have changed which seem to have made cashflow very difficult without other investment being available in clubs - this obviously could not have been predicted in such a test and without the FL running all member club's owners through the test every year there's really not much that can be done (and even if they were running the test on owners regularly and identified owners that were no longer fit and proper just what on earth are they meant to do anyway? Force those owners out when we there's hardly a massive queue of people lining up to take over lower division clubs? You'd find more clubs going out of business and the FL being blamed for it).

Said it before the test needs to be completely overhauled to make it the same for both FL and PL clubs so there's no farces where the PL don't approve someone that the FL does (or vice versa). That requires the FL and PL to resource it properly together or outsource the process to an independent organisation - all costs related to a test should be levied against the club concerned.

THERE. IS. NO. PCUNTING. FIT. AND. PROPER. PERSONS. TEST.

[Loafer]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

The test is to check where the money has come from. Is it dirty Money? That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. This obsession with blaming the EFL for the mess we are in is just becoming tiresome.

+1 it's our fault not the EFL

People always cry and find someone else to blame for their issues

[Hound]

Also as mentioned he has put a ton of money into the club. Fit and Proper wouldn’t determine whether he was an incompetent buffoon or not in any case

There is plenty of things the EFL could do a hell of a lot better. Can’t blame them for Dai though sadly

[Loafer]

The full decision. Makes for interesting reading - we clearly have an incredibly competent lawyer...

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/gc-media-assets.gc.eflservices.co.uk/6882a630-3c35-11ee-8889-71ca1029c2af.pdf

Kendra Potts, and yes she is. I was just talking to a few senior people at the club this morning and they are very impressed with the job she’s doing for us.

Does she work for us full time then or for another firm?

[blythspartan]

I can’t say I am a fan of the EFL, but without their intervention we’d be further up shit creek.

Also, I now want Dai out but I am not sure how much he can be blamed for not being able to transfer funds from China. The owners of Wolves and WBA are also facing the same issues.

[Sanguine]

Alarming that in April of this year we chose to pay players in full, over monies owed to non-playing staff.

[windermereROYAL]

I can’t say I am a fan of the EFL, but without their intervention we’d be further up shit creek.

Also, I now want Dai out but I am not sure how much he can be blamed for not being able to transfer funds from China. The owners of Wolves and WBA are also facing the same issues.

Wolves and WBA have never not paid the wages and taxes that I`m aware of.

[PieEater]

The full decision. Makes for interesting reading - we clearly have an incredibly competent lawyer...

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/gc-media-assets.gc.eflservices.co.uk/6882a630-3c35-11ee-8889-71ca1029c2af.pdf

Kendra Potts, and yes she is. I was just talking to a few senior people at the club this morning and they are very impressed with the job she’s doing for us.

It was quite an interesting read. Basically 1 day late paying twice, then funds not released by the bank for 2 days. Given the circumstances any points deduction seems harsh.. The EFL wanted to give us 9 but dropped it to 4+4. They really seem to be out to get us, or we seem to be falling foul of their new benchmark on punishments, and not accepting the new benchmark makes you liable for further punishment.

Oh and BULLSHIT Brogue!!

[72 bus]

Yeah, the test is oxf*rd great, totally flawless.

Three cheers for the EFL hip hip.

The test is to check where the money has come from. Is it dirty Money? That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. This obsession with blaming the EFL for the mess we are in is just becoming tiresome.

+1 it's our fault not the EFL

People always cry and find someone else to blame for their issues

Oh the irony

[Elm Park Kid]

I would claim that any logical/rational person that understood the purpose of the EFL rules and looked at the way they have been implemented would come to the conclusion that Reading have been treated more than fairly. We've frankly taken the piss for multiple years and each time the EFL have pretty much just done what they're supposed to do.

You have responses on here like "why punish someone for not paying for something when they can't afford to?" or "why punish us for being a day late with a payment?". This is the real world people where that sort of stuff happens all the time. Dai is a billionaire who had every opportunity in the last 6 years to set funds aside in the UK to pay for club operations during emergencies. He had every opportunity to not increase our outgoings so that emergencies were less likely. But he didn't.

We're being punished for the things we've done that deserve punishment and it doesn't help when some in the fan base try to play the victim card and stick their head in the sands. Just grow up and realise that some times you have to take responsibility for your mistakes.

[Hound]

Don’t disagree with the above but have to also accept it’s massively frustrating to the fanbase when we keep getting deductions and embargoes due to the owner - who no one has any time for particularly, keeps getting the team punished in a way that affects the fans for things we’ve had no influence on whatsoever like late wage payments

I mean it’s not ‘us’ that have misbehaved. It’s not the players either who we most identify with. It’s the incompetent owner who we have no control over pretty much alone

Every fan would be of the mindset that the wages should be paid on time, the tax bill should be paid. But it’s us that gets hit when those things don’t happen by having points gained taken away and having trouble signing anyone. I’m sure we all want these problems to go away

It’s a tricky one - you can’t blame fans for being properly annoyed at it all. Think the EFL pushing for a harsher penalty than what was deemed justified isn’t going to improve the mood either