MATCHWATCH : Shrewsbury Town (a)

[Snowflake Royal]

Let's face it, young men are not exactly known for making good decisions and concentrating are they.

[WestYorksRoyal]

What I got from the Hutch interview is that he feels the younger players keep on repeating errors even when told about them and there comes a time with all players where you have to question not just their footballing ability but also whether they do what they are told.

Why so many technically gifted young players. End up playing for non professional teams. Maturity comes with age and experience. Return to the lower professional leagues later in their careers.

It's the club culture that is stopping them learning. The ownership creates chaos that makes players think that they can't make a positive impact and the mess is bigger than them. This leads to excuses and underperformance from the players and manager.

Holmes, Yiadom, Moore...look at the players who come here to die. And the youngsters are meant to be learning off these experienced players.

New ownership needs a change in mindset. No more missed paydays and points deductions. If you deliver on the pitch, the club will flourish. Go and do it; you can't blame the wider situation any more.

Compare that with now, how much easier will youngsters find it to learn?

[traff]

People are saying the manager has lost the dressing room, I would suggest he never had it.
At the first opportunity he tried to side-line the more senior pros, and probably the loudest voices.
Have seen over the years in the workplace that many young or inexperienced mangers find it hard to cope with more experienced or vocal employees.
I believe this is the reason he got rid of Caroll and others as the kids are less likely to question his methods. Clearly finds it easy to work with yes men, which is never a very good idea.
Think this is what Hutchinson is alluding to, so fully expect him to be dropped for the next game. If (god forbid) Selles is still in charge.

[Sutekh]

People are saying the manager has lost the dressing room, I would suggest he never had it.
At the first opportunity he tried to side-line the more senior pros, and probably the loudest voices.
Have seen over the years in the workplace that many young or inexperienced mangers find it hard to cope with more experienced or vocal employees.
I believe this is the reason he got rid of Caroll and others as the kids are less likely to question his methods. Clearly finds it easy to work with yes men, which is never a very good idea.
Think this is what Hutchinson is alluding to, so fully expect him to be dropped for the next game. If (god forbid) Selles is still in charge.

Another Clement but a cut price cr@p version.

[Clyde1998]

No pace in centre defence, which is a big problem.

Hutchinson was at fault for a goal. Knibbs was at fault for a goal and missed a great chance last week. Azeez's confidence is as shot as anyone's.

We'll probably start ok, then get picked off on the break and fall apart.

Abbey for TMac and move TMac in for Hutch?

If they weren’t both left footed I'd 100% play Abbey and McIntyre at CB when both fit.

But I don't see any point talking about McIntyre. He's weeks away from fitness.

I see two options right now.

1) Pick a full first team for the next league game and play them against Arsenal U23s in the Trophy, drilling them all tracking, playing to the whistle and passing and moving in midfield. Hope you can get them a cup win to boost confidence.

2) Play a full reserve side against Arsenal, untainted by the league performances and tell them if they play well and win, they’re the new first team. Then hope, and ease back some of the senior players as appropriate one or two at a time over weeks. If they lose, you've been drilling your first team away from games for two weeks

My 'first team' right now would focus on who is calmest and most positive.

So, let's say option 1:

.....................Button
Yiadom, Dorsett, Abbey, NGW
...............Wing........Craig
Vickers........Savage.........Ballard
.....................Smith

Option 2:

.....................Pereira
Abrefa, Holmes, Bindon, Carson
.............Rushesha, Craig
.Vickers.........Elliott..........Camara
...............Ehibhatiomhan

I don't see what impact both CBs being predominately the same foot makes. If we're wanting to have different footed CBs, I think someone like Holmes would be much more effective with Abbey playing along side him that he has been with his previous CB partners - simply because Abbey would make up for Holmes' lack of pace.

I think we've got to go for a strong side against Arsenal's development side. Pereira will come in (assuming CBC is still injured), but other than that I think we'd need to have a side that will be playing league football - with maybe an opportunity for a couple of players to fit Selles a reason to pick them in the league (thinking Holmes, Mukairu, etc.).

A group of players will be unavailable due to internationals: Elliott (Cameroon), Savage (Wales U21), Abbey (England U20), Ballard (England U19) are all definitely away. Rushesha (Zimbabwe) and Tuma (Malta U21) was named in their nation's provisional squad. I don't believe Dorsett will be away this international break, as Montserrat don't appear to be playing.

With that in mind, I'd probably play:

Pereira
Yiadom - Holmes - Dorsett - NGW
Wing - Craig - McIntyre (if fit)/Hutch
Knibbs - Ehib - Mukairu

[leon]

What I got from the Hutch interview is that he feels the younger players keep on repeating errors even when told about them and there comes a time with all players where you have to question not just their footballing ability but also whether they do what they are told.

Why so many technically gifted young players. End up playing for non professional teams. Maturity comes with age and experience. Return to the lower professional leagues later in their careers.

It's the club culture that is stopping them learning. The ownership creates chaos that makes players think that they can't make a positive impact and the mess is bigger than them. This leads to excuses and underperformance from the players and manager.

Holmes, Yiadom, Moore...look at the players who come here to die. And the youngsters are meant to be learning off these experienced players.

New ownership needs a change in mindset. No more missed paydays and points deductions. If you deliver on the pitch, the club will flourish. Go and do it; you can't blame the wider situation any more.

Compare that with now, how much easier will youngsters find it to learn?

Not buying any of that - this is 100% down to the manager he owns it is his fault

[tmesis]

What I got from the Hutch interview is that he feels the younger players keep on repeating errors even when told about them and there comes a time with all players where you have to question not just their footballing ability but also whether they do what they are told.
Mind you, Hutch and the senior players are far, far from faultless but he was being asked about younger players, arm round etc.

BTW Ian, other posters and I have regularly made the point that these aren't kids picked up from the local park kick about who have never played organised football, some have played international football even.
From a very young age (too young some might say) they have played football where they have been leading 2-1 and seen a game out.
You don't have to be an old pro to understand about protecting what you have got.

I think it was Jaap Stam who was talking about the mentality of higher quality players, saying with premier league quality players, you only have to tell them something once, and they get it. At championship level you had to repeat the instructions.

The young players are probably at the level where it just takes longer to sink in, and that's not a luxury we have. Some, sadly, won't learn, and they'll drift into non-league football. It's important to remember that a lot of these players aren't in the squad because they've been outstanding at youth level, and were thought good enough. They are in because we don't have anyone else.

[Einstein agogo]

We have a crap Captain , it's obvious

[WestYorksRoyal]

Why so many technically gifted young players. End up playing for non professional teams. Maturity comes with age and experience. Return to the lower professional leagues later in their careers.

It's the club culture that is stopping them learning. The ownership creates chaos that makes players think that they can't make a positive impact and the mess is bigger than them. This leads to excuses and underperformance from the players and manager.

Holmes, Yiadom, Moore...look at the players who come here to die. And the youngsters are meant to be learning off these experienced players.

New ownership needs a change in mindset. No more missed paydays and points deductions. If you deliver on the pitch, the club will flourish. Go and do it; you can't blame the wider situation any more.

Compare that with now, how much easier will youngsters find it to learn?

Not buying any of that - this is 100% down to the manager he owns it is his fault

Bullshit. At 2-1 in injury time yesterday, Kelvin ran into the corner before passing it into midfield. We had possession exactly where we wanted it. It is perfectly reasonable to expect experienced players to see the game out, but Yiadom gifted possession back with a ball over the top. Then Hutchinson lost his man from the corner following their attack. Against Orient, Button dropped the ball from a corner.

Selles is shockingly bad, but the senior players are not doing their job either. Those examples are 4 more points alone, which would help a dire situation.

I'm sick of us appointing shit managers, but I'm also sick of players who should know better getting a free pass. Forget off field issues, forget Selles - they know how to win games from these positions and should do better.

And then Hutchinson comes out and says young players aren't ready - how dare he? And what role models do they have to look up to and learn from?

It comes back to recruitment. Morrison was a player who never let off field issues and poor management affect his own personal performance, but those characters have been few and far between.

We need stability off the pitch and a manager with the authority to call players out on moments like this, to hold them accountable. We currently have neither, but it doesn't excuse throwing away points.

[Sutekh]

What I got from the Hutch interview is that he feels the younger players keep on repeating errors even when told about them and there comes a time with all players where you have to question not just their footballing ability but also whether they do what they are told.
Mind you, Hutch and the senior players are far, far from faultless but he was being asked about younger players, arm round etc.

BTW Ian, other posters and I have regularly made the point that these aren't kids picked up from the local park kick about who have never played organised football, some have played international football even.
From a very young age (too young some might say) they have played football where they have been leading 2-1 and seen a game out.
You don't have to be an old pro to understand about protecting what you have got.

I think it was Jaap Stam who was talking about the mentality of higher quality players, saying with premier league quality players, you only have to tell them something once, and they get it. At championship level you had to repeat the instructions.

The young players are probably at the level where it just takes longer to sink in, and that's not a luxury we have. Some, sadly, won't learn, and they'll drift into non-league football. It's important to remember that a lot of these players aren't in the squad because they've been outstanding at youth level, and were thought good enough. They are in because we don't have anyone else.

And this is where the FL have to be careful. All very well flinging embargoes and transfer restrictions around but when teams have shifted all the expensive players and salaries there has to be a balance otherwise the integrity of the league suffers and clubs get caught spiralling down and down. This is why FFP isn't really fit for purpose it's rules have to be enabled in a way to allow punishments to be applied within no more than a year of the offence(s) taking place and not 3/4/5 years later.

[Sutekh]

It's the club culture that is stopping them learning. The ownership creates chaos that makes players think that they can't make a positive impact and the mess is bigger than them. This leads to excuses and underperformance from the players and manager.

Holmes, Yiadom, Moore...look at the players who come here to die. And the youngsters are meant to be learning off these experienced players.

New ownership needs a change in mindset. No more missed paydays and points deductions. If you deliver on the pitch, the club will flourish. Go and do it; you can't blame the wider situation any more.

Compare that with now, how much easier will youngsters find it to learn?

Not buying any of that - this is 100% down to the manager he owns it is his fault

Bullshit. At 2-1 in injury time yesterday, Kelvin ran into the corner before passing it into midfield. We had possession exactly where we wanted it. It is perfectly reasonable to expect experienced players to see the game out, but Yiadom gifted possession back with a ball over the top. Then Hutchinson lost his man from the corner following their attack. Against Orient, Button dropped the ball from a corner.

Selles is shockingly bad, but the senior players are not doing their job either. Those examples are 4 more points alone, which would help a dire situation.

I'm sick of us appointing shit managers, but I'm also sick of players who should know better getting a free pass. Forget off field issues, forget Selles - they know how to win games from these positions and should do better.

And then Hutchinson comes out and says young players aren't ready - how dare he? And what role models do they have to look up to and learn from?

It comes back to recruitment. Morrison was a player who never let off field issues and poor management affect his own personal performance, but those characters have been few and far between.

We need stability off the pitch and a manager with the authority to call players out on moments like this, to hold them accountable. We currently have neither, but it doesn't excuse throwing away points.

They're all to blame player, management, young or old. Everyone could do better. That said when you have a plank making silly substitutions and unable to lead you just get a dispirited rabble, that's why the manager's role is so important. Something the senior management at Reading haven't seemed to realise since the days of Stam and so we've had a catalogue of "nice" people who are primarily coaches and just aren't up to managing all aspects of a football team.

[Snowflake Royal]

Abbey for TMac and move TMac in for Hutch?

If they weren’t both left footed I'd 100% play Abbey and McIntyre at CB when both fit.

But I don't see any point talking about McIntyre. He's weeks away from fitness.

I see two options right now.

1) Pick a full first team for the next league game and play them against Arsenal U23s in the Trophy, drilling them all tracking, playing to the whistle and passing and moving in midfield. Hope you can get them a cup win to boost confidence.

2) Play a full reserve side against Arsenal, untainted by the league performances and tell them if they play well and win, they’re the new first team. Then hope, and ease back some of the senior players as appropriate one or two at a time over weeks. If they lose, you've been drilling your first team away from games for two weeks

My 'first team' right now would focus on who is calmest and most positive.

So, let's say option 1:

.....................Button
Yiadom, Dorsett, Abbey, NGW
...............Wing........Craig
Vickers........Savage.........Ballard
.....................Smith

Option 2:

.....................Pereira
Abrefa, Holmes, Bindon, Carson
.............Rushesha, Craig
.Vickers.........Elliott..........Camara
...............Ehibhatiomhan

I don't see what impact both CBs being predominately the same foot makes. If we're wanting to have different footed CBs, I think someone like Holmes would be much more effective with Abbey playing along side him that he has been with his previous CB partners - simply because Abbey would make up for Holmes' lack of pace.

I think we've got to go for a strong side against Arsenal's development side. Pereira will come in (assuming CBC is still injured), but other than that I think we'd need to have a side that will be playing league football - with maybe an opportunity for a couple of players to fit Selles a reason to pick them in the league (thinking Holmes, Mukairu, etc.).

A group of players will be unavailable due to internationals: Elliott (Cameroon), Savage (Wales U21), Abbey (England U20), Ballard (England U19) are all definitely away. Rushesha (Zimbabwe) and Tuma (Malta U21) was named in their nation's provisional squad. I don't believe Dorsett will be away this international break, as Montserrat don't appear to be playing.

With that in mind, I'd probably play:

Pereira
Yiadom - Holmes - Dorsett - NGW
Wing - Craig - McIntyre (if fit)/Hutch
Knibbs - Ehib - Mukairu

Right footed players often get time at LCB, but it's fairly unusual for a left footed player to play RCB,so there would just be a question mark in my mind over how well it would work. Assuming Abbey is actually left footed.

I wouldn't put Holmes into a struggling team. I think his confidence is gone, I think he needs a settled decent side to return to. But I could be doing him a diservice.

[Elm Park Kid]

What I got from the Hutch interview is that he feels the younger players keep on repeating errors even when told about them and there comes a time with all players where you have to question not just their footballing ability but also whether they do what they are told.
Mind you, Hutch and the senior players are far, far from faultless but he was being asked about younger players, arm round etc.

BTW Ian, other posters and I have regularly made the point that these aren't kids picked up from the local park kick about who have never played organised football, some have played international football even.
From a very young age (too young some might say) they have played football where they have been leading 2-1 and seen a game out.
You don't have to be an old pro to understand about protecting what you have got.

I think it was Jaap Stam who was talking about the mentality of higher quality players, saying with premier league quality players, you only have to tell them something once, and they get it. At championship level you had to repeat the instructions.

The young players are probably at the level where it just takes longer to sink in, and that's not a luxury we have. Some, sadly, won't learn, and they'll drift into non-league football. It's important to remember that a lot of these players aren't in the squad because they've been outstanding at youth level, and were thought good enough. They are in because we don't have anyone else.

And this is where the FL have to be careful. All very well flinging embargoes and transfer restrictions around but when teams have shifted all the expensive players and salaries there has to be a balance otherwise the integrity of the league suffers and clubs get caught spiralling down and down. This is why FFP isn't really fit for purpose it's rules have to be enabled in a way to allow punishments to be applied within no more than a year of the offence(s) taking place and not 3/4/5 years later.

The latest offence was only resolved last week though? Most of our 'punishments' are about maintaining league integrity - obviously a club shouldn't be allowed to spend money on transfers if it's not paying its tax bill. Our spiral isn't being caused by the EFL, it's being caused by an owner who increased outgoings well beyond our income, didn't cut back as quickly as required and then got the hump (or whatever) and decided he didn't want to fund a League One club. We're spiralling because we once again took the awful decision to bring in a manager who had a bit of 'glamour' rather than one with experience. Our failure to pay wages and taxes wasn't the fault of the EFL, we started doing that in the Championship.

If Dai had taken his responsibilities seriously then this season would have probably involved us struggling a bit, but ultimately finishing mid table and then being able to buy again next summer.

[leon]

It's the club culture that is stopping them learning. The ownership creates chaos that makes players think that they can't make a positive impact and the mess is bigger than them. This leads to excuses and underperformance from the players and manager.

Holmes, Yiadom, Moore...look at the players who come here to die. And the youngsters are meant to be learning off these experienced players.

New ownership needs a change in mindset. No more missed paydays and points deductions. If you deliver on the pitch, the club will flourish. Go and do it; you can't blame the wider situation any more.

Compare that with now, how much easier will youngsters find it to learn?

Not buying any of that - this is 100% down to the manager he owns it is his fault

Bullshit. At 2-1 in injury time yesterday, Kelvin ran into the corner before passing it into midfield. We had possession exactly where we wanted it. It is perfectly reasonable to expect experienced players to see the game out, but Yiadom gifted possession back with a ball over the top. Then Hutchinson lost his man from the corner following their attack. Against Orient, Button dropped the ball from a corner.

Selles is shockingly bad, but the senior players are not doing their job either. Those examples are 4 more points alone, which would help a dire situation.

I'm sick of us appointing shit managers, but I'm also sick of players who should know better getting a free pass. Forget off field issues, forget Selles - they know how to win games from these positions and should do better.

And then Hutchinson comes out and says young players aren't ready - how dare he? And what role models do they have to look up to and learn from?

It comes back to recruitment. Morrison was a player who never let off field issues and poor management affect his own personal performance, but those characters have been few and far between.

We need stability off the pitch and a manager with the authority to call players out on moments like this, to hold them accountable. We currently have neither, but it doesn't excuse throwing away points.

So they were all too busy worrying about who owned the club whilst all this fcukwittery was going on? Or it is the managers fault for not sorting out the players or the players or Dai?

Or at least that’s possibly what you’re saying as your argument appears to be all over the shop.

Other than a new manager = everythings ok

[WestYorksRoyal]

Not buying any of that - this is 100% down to the manager he owns it is his fault

Bullshit. At 2-1 in injury time yesterday, Kelvin ran into the corner before passing it into midfield. We had possession exactly where we wanted it. It is perfectly reasonable to expect experienced players to see the game out, but Yiadom gifted possession back with a ball over the top. Then Hutchinson lost his man from the corner following their attack. Against Orient, Button dropped the ball from a corner.

Selles is shockingly bad, but the senior players are not doing their job either. Those examples are 4 more points alone, which would help a dire situation.

I'm sick of us appointing shit managers, but I'm also sick of players who should know better getting a free pass. Forget off field issues, forget Selles - they know how to win games from these positions and should do better.

And then Hutchinson comes out and says young players aren't ready - how dare he? And what role models do they have to look up to and learn from?

It comes back to recruitment. Morrison was a player who never let off field issues and poor management affect his own personal performance, but those characters have been few and far between.

We need stability off the pitch and a manager with the authority to call players out on moments like this, to hold them accountable. We currently have neither, but it doesn't excuse throwing away points.

So they were all too busy worrying about who owned the club whilst all this fcukwittery was going on? Or it is the managers fault for not sorting out the players or the players or Dai?

Or at least that’s possibly what you’re saying as your argument appears to be all over the shop.

Other than a new manager = everythings ok

My argument is that despite off field chaos, despite Selles' selection and subs, we should have won yesterday and the senior players should take responsibility.

Dai and Selles are ensuring we will be near the bottom, but the players can be and should be showing more fight.

[leon]

Bullshit. At 2-1 in injury time yesterday, Kelvin ran into the corner before passing it into midfield. We had possession exactly where we wanted it. It is perfectly reasonable to expect experienced players to see the game out, but Yiadom gifted possession back with a ball over the top. Then Hutchinson lost his man from the corner following their attack. Against Orient, Button dropped the ball from a corner.

Selles is shockingly bad, but the senior players are not doing their job either. Those examples are 4 more points alone, which would help a dire situation.

I'm sick of us appointing shit managers, but I'm also sick of players who should know better getting a free pass. Forget off field issues, forget Selles - they know how to win games from these positions and should do better.

And then Hutchinson comes out and says young players aren't ready - how dare he? And what role models do they have to look up to and learn from?

It comes back to recruitment. Morrison was a player who never let off field issues and poor management affect his own personal performance, but those characters have been few and far between.

We need stability off the pitch and a manager with the authority to call players out on moments like this, to hold them accountable. We currently have neither, but it doesn't excuse throwing away points.

So they were all too busy worrying about who owned the club whilst all this fcukwittery was going on? Or it is the managers fault for not sorting out the players or the players or Dai?

Or at least that’s possibly what you’re saying as your argument appears to be all over the shop.

Other than a new manager = everythings ok

My argument is that despite off field chaos, despite Selles' selection and subs, we should have won yesterday and the senior players should take responsibility.

Dai and Selles are ensuring we will be near the bottom, but the players can be and should be showing more fight.

Oh right.

So happens if we get a decent manger - for example a Chris Wilder and he gets the team organised,fit, and carrying out his (simple but effective) game plan and we start winning games?

Whose fault would all the shit performances thus far have been?

Because that’s what we needed at the start of the season- a decent manager.

[WestYorksRoyal]

So they were all too busy worrying about who owned the club whilst all this fcukwittery was going on? Or it is the managers fault for not sorting out the players or the players or Dai?

Or at least that’s possibly what you’re saying as your argument appears to be all over the shop.

Other than a new manager = everythings ok

My argument is that despite off field chaos, despite Selles' selection and subs, we should have won yesterday and the senior players should take responsibility.

Dai and Selles are ensuring we will be near the bottom, but the players can be and should be showing more fight.

Oh right.

So happens if we get a decent manger - for example a Chris Wilder and he gets the team organised,fit, and carrying out his (simple but effective) game plan and we start winning games?

Whose fault would all the shit performances thus far have been?

Because that’s what we needed at the start of the season- a decent manager.

A decent manager would definitely have us higher up the table. Especially with stability off the field. This is what I mean about accountability from players; Hutchinson lost his man yesterday and blamed all the bigger issues at the club after the game. Off field stability and good manager gives players no excuses to hide behind and makes them be accountable for results. They're not currently doing that.

[Ascotexgunner]

My argument is that despite off field chaos, despite Selles' selection and subs, we should have won yesterday and the senior players should take responsibility.

Dai and Selles are ensuring we will be near the bottom, but the players can be and should be showing more fight.

Oh right.

So happens if we get a decent manger - for example a Chris Wilder and he gets the team organised,fit, and carrying out his (simple but effective) game plan and we start winning games?

Whose fault would all the shit performances thus far have been?

Because that’s what we needed at the start of the season- a decent manager.

A decent manager would definitely have us higher up the table. Especially with stability off the field. This is what I mean about accountability from players; Hutchinson lost his man yesterday and blamed all the bigger issues at the club after the game. Off field stability and good manager gives players no excuses to hide behind and makes them be accountable for results. They're not currently doing that.

Of course he's going to blame the club and anything he can without implicating the manager. He won't blame the manager because we all know what happens to team players that criticize him. And Hutchison's one to talk.. He has been one of the most brainless members of the team on the pitch, this season and last. Some of his decision making has been shocking.

[morganb]

We have a crap Captain , it's obvious

Made it into the EFL League One Team of the Week though hasn't he:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/november/ ... eague-one/

Goes to prove how pointless these things are if you consider how many defenders featured in the league yesterday and how many conceded under 3 goals yet our Andy makes the team

[ILoveMoonPig]

So they were all too busy worrying about who owned the club whilst all this fcukwittery was going on? Or it is the managers fault for not sorting out the players or the players or Dai?

Or at least that’s possibly what you’re saying as your argument appears to be all over the shop.

Other than a new manager = everythings ok

My argument is that despite off field chaos, despite Selles' selection and subs, we should have won yesterday and the senior players should take responsibility.

Dai and Selles are ensuring we will be near the bottom, but the players can be and should be showing more fight.

Oh right.

So happens if we get a decent manger - for example a Chris Wilder and he gets the team organised,fit, and carrying out his (simple but effective) game plan and we start winning games?

Whose fault would all the shit performances thus far have been?

Because that’s what we needed at the start of the season- a decent manager.

I'd agree with that, but add that any like this would have (and definitely now will) look at us and laugh themselves out the door. The ideal job for Chris Wilder and similar manager would be a Huddersfield, Cardiff, QPR etc.