Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[WestYorksRoyal]

EFL are enforcing rules voted on by their members, so their hands are tied. Shows the game can't regulate itself as clubs will also vote in self interest. A team that really should be getting relegated might stay up because there are rules that kick us when we're down.

[Snowflake Royal]

EFL are enforcing rules voted on by their members, so their hands are tied. Shows the game can't regulate itself as clubs will also vote in self interest. A team that really should be getting relegated might stay up because there are rules that kick us when we're down.

At this point, I'd just get rid of deductions and automatically relegate anyone who breaches financial rules.

Should be fun watching 18 Championship relegations in one season

[Mid Sussex Royal]

F*cking EFL - they seem to deliberately string out the process and hit us at the last moment. IMO their claims to care about the club are absolute crap. They are very definitely not fit for purpose. Football doesn't just have an ownership problem, it clearly also has a governance problem.

Doubtless the EFL will claim it's down to an 'Independent Commission' but that Commission can only operate within EFL rules and guidelines.

They've hit us with pretty much the bare minimum deduction possible, short of a suspended deduction. For repeated and excessive failure to pay tax on time, isn’t it?

We're still 3 points outside the relegation zone.

It's entirely fair, and it's about the minimum they could have done without just waving the flag to all clubs to stop paying tax.

I was expecting 3/4 suspended, which could easily have been triggered.

We're playing well enough it shouldn't sink us. And actually comes at a good time to renew our determination and keep fighting.

Whilst I don't fully disagree, there already was a clear penalty in the books for cumulative delays in payment which included tax - that was the punishment where you cannot pay a fee of any kind for a player for 3 transfer windows. I'm intrigued to see the rationale for this additional penalty given that exists, though I don't disagree with it.

Late payment of tax is a separate EFL rule to late payment of wages, you can go up to 80 late days a year which in itself is generous....we were at 100 apparently.

What would be interesting to know is what the criteria is for the suspended 2 points to be instigated

[Stranded]

They've hit us with pretty much the bare minimum deduction possible, short of a suspended deduction. For repeated and excessive failure to pay tax on time, isn’t it?

We're still 3 points outside the relegation zone.

It's entirely fair, and it's about the minimum they could have done without just waving the flag to all clubs to stop paying tax.

I was expecting 3/4 suspended, which could easily have been triggered.

We're playing well enough it shouldn't sink us. And actually comes at a good time to renew our determination and keep fighting.

Whilst I don't fully disagree, there already was a clear penalty in the books for cumulative delays in payment which included tax - that was the punishment where you cannot pay a fee of any kind for a player for 3 transfer windows. I'm intrigued to see the rationale for this additional penalty given that exists, though I don't disagree with it.

Late payment of tax is a separate EFL rule to late payment of wages, you can go up to 80 late days a year which in itself in generous....we were at 100 apparently.

What would be interesting to know is what the criteria is for the suspended 2 points to be instigated

It's 30 days of cumulative late payment as mentioned here: https://www.efl.com/news/2023/june/efl- ... ummer-2023

[Mid Sussex Royal]

EFL are enforcing rules voted on by their members, so their hands are tied. Shows the game can't regulate itself as clubs will also vote in self interest. A team that really should be getting relegated might stay up because there are rules that kick us when we're down.

They have to look after their members and be fair.

We signed the likes of Smith, Knibbs & Wing, all upper end L1 players, at a time when we were already in tax arrears and you could argue we shouldn't have signed them if future payment of wages & tax was uncertain.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Whilst I don't fully disagree, there already was a clear penalty in the books for cumulative delays in payment which included tax - that was the punishment where you cannot pay a fee of any kind for a player for 3 transfer windows. I'm intrigued to see the rationale for this additional penalty given that exists, though I don't disagree with it.

Late payment of tax is a separate EFL rule to late payment of wages, you can go up to 80 late days a year which in itself in generous....we were at 100 apparently.

What would be interesting to know is what the criteria is for the suspended 2 points to be instigated

It's 30 days of cumulative late payment as mentioned here: https://www.efl.com/news/2023/june/efl- ... ummer-2023

That talks about embargoes. No mention of possible points deductions.

[windermereROYAL]

Official now.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

So basically reading the announcement if we are one day late paying tax between now and the end of the season the suspended 2 points will be activated.

[windermereROYAL]

So basically reading the announcement if we are one day late paying tax between now and the end of the season the suspended 2 points will be activated.

Not just tax, any bills that are due to creditors, I reckon that seals our fate.

[morganb]

Link to the documentation

https://www.efl.com/governance/judgments-and-decisions/

[PieEater]

A couple of things about that statement, who are other "identified football creditors"?

The racking up of fines is understandable but stupid IMHO. The fine came about from a frankly unrealistic demand to meet 2.25 times the normal months wages with a months notice in a situation where the club had no money. It's gone downhill from there.

Will they block a sale until the fine on the fine on the fine on the fine are paid?

[windermereROYAL]

The EFL wanted an immediate 4 point sanction, I think they`ll get their wish eventually

[Stranded]

Link to the documentation

https://www.efl.com/governance/judgments-and-decisions/

A frankly depressing read.

EFL wanted 4 points off now - commission decided on 2 now, 2 suspended in the hopes it will force Dai/the club to pay on time.

Noted that we have been late with tax again but that will not form part of the decision or be a trigger for the 2 points.

The suspension will kick in if the club are late, for any reason, on any payment to a creditor. No ifs, no buts. If payment is due Monday and we pay Tuesday, points gone.

Commission states we have an unfair sporting advantage as we are living beyond our means - this is entirely accurate but true of 90% of clubs - they just have owners who pay the bills.

Dai continues to refuse to give evidence that he can't get enough money to the club and little to no evidence he is doing much of anything to sell.

EFL want him suspended but the commission refused as the EFL were unable to give any clarification as to what would happen if he refused to sell - commission refused to put the club in that position.

So in short - if Dai doesn't sell, EFL will keep looking to get points deducted for any breach and push for Dai to be suspended until we are a twitching corpse of a club.

[WestYorksRoyal]

How long will the player sales money from January last? End of the season?

[Stranded]

Also the Chronology of sanctions makes for enlightening and disheartening reading - page 12 of the PDF.

Confirms we didn't pay Forest and Boro our share of the wages for Fornah and Lumley amongst other crimes.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

A couple of things about that statement, who are other "identified football creditors"?

The racking up of fines is understandable but stupid IMHO. The fine came about from a frankly unrealistic demand to meet 2.25 times the normal months wages with a months notice in a situation where the club had no money. It's gone downhill from there.

Will they block a sale until the fine on the fine on the fine on the fine are paid?

I can only think of loan players where we pay some of the wages. Or maybe agents?

We haven't signed anyone since Ejaria

[Stranded]

A couple of things about that statement, who are other "identified football creditors"?

The racking up of fines is understandable but stupid IMHO. The fine came about from a frankly unrealistic demand to meet 2.25 times the normal months wages with a months notice in a situation where the club had no money. It's gone downhill from there.

Will they block a sale until the fine on the fine on the fine on the fine are paid?

I can only think of loan players where we pay some of the wages. Or maybe agents?

We haven't signed anyone since Ejaria

Depends if we still owe transfer fees for players that have since left - unlikely but we may say still owe money to Liverpool for Ejaria.

[windermereROYAL]

So lets assume we are losing the other 2 points too, we probably need 18 points from 11 games, 6 wins or 5 wins and 3 draws, thats a big ask.

[Royals and Racers]

From the decision document suffix 2 on page 5 that Dai did pay something on the 1st February.

[tidus_mi2]

So lets assume we are losing the other 2 points too, we probably need 18 points from 11 games, 6 wins or 5 wins and 3 draws, thats a big ask.

Is it? Even if you assume we get the 2pts off, we're still out of the relegation zone on goal difference, we just need to do better than 21st, which, on current form we will. Just need to not sink into despair like we seemed to last season.