Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I am hearing that there have been redundancies at the club today

[Stranded]

I am hearing that there have been redundancies at the club today

Horrible timing but hardly surprising. On the coaching side, or more administrative staff?

[Elm Park Kid]

The EFL can't force anyone to sell a business. But they could, in theory, throw the club out of the football league if he remained as owner.

I say 'in theory', because in reality it doesn't appear as though the EFL has that authority to do so based on its established rules and precedent. And it's frankly amazing that they even suggested it as a punishment. I'm sure that there's a number of club owners now on the phones to their lawyers (and each other) getting ready to clarify that this is not an option for the EFL. The EFL ultimately serves the interest of owners, not fans, and that's not going to change (well, until the independent regulator comes in.

[WestYorksRoyal]

The judgement is agains the independent commission reaching a more lenient judgement than is being suggested by the EFL. Think they wanted 9 immediate points for us for the wages issue in the summer. It does feel like they're a rabid dog being kept on the leash.

[Snowflake Royal]

Just read. Banning him would've made the sale of the club compulsory within 28 days. Which I'm not sure would be the best thing, any chancer could pick up the club.

Also, what if he didn't sell? How can you force him? Expel the club?

Basically, yes.

This pretty much fits my 'new owner soon or we don’t start next season theory.

He now has to pay £20k in fines. - he won't.
Plus the previously stipulated amount to be held in lieu of paying bills on time, by 12 Jan. - he won't.

Then on 13 Jan he'll need to pay £70k in fines. - he won't
And face further disciplinary action.

That will drag on for a couple of months. At which time he'll be banned from being our owner and ordered to sell yhe club within 28 days. This handily allows us to complete the season to maintain the integrity of thr competition.

We'll then be expellee from the FL when he fails to sell us and won't start next season. L2 will likely start with 23 teams and one less relegation place.

Enjoy everyone.

[Snowflake Royal]

The judgement is agains the independent commission reaching a more lenient judgement than is being suggested by the EFL. Think they wanted 9 immediate points for us for the wages issue in the summer. It does feel like they're a rabid dog being kept on the leash.

Aim high and get a moderate punishment. Aim moderate and get a weak punishment.

Plus it's not like the IC's softly softly approach is proving successful.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Just read. Banning him would've made the sale of the club compulsory within 28 days. Which I'm not sure would be the best thing, any chancer could pick up the club.

Also, what if he didn't sell? How can you force him? Expel the club?

Basically, yes.

This pretty much fits my 'new owner soon or we don’t start next season theory.

He now has to pay £20k in fines. - he won't.
Plus the previously stipulated amount to be held in lieu of paying bills on time, by 12 Jan. - he won't.

Then on 13 Jan he'll need to pay £70k in fines. - he won't
And face further disciplinary action.

That will drag on for a couple of months. At which time he'll be banned from being our owner and ordered to sell yhe club within 28 days. This handily allows us to complete the season to maintain the integrity of thr competition.

We'll then be expellee from the FL when he fails to sell us and won't start next season. L2 will likely start with 23 teams and one less relegation place.

Enjoy everyone.

I think you're overlooking the politics of the situation. An independent regulator is coming, and the PL and EFL are trying to prove it doesn't need to be too powerful. A club under their watch going out of business is just about the worst thing that could happen to them in this context, and is what they'll want to avoid if at all possible.

If our creditors are wracking up and payday is continually missed, then they have genuine concerns about our ability to fulfil a season and expulsion is justified. But Dai seems to be just about getting by doing the bare minimum, even if a bit late at times. I don't think the owner being a dick is enough to go nuclear in this context. Instead it will be a slow death if he doesn't sell.

[Snowflake Royal]

Also, what if he didn't sell? How can you force him? Expel the club?

Basically, yes.

This pretty much fits my 'new owner soon or we don’t start next season theory.

He now has to pay £20k in fines. - he won't.
Plus the previously stipulated amount to be held in lieu of paying bills on time, by 12 Jan. - he won't.

Then on 13 Jan he'll need to pay £70k in fines. - he won't
And face further disciplinary action.

That will drag on for a couple of months. At which time he'll be banned from being our owner and ordered to sell yhe club within 28 days. This handily allows us to complete the season to maintain the integrity of thr competition.

We'll then be expellee from the FL when he fails to sell us and won't start next season. L2 will likely start with 23 teams and one less relegation place.

Enjoy everyone.

I think you're overlooking the politics of the situation. An independent regulator is coming, and the PL and EFL are trying to prove it doesn't need to be too powerful. A club under their watch going out of business is just about the worst thing that could happen to them in this context, and is what they'll want to avoid if at all possible.

If our creditors are wracking up and payday is continually missed, then they have genuine concerns about our ability to fulfil a season and expulsion is justified. But Dai seems to be just about getting by doing the bare minimum, even if a bit late at times. I don't think the owner being a dick is enough to go nuclear in this context. Instead it will be a slow death if he doesn't sell.

I think they have to prove they're tough.

Your argument doesn't work with the facts, because the FL are already pushing tougher and its the Independent Commission that are softening things. They don't really have to worry about the politics.

He's also not just about getting by. He's already been bailed out by sponsors who can't do that regularly,twice.

We're done unless Dai sells. Soon.

[blythspartan]

Basically, yes.

This pretty much fits my 'new owner soon or we don’t start next season theory.

He now has to pay £20k in fines. - he won't.
Plus the previously stipulated amount to be held in lieu of paying bills on time, by 12 Jan. - he won't.

Then on 13 Jan he'll need to pay £70k in fines. - he won't
And face further disciplinary action.

That will drag on for a couple of months. At which time he'll be banned from being our owner and ordered to sell yhe club within 28 days. This handily allows us to complete the season to maintain the integrity of thr competition.

We'll then be expellee from the FL when he fails to sell us and won't start next season. L2 will likely start with 23 teams and one less relegation place.

Enjoy everyone.

I think you're overlooking the politics of the situation. An independent regulator is coming, and the PL and EFL are trying to prove it doesn't need to be too powerful. A club under their watch going out of business is just about the worst thing that could happen to them in this context, and is what they'll want to avoid if at all possible.

If our creditors are wracking up and payday is continually missed, then they have genuine concerns about our ability to fulfil a season and expulsion is justified. But Dai seems to be just about getting by doing the bare minimum, even if a bit late at times. I don't think the owner being a dick is enough to go nuclear in this context. Instead it will be a slow death if he doesn't sell.

I think they have to prove they're tough.

Your argument doesn't work with the facts, because the FL are already pushing tougher and its the Independent Commission that are softening things. They don't really have to worry about the politics.

He's also not just about getting by. He's already been bailed out by sponsors who can't do that regularly,twice.

We're done unless Dai sells. Soon.

Agree.

Personally, I have geared myself up for the worst because I don’t see him selling the club. Maybe, we’ll just finish this season and then expulsion by the EFL.

[Hound]

I’ve assumed that SCL are getting the money back they keep loaning and it’s just been short term loans until this ‘money cleared from china’ nonsense pays them back

Or else they really are (well meaning but) mental

[Clyde1998]

I’ve assumed that SCL are getting the money back they keep loaning and it’s just been short term loans until this ‘money cleared from china’ nonsense pays them back

Or else they really are (well meaning but) mental

From what I've heard it's all been loans. I'd have to imagine they're getting their money back fairly quickly, as I can't imagine SCL are a big enough company to constantly loan the club £1m+ each month without it affecting their business.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Is the next payday this week? Lot's of organisations go early for Christmas.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’ve assumed that SCL are getting the money back they keep loaning and it’s just been short term loans until this ‘money cleared from china’ nonsense pays them back

Or else they really are (well meaning but) mental

From what I've heard it's all been loans. I'd have to imagine they're getting their money back fairly quickly, as I can't imagine SCL are a big enough company to constantly loan the club £1m+ each month without it affecting their business.

It's not £1m though is it. It's supposedly HMRC once and the non-playing staff wages for one month. The majority of the wages are to the players. Few hundred £k maybe.

Not sustainable, but not business breaking and completely unaffordable once or twice.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’ve assumed that SCL are getting the money back they keep loaning and it’s just been short term loans until this ‘money cleared from china’ nonsense pays them back

Or else they really are (well meaning but) mental

I'd assumed they're fronting future sponsorship payments.

[rabidbee]

Also, what if he didn't sell? How can you force him? Expel the club?

Can the FL ban an owner and therefore effectively force a sale or is that just words for the ideal world and nothing more?

If they overreach and force a sale, a court will quash it and their powers will come crashing down. Outside of insolvency and criminal activity, there is no mechanism under UK law to force someone out of a company. That's why the most they can do to raise the stakes is threaten expulsion.

My battery’s almost dead or I might try to search for the league rules on this. Presumably, if the rules provide, they could give a club an ultimatum to remove an owner/director within a specified time or face sanction, up to expulsion from the league. Can’t imagine they’d ever do it for something like this, we’d never get through a league season.

[Royals and Racers]

Wigan fans on X not happy that they got points docked for failing to lodge the 125% bond whereas Dai gets the fine.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Wigan fans on X not happy that they got points docked for failing to lodge the 125% bond whereas Dai gets the fine.

But we got docked points too? If they could be bothered to look at the different timelines and scale of wage payment issues it would make sense.

[Stranded]

Wigan fans on X not happy that they got points docked for failing to lodge the 125% bond whereas Dai gets the fine.

But we got docked points too? If they could be bothered to look at the different timelines and scale of wage payment issues it would make sense.

Quite, we got 3 docked for not doing it - this is a separate Owner related charge.

[Sutekh]

Wigan fans on X not happy that they got points docked for failing to lodge the 125% bond whereas Dai gets the fine.

But we got docked points too? If they could be bothered to look at the different timelines and scale of wage payment issues it would make sense.

Quite, we got 3 docked for not doing it - this is a separate Owner related charge.

Did their owner face the same charges as Dai when he failed to set up the requested account?

[Stranded]

But we got docked points too? If they could be bothered to look at the different timelines and scale of wage payment issues it would make sense.

Quite, we got 3 docked for not doing it - this is a separate Owner related charge.

Did their owner face the same charges as Dai when he failed to set up the requested account?

yes he did