MATCHWATCH : Derby County (a)

[WestYorksRoyal]

Maybe refereeing is a good career. How many jobs can you be utterly shit in without any consequences?

[RoyalBlue]

I think there pen was a pen.

2nd yellow while very soft, if he has tripped him, it is a 2nd yellow as he is in a very attacking position. Hard to tell from.that angle if he did trip him.

Fine margins

Have you seen the replay? It was a clear handball by Gayle.

Whether or not he hand balled it before or after the collision, he could see the keeper coming and the keeper had no hope of getting the ball without clearing out the man.

The keeper gave away a penalty through his inexperience / exuberance.

Keeper gave ref a decision to make. A ref is behind the striker not side on like camera.

Keeper error all day long.

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

[Sutekh]

Have you seen the replay? It was a clear handball by Gayle.

Whether or not he hand balled it before or after the collision, he could see the keeper coming and the keeper had no hope of getting the ball without clearing out the man.

The keeper gave away a penalty through his inexperience / exuberance.

Keeper gave ref a decision to make. A ref is behind the striker not side on like camera.

Keeper error all day long.

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

[Armadillo Roadkill]

Whether or not he hand balled it before or after the collision, he could see the keeper coming and the keeper had no hope of getting the ball without clearing out the man.

The keeper gave away a penalty through his inexperience / exuberance.

Keeper gave ref a decision to make. A ref is behind the striker not side on like camera.

Keeper error all day long.

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

I was there, and all three refereeing calamities happened right in front of me.

Pareira had both hands either side of the ball, inside the penalty area, although he had yet to firmly grip it - Gayle knocked the ball with his arm out of Pereira's hands. Periera then colllided with Gayle.

If the referee can't see it he can't give it.

Gayle admitted it on the radio afterwards. The BBC Radio Derby pundit acknowleged it was handball and not a penalty.

Yiadom's red card was even clearer, if that's possible. There was absolutley no contact. The dive was not even a convincing one, more a caraciture of a dive; so bad it was almost sarcastic. Again, Malcolm Christie on BBC Derbyshire said it was never a red card.

To their credit, the response to both the penalty decision and the red card was pretty muted in the otherwise failry raucous home end behind the goal. Apart from a handful of Stone Island acne-ridden virgins at the front giving it the big one from behind the security of a massive police presence, the Derby fans knew both decisions were wrong.

And their goal from open play was clearly offside; their manager ackowledged it on the radio in his interview.

[Greatwesternline]

Whether or not he hand balled it before or after the collision, he could see the keeper coming and the keeper had no hope of getting the ball without clearing out the man.

The keeper gave away a penalty through his inexperience / exuberance.

Keeper gave ref a decision to make. A ref is behind the striker not side on like camera.

Keeper error all day long.

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

Player dived and conned the ref. They see things at full speed. Its a hard job. If he gives the foul it has to be a yellow.

Yiadom as an experienced player should know you only lunge in and go to ground if you are certain you will get the ball.

[Greatwesternline]

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

I was there, and all three refereeing calamities happened right in front of me.

Pareira had both hands either side of the ball, inside the penalty area, although he had yet to firmly grip it - Gayle knocked the ball with his arm out of Pereira's hands. Periera then colllided with Gayle.

If the referee can't see it he can't give it.

Gayle admitted it on the radio afterwards. The BBC Radio Derby pundit acknowleged it was handball and not a penalty.

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.

[RoyalBlue]

Whether or not he hand balled it before or after the collision, he could see the keeper coming and the keeper had no hope of getting the ball without clearing out the man.

The keeper gave away a penalty through his inexperience / exuberance.

Keeper gave ref a decision to make. A ref is behind the striker not side on like camera.

Keeper error all day long.

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

Video from the reverse angle would help but I doubt it exists. However, even from the footage available there looks to be very little contact, if any, followed by a spectacular dive from their player. Not sure how it warranted a yellow even if there was contact.

[Hendo]

JP had every chance of getting his hands on the ball and may well have done, if the two players then collide then how is that an offence. Is JP not allowed to run as quickly as Gayle. If Gayle handles the ball before any collision then that is the first offence and the point at which the ref should blow.

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

Player dived and conned the ref. They see things at full speed. Its a hard job. If he gives the foul it has to be a yellow.

Yiadom as an experienced player should know you only lunge in and go to ground if you are certain you will get the ball.

lolwut? He doesn't lunge at all and doesn't go to ground at any point. He pulls out of the tackle.

It is a clear and obvious dive which conned the ref.

[Snowflake Royal]

However, in both cases a Reading player probably made a poor decision to find themselves in a situation where a poor decision could be made by the ref.

How is Yids not tripping Gayle a poor decision?

And if Gayle doesn't punch the ball, Pereira has done a good job cutting out a dangerous ball over the top.

Dangerous? If Pereira doesn’t go, Gayle probably controls the ball and ends up 20-25 yards from goal at a wide angle with a defender coming back to get goalside.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.[/quote]

If he sees a coming together, he has to be sure Pereira got there second. He got there first, so not a penalty, irrespective of Gayle's handball.

[RoyalBlue]

And while I can appreciate he might not quite have seen it, when you see his Bolton screw up you have to wonder and are certainly less likely to give him the benefit. Any proper views on his Yiadom foul up?

I was there, and all three refereeing calamities happened right in front of me.

Pareira had both hands either side of the ball, inside the penalty area, although he had yet to firmly grip it - Gayle knocked the ball with his arm out of Pereira's hands. Periera then colllided with Gayle.

If the referee can't see it he can't give it.

Gayle admitted it on the radio afterwards. The BBC Radio Derby pundit acknowleged it was handball and not a penalty.

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.

And yet some of us (rightly IMO) criticise Button for rarely, if ever, coming out. IMO he was entitled to come for it, may well have even got hands to the ball as Gayle punched it away and who collided with whom. Should only award a penalty if he was sure and I don't see how he can have been. He also has form for making ridiculous decisions as Derby found out in a previous game.

Here is the master at work! https://www.skysports.com/football/video/30998/12955413/behind-the-whistle-bolton-2-1-derby-red-card-awarded

[rabidbee]

Why blame the ref and not the player who actually dived? If diving didn't often con refs, players wouldn't do it. As if we haven't won penalties/cards with dives over the years. It's annoying, it happens, just have to move on.

[Snowflake Royal]

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.

If he sees a coming together, he has to be sure Pereira got there second. He got there first, so not a penalty, irrespective of Gayle's handball.[/quote]
He doesn’t have to get there second, he has to unfairly impede Gayle, maybe through excessive or reckless force doing so.

[RoyalBlue]

Why blame the ref and not the player who actually dived? If diving didn't often con refs, players wouldn't do it. As if we haven't won penalties/cards with dives over the years. It's annoying, it happens, just have to move on.

Don't disagree about the cheating. However, even without the dive, did what happened in any shape or form justify a yellow?

[Greatwesternline]

I was there, and all three refereeing calamities happened right in front of me.

Pareira had both hands either side of the ball, inside the penalty area, although he had yet to firmly grip it - Gayle knocked the ball with his arm out of Pereira's hands. Periera then colllided with Gayle.

If the referee can't see it he can't give it.

Gayle admitted it on the radio afterwards. The BBC Radio Derby pundit acknowleged it was handball and not a penalty.

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.

And yet some of us (rightly IMO) criticise Button for rarely, if ever, coming out. IMO he was entitled to come for it, may well have even got hands to the ball as Gayle punched it away and who collided with whom. Should only award a penalty if he was sure and I don't see how he can have been. He also has form for making ridiculous decisions as Derby found out in a previous game.

Reasons why a keeper shouldnt come out:

If you misjudge it a bit, you are going to clatter the player and concede a penalty. High chance of goal.
If you misjudge it by a lot the player can chip you. High chance of goal.
If you misjudge it by a lot the player can take it round you and slot in an open goal.

If you don't come out, normal play resumes and the player has to beat you with a shot, in last night scenario, Gayle is on the edge of the box and doesnt have the ball under control, there is still a lot of work to do to score from there.

You should only come out if you are certain you will get the ball. Being entitled to come for a ball is irrelevant, you should be making risk based decisions. A keeper has all week to practise these scenarios. it was poor judgement.

On top of that the opposition cheated.

And yet many people blame the ref. Wrongly.

[Snowflake Royal]

[quote="Pepe The Horseman].[/quote]

Watched the clip again and handball is a bit clearer. Still don't think I'd expect the ref to see it.

[Greatwesternline]

The referee saw a coming together. So he gave it. What he couldnt see is the handball. So he can't give a handball if he didnt see it a handball. Pereira might feel hard done by, but a better lesson to draw from this is, dont rush out and give referees decisions to make.

If he sees a coming together, he has to be sure Pereira got there second. He got there first, so not a penalty, irrespective of Gayle's handball.

He doesn’t have to get there second, he has to unfairly impede Gayle, maybe through excessive or reckless force doing so.[/quote]

indeed, getting the ball isnt enough any more. Seems some people watch MOTD and various highlights but dont take in what they are being told.

Interpretations of rules change but many people's comprehension of this lags 5 or more years behind.

[Millsy]

Watched the game, missed the chat. CBA to read all the above because I'm a lazy ****.

General consensus please on:

1) Yids' sending off.

2) Penalty decision.

Thanks.

FWIW overall I think we were bloody awful first half, but can hold our heads up high, decent effort and looked good considering 10 men. Pity about the time it takes for Selles to make appropriate subs but I think overall we did alright.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Watched the game, missed the chat. CBA to read all the above because I'm a lazy ****.

General consensus please on:

1) Yids' sending off.

2) Penalty decision.

Thanks.

FWIW overall I think we were bloody awful first half, but can hold our heads up high, decent effort and looked good considering 10 men. Pity about the time it takes for Selles to make appropriate subs but I think overall we did alright.

Both correct decisions.

[Snowflake Royal]

Watched the game, missed the chat. CBA to read all the above because I'm a lazy ****.

General consensus please on:

1) Yids' sending off.

2) Penalty decision.

Thanks.

FWIW overall I think we were bloody awful first half, but can hold our heads up high, decent effort and looked good considering 10 men. Pity about the time it takes for Selles to make appropriate subs but I think overall we did alright.

General consensus is both outrageous.

With a bit of dissent that Pereira gave the ref a call to make and there was little chance the ref could see a handball