#SellBeforeWeDai Action/Inaction Group

2912 posts
WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6242
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by WestYorksRoyal » 18 Jan 2024 11:26

rabidbee
WestYorksRoyal
rabidbee One of Parry's comments before the parliamentary committee the other day was that the EFL would prefer to move from the current set up (losses of up to £39m over three years) to squad-cost ratios (I think he said limited to ~70% of turnover) which would enable the league to move from acting retrospectively (punishing a club for something it did three years ago) to acting prospectively (as he put it), for instance preventing the registration of any player that would take the club over the squad-cost ratio.

The whole session was interesting, and did contradict some of the received wisdom often spouted on here. The EFL are not terrified about an independent regulator, Rick Parry repeatedly demanded MPs hurry up and introduce one; they aren't worried they will lose their powers, Parry wants the regulator to take on responsibility for the owners and directors test, and for the financial sustainability rules (whatever they will be).

But it all ties into the PL settlement. I believe that, in addition to parachute payments, the PL are trying to require that the ratio would be 90% for relegated side as it's harder for them to get wages back under control. This just bakes in inequality even further. Then there is also uncertainty on how to allow for transfer revenue, which will be one off for accounting purposes compared with wages which will be tied into 2 - 3 contracts.

To be fair, how to ensure clubs are sustainable whilst not discouraging investment or undermining competing is a bloody difficult question. But obviously it shouldn't be up the the PL and EFL to mark their own homework.

Yeah. Parry discussed parachute payments a lot, whilst Masters looked very uncomfortable. I think he suggested that with parachute payments and player sales (typically £50m after relegation) relegated clubs can expect to operate on £110m a year, whilst other Championship clubs have £30m (this is all from memory). He also pointed out that in the last six years, two out of three promoted clubs were on parachute payments. He spent a long time discussing what they would prefer, which seemed a bit wishy-washy tbf (look more at what they need rather than an arbitrary figure).

I'm quite hardline on parachute payments. Sell your players to balance the books. If you're handing out big wages in the PL to players without resale value, you only have yourselves to blame.

Whereas as it is, parachute payments either subsidise PL quality players in the Championship or allow relegated clubs to blow their competition out of the water in the transfer market.

User avatar
rabidbee
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3657
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Like a dog to vomit

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by rabidbee » 18 Jan 2024 11:29

YorkshireRoyal99
WestYorksRoyal
rabidbee One of Parry's comments before the parliamentary committee the other day was that the EFL would prefer to move from the current set up (losses of up to £39m over three years) to squad-cost ratios (I think he said limited to ~70% of turnover) which would enable the league to move from acting retrospectively (punishing a club for something it did three years ago) to acting prospectively (as he put it), for instance preventing the registration of any player that would take the club over the squad-cost ratio.

The whole session was interesting, and did contradict some of the received wisdom often spouted on here. The EFL are not terrified about an independent regulator, Rick Parry repeatedly demanded MPs hurry up and introduce one; they aren't worried they will lose their powers, Parry wants the regulator to take on responsibility for the owners and directors test, and for the financial sustainability rules (whatever they will be).

But it all ties into the PL settlement. I believe that, in addition to parachute payments, the PL are trying to require that the ratio would be 90% for relegated side as it's harder for them to get wages back under control. This just bakes in inequality even further. Then there is also uncertainty on how to allow for transfer revenue, which will be one off for accounting purposes compared with wages which will be tied into 2 - 3 contracts.

To be fair, how to ensure clubs are sustainable whilst not discouraging investment or undermining competing is a bloody difficult question. But obviously it shouldn't be up the the PL and EFL to mark their own homework.


In terms of wages, I have always wondered why it isn't made mandatory to have a % wage drop included in players' contracts across all PL clubs. If that came out at 20% across your entire squad for example, that's a significant saving made before you have even begun to move some of your players on which would inevitably happen.

Practically, whilst it may put players off from joining clubs, it wouldn't deter everybody and also supports a club from a sustainability point of view, more so than passing them money to play with upon relegation. I've always thought that parachute payments just invites clubs to gamble back for promotion, look at West Brom for example.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Make it a standard clause, league-wide. It could be coupled with a relegation buy-out clause. I guess it's further complicated by bonuses and things, but it would be a start. The key point is that the EFL are saying they want to negotiate something on these lines, and they want to move to a point where clubs could be sustainable on normal turnover without the need for large injections of capital from an owner.

traff
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 00:08

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by traff » 18 Jan 2024 11:42

More evidence that the pitch invasion was not in vain.
Great to see solidarity from the football family. Even if the bullet they dodged hit us!

https://hullcitysupporterstrust.com/hcs ... ding-fans/

Sutekh
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 20228
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Sutekh » 18 Jan 2024 12:50

traff More evidence that the pitch invasion was not in vain.
Great to see solidarity from the football family. Even if the bullet they dodged hit us!

https://hullcitysupporterstrust.com/hcs ... ding-fans/



Utterly brilliant. If that actually happens that should highlight things even more. Has the Football Supporters Association backed it too? Wonder if it'd go down in the PL and at Oxford, Derby, Swindon etc.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 42661
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Snowflake Royal » 18 Jan 2024 12:52

Greatwesternline
Who Moved The Goalposts?
YorkshireRoyal99
I don't see how they can, otherwise surely they'd have stepped in long before now to ensure that staff, HMRC etc are paid on time. I think the best they can do is what they've done previously, order Dai to pay a percentage into a designated account by a certain date.


I think the EFL may have dropped the ball somewhat, as IIRC, the EFL made regular financial reporting a condition of Dai being allowed to take over. If they haven't been doing that, they likely won't be monitoring transfer transactions either.


What makes you think they havent been receiving regular financial reporting?

Them easing restrictions on more than one occasion springs to mind.


Greatwesternline
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6578
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 14:36

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Greatwesternline » 18 Jan 2024 12:57

Snowflake Royal
Greatwesternline
Who Moved The Goalposts?
I think the EFL may have dropped the ball somewhat, as IIRC, the EFL made regular financial reporting a condition of Dai being allowed to take over. If they haven't been doing that, they likely won't be monitoring transfer transactions either.


What makes you think they havent been receiving regular financial reporting?

Them easing restrictions on more than one occasion springs to mind.


The restrictions ebbed and flowed in line with our misconduct > enforcement > relaxation of sanctions > new misconduct > enforcement.

We were transparent with everything we did, and when we did stuff wrong they punished us. After being punished we got a new life. We then broke the rules again. There is no great conspiracy here.

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6242
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by WestYorksRoyal » 18 Jan 2024 13:04

Greatwesternline
Snowflake Royal
Greatwesternline
What makes you think they havent been receiving regular financial reporting?

Them easing restrictions on more than one occasion springs to mind.


The restrictions ebbed and flowed in line with our misconduct > enforcement > relaxation of sanctions > new misconduct > enforcement.

We were transparent with everything we did, and when we did stuff wrong they punished us. After being punished we got a new life. We then broke the rules again. There is no great conspiracy here.

2019 is the obvious, where they kept us under soft embargo, had dialogue with us over our position then gave us autonomy at the end of August. We went nuts and it was the nail in the FFP coffin.

But were they wrong to make that decision? We had not broken any rules at that point, the risks would have been crystal clear to everyone at the club - in fact Howe resigned probably to avoid being tarnished. Surely clubs need the authority to make their own decisions? All the EFL can do is communicate the risks clearly.

Edit: Howe actually resigned a year later.

User avatar
Winston Biscuit
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 36396
Joined: 05 May 2017 07:32
Location: PUSSY IN BIO

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Winston Biscuit » 18 Jan 2024 13:25

IMO this 16th minute clap thing being asked of other clubs fans is nonsense, cringey as anything, and is more likely to turn other sets of fans against us than support us

Just IMO though

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11747
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by NathStPaul » 18 Jan 2024 13:30

Winston Biscuit IMO this 16th minute clap thing being asked of other clubs fans is nonsense, cringey as anything, and is more likely to turn other sets of fans against us than support us

Just IMO though

Absolutely this, it is completely counterproductive. To be fair to SBWD I don't think they pushed for this or encouraged it, it was Port Vale trying to be nice.


User avatar
Brogue
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13482
Joined: 02 Mar 2021 20:38
Location: Getting things done

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Brogue » 18 Jan 2024 13:33

Agreed it is cringy and also agreed it’s not something sbwd is organising or pushing for.

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 21903
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53
Location: Lambs to the cosmic slaughter

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Hendo » 18 Jan 2024 13:42

NathStPaul
Winston Biscuit IMO this 16th minute clap thing being asked of other clubs fans is nonsense, cringey as anything, and is more likely to turn other sets of fans against us than support us

Just IMO though

Absolutely this, it is completely counterproductive. To be fair to SBWD I don't think they pushed for this or encouraged it, it was Port Vale trying to be nice.


Totally agree.

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11747
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by NathStPaul » 18 Jan 2024 13:46

That John Rudge Statue fundraiser is completely nuts by the way. £88,354 now raised with £9000 coming from Reading supporters in just the last 5 days, quite incredible if you think about it.

Whatever happens going forward I think they'll always be a link between the two clubs which is nice.

User avatar
Winston Biscuit
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 36396
Joined: 05 May 2017 07:32
Location: PUSSY IN BIO

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Winston Biscuit » 18 Jan 2024 13:47

A quick look at X, formally known as twitter, shows a handful of fan groups promoting this 16th minute clap, and the responses from their own fans are almost universally laughter, stating they will obviously not do it, and then conversations starting up about things we have done in the past etc as to why they would not support a club like ours

I have no idea who's idea this was but its massively misguided and shows a total lack of awareness and understanding IMO.


User avatar
Brogue
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13482
Joined: 02 Mar 2021 20:38
Location: Getting things done

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Brogue » 18 Jan 2024 13:49

Winston Biscuit A quick look at X, formally known as twitter, shows a handful of fan groups promoting this 16th minute clap, and the responses from their own fans are almost universally laughter, stating they will obviously not do it, and then conversations starting up about things we have done in the past etc as to why they would not support a club like ours

I have no idea who's idea this was but its massively misguided and shows a total lack of awareness and understanding IMO.


port vale and basingstoke

User avatar
Brogue
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13482
Joined: 02 Mar 2021 20:38
Location: Getting things done

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by Brogue » 18 Jan 2024 14:02

Greatwesternline WRTOP, I've seen this tweet from SBWD: https://x.com/SellBeforeWeDai/status/17 ... 92091?s=20

What legal advice do we think SBWD need to procure, and is it fair for them to be fleecing gullible Reading fans into donating their hard earned so that a few self selected fans can pay a lawyer to tell them about the basics of insolvency law?


now at 8k

blythspartan
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2416
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 20:50

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by blythspartan » 18 Jan 2024 14:12

Brogue
Greatwesternline WRTOP, I've seen this tweet from SBWD: https://x.com/SellBeforeWeDai/status/17 ... 92091?s=20

What legal advice do we think SBWD need to procure, and is it fair for them to be fleecing gullible Reading fans into donating their hard earned so that a few self selected fans can pay a lawyer to tell them about the basics of insolvency law?


now at 8k


I wonder what happened about the staff Christmas one. That’s £7.5k and I know STAR were looking to fund a staff party this month, but I’ve not seen anything since.

blythspartan
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2416
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 20:50

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by blythspartan » 18 Jan 2024 15:03

I thought this interview on Sky was very good and explains our predicament really well.

https://twitter.com/sellbeforewedai/sta ... ediaviewer

User avatar
NathStPaul
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11747
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 14:21

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by NathStPaul » 18 Jan 2024 15:31

That complete charlatan Alex Crook reporting that Sam Smith could be off very soon.

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6242
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by WestYorksRoyal » 18 Jan 2024 15:37

NathStPaul That complete charlatan Alex Crook reporting that Sam Smith could be off very soon.

Not familiar with his reporting record. Anyhow, will give a good indication of how serious Dai is about selling the club.

How much more can you get selling a L1 club over a L2 club? That's how much Sam Smith is worth to him. Sell him for peanuts and it's a sign that once again statements are lip service only.

blythspartan
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2416
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 20:50

Re: #SellBeforeWeDai (to someone fit and proper)“ supporters action group

by blythspartan » 18 Jan 2024 15:43

WestYorksRoyal
NathStPaul That complete charlatan Alex Crook reporting that Sam Smith could be off very soon.

Not familiar with his reporting record. Anyhow, will give a good indication of how serious Dai is about selling the club.

How much more can you get selling a L1 club over a L2 club? That's how much Sam Smith is worth to him. Sell him for peanuts and it's a sign that once again statements are lip service only.


If he goes the writings on the wall.

2912 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], rabidbee and 321 guests

It is currently 22 Nov 2024 18:17