Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Clyde1998]

At 10:50 on today's appearance at Parliament:

Damian Green: If you disqualify Dai, what happens to the club.

Parry: The logical consequence is that the owner sells the club. Whether Dai will do anything logical remains to be seen. We'll continue to explore every avenue open to us. We can't promise it will work. Normally clubs go into administration, which at least starts a procecss. It's extraordinary that there is an owner who simply refuses to do anything. That's a new one.

DG: If the owner doesn't want to sell, there's little anyone can do.

RP: A good thing about the proposed regulator is that it includes a power to force a sale.

Except it's not unprecedented or extraordinary. The Bury owner rejected several takeover offers, some news ones even arriving after the countdown clock had started. It's certainly unusual but the EFL saw a club end this way very recently.

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

[skipper]

Except it's not unprecedented or extraordinary. The Bury owner rejected several takeover offers, some news ones even arriving after the countdown clock had started. It's certainly unusual but the EFL saw a club end this way very recently.

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

Would free-agent Jessie Lingard really have signed for Nottingham Forest over West Ham if the money haven't been off the charts? He'd have stayed with the club that was giving him first team football, he was being successful with. It's all motivated by greed. From the owners to the agents to the players.

And it needs to stop,

[RoyalBlue]

At 10:50 on today's appearance at Parliament:

Damian Green: If you disqualify Dai, what happens to the club.

Parry: The logical consequence is that the owner sells the club. Whether Dai will do anything logical remains to be seen. We'll continue to explore every avenue open to us. We can't promise it will work. Normally clubs go into administration, which at least starts a procecss. It's extraordinary that there is an owner who simply refuses to do anything. That's a new one.

DG: If the owner doesn't want to sell, there's little anyone can do.

RP: A good thing about the proposed regulator is that it includes a power to force a sale.

Except it's not unprecedented or extraordinary. The Bury owner rejected several takeover offers, some news ones even arriving after the countdown clock had started. It's certainly unusual but the EFL saw a club end this way very recently.

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

It worked for QPR too. Got off pretty much scot-free when they were relegated. Forest may pay the price too now but it got them there. Kevin Maguire's book explains exactly how it works and why clubs do it. The system is set up such as to encourage that gamble.

[RoyalBlue]

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

MLS does have caps and the whole league is set up far more fairly with pretty much every team having a chance of finishing top. A team that dominates one season can (and they quite often do) find themselves down towards the bottom in the next.

That having been said, there are big question marks over how Inter Miami have managed to get the players that they have within the rules.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

It's all motivated by greed. From the owners to the agents to the players.
And it needs to stop,

It's mostly motivated by agents as they are the ones who frame the deals. They are complete parasites, and if they could be all be wiped out in one hit, football would see some improvement, especially outside the PL. Every time the TV package is renegotiated (and every time I pray the house of cards will fall), the price TV companies are prepared to pay just goes up. This doesn't result in profits for the clubs in all cases because agents smell even more outlandish returns and ramp up wages to even sillier levels. Of course, it's down to owners to say no, but they can't for fear of relegation.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Where there is money to be made, there is greed. Sport is even worse as there is also prestige and egos involved in a way you don't see in unglamorous industries like, say, waste management. It creates a natural toxic mix. Successful businessmen get into football and make reckless decisions for the glamour and excitement. Sometimes you ask "how the fcuk did this guy become so rich?". The answer is the football club is his plaything, not his business. And of course, agents are all too happy to fleece them for this mindset.

So obviously it needs an incredibly strict regulator. But it won't be much consolation to us if it arrives too late.

[Clyde1998]

It's all motivated by greed. From the owners to the agents to the players.
And it needs to stop,

It's mostly motivated by agents as they are the ones who frame the deals. They are complete parasites, and if they could be all be wiped out in one hit, football would see some improvement, especially outside the PL. Every time the TV package is renegotiated (and every time I pray the house of cards will fall), the price TV companies are prepared to pay just goes up. This doesn't result in profits for the clubs in all cases because agents smell even more outlandish returns and ramp up wages to even sillier levels. Of course, it's down to owners to say no, but they can't for fear of relegation.

I think we've created a society that acts now, thinks later: the 'how can we maximise profits this quarter?' mentality.

The TV deal with football is the extension of that. Clubs thinking about how they can maximise revenues; players/agents thinking about who will give them the most money; broadcasters trying to see how much people will pay for their service. All forgetting about the long term consequences of their actions - especially the impact on the fans and the footballing eco-system more generally.

I believe cricket saw a major drop in kids playing and being interested in the sport once it got put behind the paywall of satellite TV, but I'm sure the short term increase in revenue was worth it.

The extent of the Premier League TV deal compared to the rest of the pyramid and allowed the big clubs to cannibalise the rest of the system - even from the point of view of people being able to follow basically every game played by Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool and not supporting their local/family team as a result. Financially, the clubs outside the Premier League have been left to either fall further and further behind or gamble on reaching the top flight.

These top clubs are focusing on becoming global brands now, as opposed to being football clubs - almost like football matches are being used as marketing for a fashion brand. They don't care about their supporters or even the sport, they care about making as much money as possible. The European Super League was the logical next step to protect themselves from any outside challenge.

I do feel football has managed to fly too close to the sun; the government's football bill can't be introduced soon enough. Football has proven it cannot adequately regulate itself. The thought should always be about what's best for the game, not what will generate the most money - it's a shame that it appears to be taking government action to make that happen (and even that's not certain).

[Clyde1998]

Where there is money to be made, there is greed. Sport is even worse as there is also prestige and egos involved in a way you don't see in unglamorous industries like, say, waste management. It creates a natural toxic mix. Successful businessmen get into football and make reckless decisions for the glamour and excitement. Sometimes you ask "how the fcuk did this guy become so rich?". The answer is the football club is his plaything, not his business. And of course, agents are all too happy to fleece them for this mindset.

So obviously it needs an incredibly strict regulator. But it won't be much consolation to us if it arrives too late.

I've heard it said it's very easy to become a millionaire; most people don't because they have a moral compass.

[Mr Angry]

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

MLS does have caps and the whole league is set up far more fairly with pretty much every team having a chance of finishing top. A team that dominates one season can (and they quite often do) find themselves down towards the bottom in the next.

That having been said, there are big question marks over how Inter Miami have managed to get the players that they have within the rules.

No relegation helps massively, as they have the security of knowing what Division/Conference they are playing in next season and forever more, and can plan accordingly.

Introduce relegation into the MSL and see what happens within 5 Years.................................

[Mr Angry]

I've tried Joh Howell (although hold only the faintest of hopes that he'll even respond)!

"Dear John,

I hope this email finds you well and recovered from the party's turmoil over the previous few years.

I write a constituent and Reading FC fan to implore you to speak to the Secretary of State for Media, Culture and Sport on our behalf, about the plight our club finds itself in. As I'm sure you are aware our current owner, Dai Yongge, bought the club, with the EFL's permission, in 2017 (despite having failed in a bid for Hull in the years previous, due to the Premier League's view that he was unfit).

Since that point he has overseen an unprecedented decline in the club. Securing record points deductions, fines and embargoes in the process, as what look like it will become two relegations and, bluntly, the death of both the men and women's teams. Given his two previous clubs were both liquidated (Beijing Rehne and KSV Roeselare) and seemingly asset stripped, I have little faith that he will be able to (or has the will to) reverse our current trajectory - particularly in light of his own financial troubles in China.

Please urge your colleagues to intervene before the 7th oldest team in the country is lost, the EFL do not seem to have the ability / power to save us and protect such a valuable community asset for both Berkshire and South Oxfordshire."

If you are a constituent, he should respond to you.

An excellent idea btw; I have written to my local MP (David Johnston in Wantage) using your email as a template.

If anyone else wishes to write to their MP, their contact details can be found easily enough; go to the following link, put in your post code and you will see your local MP's name and email address.

https://members.parliament.uk/members/commons

Regardless of who you support politically (if at all) your MP represents you, their constituent.

edit: When you write to your MP, makes sure that you include your name and full postal address; they get hundreds of emails a day and need to cross reference that you are actually a constituent before they can answer your email.

[tmesis]

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

Wage caps work there because a) they are legal, and b) there's no alternative for players in other sports. An NFL player wanting more can't sign for an NFL team in another country and make more money.

Salary caps are also per squad, not per player. If we were in League Two, getting 9000 at every game, we might find it rather annoying to not be able to pay more than Crawley.

We've also seen in rugby, where there is a salary cap, it's not guarantee of financial stability.

I don't think there's too much wrong with overpaying as such, as long as it's manageable. If an owner is prepared to 'invest' in the squad, and isn't just adding it as debt to the club, and can prove he can cover the extra over a season, I don't think it's such an issue.

[Sutekh]

He also said Dai "gambled on getting to the PL, which never works"

It did work for Aston Villa and Bournemouth. Which is why crooks like Dai try it.

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

Would free-agent Jessie Lingard really have signed for Nottingham Forest over West Ham if the money haven't been off the charts? He'd have stayed with the club that was giving him first team football, he was being successful with. It's all motivated by greed. From the owners to the agents to the players.

And it needs to stop,

Jimmy Hill has a lot to answer for!

[Snowflake Royal]

That play-off final between Derby and Villa was basically a contest on who's gamble would pay off and who would face a financial crisis.

People only seem to care about fire safety once the house has burned down. When a large percentage of clubs are living well beyond their means, it shouldn't come as a surprise when they start to financially fail - the whole footballing system in England needs to be gutted and rebalanced.

Whole heartedly agree. We need wage caps, and bonus caps, and agent caps, and pricing caps, and spending caps and just to have a level playing field.

Doesn't America have caps on wages etc? If it can work for them, it can work here. You may find players make different decisions based on their own motivation.

MLS does have caps and the whole league is set up far more fairly with pretty much every team having a chance of finishing top. A team that dominates one season can (and they quite often do) find themselves down towards the bottom in the next.

That having been said, there are big question marks over how Inter Miami have managed to get the players that they have within the rules.

American employment and business law is going to be rather different too. Given the college football scene they may well have different laws for sports clubs than standard businesses.

[Sutekh]

Can't the EFL give Dai an ultimation? Sell by the end of the season including show you are actively trying to sell or you'll be disqualified from owning reading

No, because the Independent Commission decide sanctions.

And even if they do, he can just ignore them.

And according to him, and Dayong Pang, he wants to sell and is actively looking for a buyer it's just that these things take time.

[Ascotexgunner]

Given that Dai is under investigation for shit loads of stuff in China and that they have the death penalty for embezzlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_o ... l_offenses

We are well down his list of priorities...

What are you like with photo shop? Maybe a small photo with the Taiwanese president might be enough for him to "vanish"

[The Royal Forester]

Can't the EFL give Dai an ultimation? Sell by the end of the season including show you are actively trying to sell or you'll be disqualified from owning reading

No, because the Independent Commission decide sanctions.

And even if they do, he can just ignore them.

And according to him, and Dayong Pang, he wants to sell and is actively looking for a buyer it's just that these things take time.

Pang also said that Dai is looking to ensure the club is in, wait for it......................."safe hands". Some irony there I think.

[windermereROYAL]

Can't the EFL give Dai an ultimation? Sell by the end of the season including show you are actively trying to sell or you'll be disqualified from owning reading

No, because the Independent Commission decide sanctions.

And even if they do, he can just ignore them.

And according to him, and Dayong Pang, he wants to sell and is actively looking for a buyer it's just that these things take time.

There`s taking time and there`s taking fucking forever, he told us to be patient, it`s clear the fans have lost patience.

[JR]

It's all motivated by greed. From the owners to the agents to the players.
And it needs to stop,

It's mostly motivated by agents as they are the ones who frame the deals. They are complete parasites, and if they could be all be wiped out in one hit, football would see some improvement, especially outside the PL. Every time the TV package is renegotiated (and every time I pray the house of cards will fall), the price TV companies are prepared to pay just goes up. This doesn't result in profits for the clubs in all cases because agents smell even more outlandish returns and ramp up wages to even sillier levels. Of course, it's down to owners to say no, but they can't for fear of relegation.

I think we've created a society that acts now, thinks later: the 'how can we maximise profits this quarter?' mentality.

The TV deal with football is the extension of that. Clubs thinking about how they can maximise revenues; players/agents thinking about who will give them the most money; broadcasters trying to see how much people will pay for their service. All forgetting about the long term consequences of their actions - especially the impact on the fans and the footballing eco-system more generally.

I believe cricket saw a major drop in kids playing and being interested in the sport once it got put behind the paywall of satellite TV, but I'm sure the short term increase in revenue was worth it.

The extent of the Premier League TV deal compared to the rest of the pyramid and allowed the big clubs to cannibalise the rest of the system - even from the point of view of people being able to follow basically every game played by Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool and not supporting their local/family team as a result. Financially, the clubs outside the Premier League have been left to either fall further and further behind or gamble on reaching the top flight.

These top clubs are focusing on becoming global brands now, as opposed to being football clubs - almost like football matches are being used as marketing for a fashion brand. They don't care about their supporters or even the sport, they care about making as much money as possible. The European Super League was the logical next step to protect themselves from any outside challenge.

I do feel football has managed to fly too close to the sun; the government's football bill can't be introduced soon enough. Football has proven it cannot adequately regulate itself. The thought should always be about what's best for the game, not what will generate the most money - it's a shame that it appears to be taking government action to make that happen (and even that's not certain).

The dreaming for the halcyon days of mainstream sport on terrestrial TV is a complete fallacy.

The only way these sports have been able to properly invest and grow in the UK is due to the pay TV deals.

You reference cricket - well youth participation in cricket is at its highest ever levels. That has been achieved in large part due to the investment in the game by the ECB and fantastic initiatives that they have funded like All Stars Cricket which is due to the game changing impact of bumper TV deals.

The difference of course between football and cricket is that the tv money goes to the governing body first in cricket, so there is some sensible allocation of it, rather than the overspending we see by football clubs.

[JR]

I've tried Joh Howell (although hold only the faintest of hopes that he'll even respond)!

"Dear John,

I hope this email finds you well and recovered from the party's turmoil over the previous few years.

I write a constituent and Reading FC fan to implore you to speak to the Secretary of State for Media, Culture and Sport on our behalf, about the plight our club finds itself in. As I'm sure you are aware our current owner, Dai Yongge, bought the club, with the EFL's permission, in 2017 (despite having failed in a bid for Hull in the years previous, due to the Premier League's view that he was unfit).

Since that point he has overseen an unprecedented decline in the club. Securing record points deductions, fines and embargoes in the process, as what look like it will become two relegations and, bluntly, the death of both the men and women's teams. Given his two previous clubs were both liquidated (Beijing Rehne and KSV Roeselare) and seemingly asset stripped, I have little faith that he will be able to (or has the will to) reverse our current trajectory - particularly in light of his own financial troubles in China.

Please urge your colleagues to intervene before the 7th oldest team in the country is lost, the EFL do not seem to have the ability / power to save us and protect such a valuable community asset for both Berkshire and South Oxfordshire."

I emailed John on Saturday morning and to be fair to his constituency office they replied on Monday.

Unfortunately, it was a response to say don’t worry the Tories are championing an independent football regulator.

Didn’t expect a decent response from one of the most inept MPs you can come across - but a shame they had no desire to show some genuine local compassion in the response.

[Sutekh]

No, because the Independent Commission decide sanctions.

And even if they do, he can just ignore them.

And according to him, and Dayong Pang, he wants to sell and is actively looking for a buyer it's just that these things take time.

There`s taking time and there`s taking fucking forever, he told us to be patient, it`s clear the fans have lost patience.

He's waiting for an FSG or Saudi Prince to come along. Bless.