#SellBeforeWeDai Action/Inaction Group

[WestYorksRoyal]

How I see it, Bowen was told in the summer that Dai remained committed. He was lied to. We signed some good players for this level under that pretence, and now we can't afford them. So there is definitely a sporting fairness issue.

What does our summer look like if we know from the outset that Dai can't/ won't pay our bills? No Knibbs/Wing/Smith/Savage, perhaps Holmes and McIntyre sold. Maybe we'd still get Dean and Button.

Put it this way, I think we're in a better position with the players and the points deduction than the other way around.

[Reading4eva]

The EFL are not fit for purpose.

They allowed Dai to take over. In doing so they made a mistake. If someone makes a mistake, they should help whoever it is to put right that mistake.

Instead they are kicking the club in the head when its already down.

The EFL are scum. Parry and Dai need to get on Maxwell's boat for a cruise in the Canaries or I'd prefer the Everglades now.

Angry is an understatement. The players have worked their oxf*rd arses off to get into this position and the EFL do this...

[MartinRdg]

Maybe SBWD should keep the EFL on side

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/reading-message-efl-points-deduction-2929145?ITO=newsnow

[Reading4eva]

Maybe SBWD should keep the EFL on side

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/reading-message-efl-points-deduction-2929145?ITO=newsnow

No, oxf*rd them.

We have co-operated all this time, been decent, pleasant and how is that repaid?

When there is a glimmer of hope that this club and its very young group of players begin to rise from the ashes, they do what they have done today.

FCK THE EFL

[tmesis]

What does our summer look like if we know from the outset that Dai can't/ won't pay our bills? No Knibbs/Wing/Smith/Savage, perhaps Holmes and McIntyre sold. Maybe we'd still get Dean and Button.

Put it this way, I think we're in a better position with the players and the points deduction than the other way around.

I think this is where is gets awkward. There's no doubt that clubs around us will say that we are gaining an advantage because of our overspending (not that we have an expensive squad by any means).

The problem with that though is that there does not appear to have been any breach of FFP rules this time round, and running at a loss isn't against any rules. I suspect about 80% of the clubs in the league are running at a loss.

[Snowflake Royal]

SBWD have issued new statement.

I sometimes think SBWD need to consider the bigger picture and why these punishments are levied.

Bunch of absolute oxf*rd childish idiots

[Sutekh]

What does our summer look like if we know from the outset that Dai can't/ won't pay our bills? No Knibbs/Wing/Smith/Savage, perhaps Holmes and McIntyre sold. Maybe we'd still get Dean and Button.

Put it this way, I think we're in a better position with the players and the points deduction than the other way around.

I think this is where is gets awkward. There's no doubt that clubs around us will say that we are gaining an advantage because of our overspending (not that we have an expensive squad by any means).

The problem with that though is that there does not appear to have been any breach of FFP rules this time round, and running at a loss isn't against any rules. I suspect about 80% of the clubs in the league are running at a loss.

Same in the PL where there's likely to be a total farce to come when Forest and Everton (again) appeal their next punishment, appeals which are likely to drag on well into the Euros meaning a number of clubs might not be able to plan for next season as they won't know for sure which division they're in until July.

The whole ffp thing is not fit for purpose in any division, it has to be something that is PER SEASON where clubs are held accountable in that season and none of this stupid 3 seasons rolling that just creates utter confusion and many ways for clubs to get creative in "hiding" things.

[Snowflake Royal]

Maybe SBWD should keep the EFL on side

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/reading-message-efl-points-deduction-2929145?ITO=newsnow

No, oxf*rd them.

We have co-operated all this time, been decent, pleasant and how is that repaid?

When there is a glimmer of hope that this club and its very young group of players begin to rise from the ashes, they do what they have done today.

FCK THE EFL

How have 'we' cooperated?

The 'club' has commited to agreements to avoid sanctions and reneged on them multiple times.

The 'club' has cheated financially for years.

The 'club' has failed to pay its players and tax on time repeatedly.

The 'owner' has lied, failed to fund the club, cheated and ignored fines at every opportunity.

The 'fans' have disrupted multiple games. Sung unjustified abuse at the FL and forced a game to be abandoned with a prolonged pitch invasion.

None of these things are acceptable behaviour from the FL's point of view, and more importantly, against the rules all 'clubs', 'owners' and 'fans' are supposed to abide by and in the case of 'clubs' and 'owners' sign up to and create.

[Reading4eva]

Maybe SBWD should keep the EFL on side

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/reading-message-efl-points-deduction-2929145?ITO=newsnow

No, oxf*rd them.

We have co-operated all this time, been decent, pleasant and how is that repaid?

When there is a glimmer of hope that this club and its very young group of players begin to rise from the ashes, they do what they have done today.

FCK THE EFL

How have 'we' cooperated?

The 'club' has commited to agreements to avoid sanctions and reneged on them multiple times.

The 'club' has cheated financially for years.

The 'club' has failed to pay its players and tax on time repeatedly.

The 'owner' has lied, failed to fund the club, cheated and ignored fines at every opportunity.

The 'fans' have disrupted multiple games. Sung unjustified abuse at the FL and forced a game to be abandoned with a prolonged pitch invasion.

None of these things are acceptable behaviour from the FL's point of view, and more importantly, against the rules all 'clubs', 'owners' and 'fans' are supposed to abide by and in the case of 'clubs' and 'owners' sign up to and create.

Take the owner out of that equation mate and the rest would not happen.

The fans had to do what they did.

[Elm Park Kid]

SBWD have issued new statement.

I sometimes think SBWD need to consider the bigger picture and why these punishments are levied.

Yep.

I could do an annotation of what is wrong with that SBWD statement. Most paragraphs to be honest.

Para 1 - You need sporting sanctions to stop clubs from breaching financial fair play. As can be seen from our form over the past 20 games, we are running a play-off contention first 11 which the club doesnt have the resources to maintain. We are therefore gaining a sporting advantage over other clubs who are paying their taxes and wage bills on time but who have a less competitive squad.

Para 2 - Not imposing fines because of an impending sale would be treating Reading preferentially due to its own commercial concerns, so clearly that would be improper.

Para 3 - Just because someone isnt paying a fine, doesnt mean you stop issuing the fines when they continue to break the rules. Obviously.

Para 4 - The number of points we have had deducted is a function of the period time over which we have been breaking the rules - or known as cheating by others.

Para 5 - Of course the EFL do care about their rulebook more than the health and history of the clubs in the league. The rule book is there to protect the clubs' health. SBWD seem to forget we broke the financial fair play rules.

I know many people on here will disagree with those, but let's be honest, take your Reading biases out of it, and its all factually true.

In normal circumstances I would agree with all of the above.

However . . . The continued existence of clubs has to take priority over all other factors. The rules, 'fairness', the integrity of the league .. . none of it is more important than a football club being able to continue operating and the EFL needs to recognise that.

[Snowflake Royal]

I sometimes think SBWD need to consider the bigger picture and why these punishments are levied.

Yep.

I could do an annotation of what is wrong with that SBWD statement. Most paragraphs to be honest.

Para 1 - You need sporting sanctions to stop clubs from breaching financial fair play. As can be seen from our form over the past 20 games, we are running a play-off contention first 11 which the club doesnt have the resources to maintain. We are therefore gaining a sporting advantage over other clubs who are paying their taxes and wage bills on time but who have a less competitive squad.

Para 2 - Not imposing fines because of an impending sale would be treating Reading preferentially due to its own commercial concerns, so clearly that would be improper.

Para 3 - Just because someone isnt paying a fine, doesnt mean you stop issuing the fines when they continue to break the rules. Obviously.

Para 4 - The number of points we have had deducted is a function of the period time over which we have been breaking the rules - or known as cheating by others.

Para 5 - Of course the EFL do care about their rulebook more than the health and history of the clubs in the league. The rule book is there to protect the clubs' health. SBWD seem to forget we broke the financial fair play rules.

I know many people on here will disagree with those, but let's be honest, take your Reading biases out of it, and its all factually true.

In normal circumstances I would agree with all of the above.

However . . . The continued existence of clubs has to take priority over all other factors. The rules, 'fairness', the integrity of the league .. . none of it is more important than a football club being able to continue operating and the EFL needs to recognise that.

That's just carte blanche to throw the rules in the bin.

It's all on Dai. If he sells we survive, if he doesn't we don't.

Yes football clubs should be community owned and franchised out with the franchise revokable. But they aren’t, and until they are if they don't follow the rules because of a rogue owner they should be punished, and ultimately kicked out the league if it continues.

It's happened to many clubs down the years, and we don't deserve special treatment.

[tmesis]

However . . . The continued existence of clubs has to take priority over all other factors. The rules, 'fairness', the integrity of the league .. . none of it is more important than a football club being able to continue operating and the EFL needs to recognise that.

I guess if "do nothing" is not an option for the EFL, regarding the situation, what alternative action can they realistically take?

The next level of player embargo is apparently a full registration embargo, which stops us signing anybody, even if they are on a free.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

How I see it, Bowen was told in the summer that Dai remained committed. He was lied to. We signed some good players for this level under that pretence, and now we can't afford them. So there is definitely a sporting fairness issue.

What does our summer look like if we know from the outset that Dai can't/ won't pay our bills? No Knibbs/Wing/Smith/Savage, perhaps Holmes and McIntyre sold. Maybe we'd still get Dean and Button.

Put it this way, I think we're in a better position with the players and the points deduction than the other way around.

We are in a better position no doubt. So you can argue we've gained that advantage.

Some of the player transfers in the summer were delayed because tax was behind (at least Savage from memory) so there must have been doubts then around sustainability of the wage bill whatever Bowen was told.

[Snowflake Royal]

How I see it, Bowen was told in the summer that Dai remained committed. He was lied to. We signed some good players for this level under that pretence, and now we can't afford them. So there is definitely a sporting fairness issue.

What does our summer look like if we know from the outset that Dai can't/ won't pay our bills? No Knibbs/Wing/Smith/Savage, perhaps Holmes and McIntyre sold. Maybe we'd still get Dean and Button.

Put it this way, I think we're in a better position with the players and the points deduction than the other way around.

We are in a better position no doubt. So you can argue we've gained that advantage.

Some of the player transfers in the summer were delayed because tax was behind (at least Savage from memory) so there must have been doubts then around sustainability of the wage bill whatever Bowen was told.

I'm losing patience with Bowen, he's looking more and more complicit in our problems.

He was treated like shit by Dai as manager, but still came back.

He's openly said in public we'd meet our business plan, when he knew damn well we couldn’t. He said our problems were over, when he knew the money wasn't thereto fund the club. He was party to signing good L1 players we couldn't afford.

Anyone believing a word Dai tells them is deliberately lying to themselves that it'll be true.

[Royals and Racers]

The statement has a sublime message in it with the initial letter starting at line 15 and ending in line 25

[Loafer]

Maybe SBWD should keep the EFL on side

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/reading-message-efl-points-deduction-2929145?ITO=newsnow

No, oxf*rd them.

We have co-operated all this time, been decent, pleasant and how is that repaid?

When there is a glimmer of hope that this club and its very young group of players begin to rise from the ashes, they do what they have done today.

FCK THE EFL

How is this the efl fault?

You break the rules and get punished

[Loafer]

With that message "oxf*rd the efl", sbwd have proven themselves to be much like club1871

Attention seekers and trolls

[leon]

With that message "oxf*rd the efl", sbwd have proven themselves to be much like club1871

Attention seekers and trolls

oh the irony

[From Despair To Where?]

The EFL are not fit for purpose.

They allowed Dai to take over. In doing so they made a mistake. If someone makes a mistake, they should help whoever it is to put right that mistake.

Instead they are kicking the club in the head when its already down.

The EFL are scum. Parry and Dai need to get on Maxwell's boat for a cruise in the Canaries or I'd prefer the Everglades now.

Angry is an understatement. The players have worked their oxf*rd arses off to get into this position and the EFL do this...

To be honest, I'm surprised the EFL haven't already kicked us out. It has a responsibility to all 72 members and we've taken the piss for 3 plus years. We've repeatedly broken the rules and we haven't been punished above and beyond the sanctions available to them.

They allowed Dai to take over because he could prove funding. He met the criteria, along with 71 other owners. In 2017, he had the funds, hadn't liquidated 2 other clubs. No-one can predict what his future intentions are.

[One Beer is never enough.]

SBWD have issued new statement.

I sometimes think SBWD need to consider the bigger picture and why these punishments are levied.

Yep.

I could do an annotation of what is wrong with that SBWD statement. Most paragraphs to be honest.

Para 1 - You need sporting sanctions to stop clubs from breaching financial fair play. As can be seen from our form over the past 20 games, we are running a play-off contention first 11 which the club doesnt have the resources to maintain. We are therefore gaining a sporting advantage over other clubs who are paying their taxes and wage bills on time but who have a less competitive squad.

Para 2 - Not imposing fines because of an impending sale would be treating Reading preferentially due to its own commercial concerns, so clearly that would be improper.

Para 3 - Just because someone isnt paying a fine, doesnt mean you stop issuing the fines when they continue to break the rules. Obviously.

Para 4 - The number of points we have had deducted is a function of the period time over which we have been breaking the rules - or known as cheating by others.

Para 5 - Of course the EFL do care about their rulebook more than the health and history of the clubs in the league. The rule book is there to protect the clubs' health. SBWD seem to forget we broke the financial fair play rules.

I know many people on here will disagree with those, but let's be honest, take your Reading biases out of it, and its all factually true.

Unfortunately all the above is correct, we may not like it, but it stands up to scrutiny; it will also mean of we do stay up other clubs may not be able to challenge how the EFL have dealt with us. Neither will the y be able to say they have treated us favourably. It's an administrative process as opposed to the emotional process we are going through. Also the Fück the EFL element of the statement is just childish and does a disservice to all the good off the pitch stuff SBWD (and others) have done and achieved.

Hopefully there will be good news on the sale in the near future to balance this off.