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[From Despair To Where?]

But why wouldn't you just go to Stockport or Tranmere?

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

I wonder if anybody trainspots these days

[Crusader Royal]

My tuppence worth! I think that the Americans (as in Wrexham) are attempting to draw locals back to the game, Wrexham has good transport links to both Liverpool and Manchester. How often can they get tickets to see the big clubs and the cost associated with this, invest in a small club with big ambitions and as you can see it seems to be working (second in league 2 at the moment).

But why wouldn't you just go to Stockport or Tranmere?

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

[Hendo]

Wrexham has an incredible curry house - https://www.ijazzwrexham.co.uk/

That's all I have to add.

[Fox Talbot]

But why wouldn't you just go to Stockport or Tranmere?

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

The missing point of this post is surely that the match was played at HUNGERFORD - or are we meant to guess that from the poster's name?!

[Clyde1998]

But why wouldn't you just go to Stockport or Tranmere?

Not Welsh teams. Wrexham has a large catchment area.

Wrexham itself is a small town though, and there isn't that large a population who don't have loyalties to bigger clubs.

Wrexham's highest average ever is 11600, and their crowds do seem to drop like a stone when the glory days tail off.

I would expect them to do challenge in League One next year, but buying their way out of the Championship will be much harder. Will the bandwagon jumpers stick around if they are mid-table? Will interest from TV viewers stay high without there being any drama?

I fully expect to hit a wall in League One, but agree they could challenge in League One next season (for the play-offs).

Interestingly*, they made a £5m loss in 2022-23 (National League), with turnover of £10m (so a loss of 50% of turnover). Their revenue sources will be an issue going forward. A breakdown of their turnover was:

by class of business

• Matchday Admissions - £2.84m (£2.40m in 2021-22)
• Matchday Commercial - £284k (£254k)
• Football - £1.31m (£531k)
• Retail - £3.43m (£1.30m)
• Sponsorship and Advertising - £1.88m (£1.05m)
• Stadium Hire and Catering - £702k (£429k)
• Other - £24k (£7k)

by geography

• United Kingdom - £7.84m (£5.30m)
• Europe - £55k (£14k)
• Rest of World - £2.58m (£657k)

All matchday, football and stadium related turnover will be in the UK. Retail and sponsorship revenue will be the only things that could be a source of revenue outside the UK.

That £2.64m non-UK revenue figure (Europe + Rest of World) implies around 50% of their retail and sponsorship sales come from outside the UK. It's likely that most sponsorship deals will be counted under the UK (as the primary sponsors will be kit and stadium). If all sponsorship is categorised as UK, then around 75% of their retail revenue is international.

As you ask, how long will those people realistically stick around for? This feels like a fad that will fade out, especially as there's only so much merchandising people can buy. They may sell a large amount of shirts initially, but a sizable percentage won't be buying a new one each season. Unless they get to the Premier League, it feels like the peak of their retail sales (perhaps this season will top it, certainly not next).

Additionally, international followers will struggle to maintain interest, as they won't have built up loyalty to the club that people who regularly go to matches (or have in the past) and/or live in the local area will have. A lot of them will lose interest naturally over time, as there'll be little to hold them - especially if they become a mid-table League One club with little for Netflix(?) to make documentaries about (as you've mentioned). For international followers it's merely a TV show, not a football club - people will be interested when it's entertaining, but will stop watching once it starts getting repetitive and move on to the next thing.

A decline in retail sales will be offset by increased broadcasting revenue, but suggests they won't significantly increase their revenue this season or in League One to allow them to have a playing budget beyond typical League One clubs which they had in the National League.

[WestYorksRoyal]

The Athletic estimates their revenue will hit c. £20m this season due to the US presence and sponsors that the TV series has generated. That's a mid table Championship budget. If they can hit those sort of levels, promotion from L1 is definitely achievable, but probably beyond them next season given the bulk of the squad was national league recently.

[rabidbee]

I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

[rabidbee]

But why wouldn't you just go to Stockport or Tranmere?

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

I was gutted Bracknell missed out in the play-offs last year, as I would definitely have made the effort to see them at Twerton Park, maybe even at Chippenham and Weston. I haven't seen a Bracknell match for almost 30 years. Not sure I can drag my family to Southern League matches.

[Tinpot Royal]

I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

Yes it was

[Clyde1998]

The Athletic estimates their revenue will hit c. £20m this season due to the US presence and sponsors that the TV series has generated. That's a mid table Championship budget. If they can hit those sort of levels, promotion from L1 is definitely achievable, but probably beyond them next season given the bulk of the squad was national league recently.

If they are up at £20m revenue, then they can get to the Championship. That's somewhat more than we were getting in the Championship.

Just reading the Athletic article now and it suggests their most recent sponsorship deals with United Airlines and SToK Coffee Brew came into effect in July of the current financial year. I wonder what the typical sponsorship is for a team of Wrexham's fanbase? I wouldn't be surprised if it was ten times lower than what Wrexham are getting.

[Crusader Royal]

I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

[Crusader Royal]

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

The missing point of this post is surely that the match was played at HUNGERFORD - or are we meant to guess that from the poster's name?!

It wasn’t the ‘point’ at all. An interesting aside perhaps. There were Plymouth fans who had travelled up for a home game played 180 miles from their own ground but the point was that they follow Parkway not Argyle. Like fans at lots of London clubs opt for Harrow, Dulwich, Hanwell, Clapton etc rather than Sutton, Wimbledon or Orient let alone Fulham, West Ham or Chelsea !

[WestYorksRoyal]

The Athletic estimates their revenue will hit c. £20m this season due to the US presence and sponsors that the TV series has generated. That's a mid table Championship budget. If they can hit those sort of levels, promotion from L1 is definitely achievable, but probably beyond them next season given the bulk of the squad was national league recently.

If they are up at £20m revenue, then they can get to the Championship. That's somewhat more than we were getting in the Championship.

Just reading the Athletic article now and it suggests their most recent sponsorship deals with United Airlines and SToK Coffee Brew came into effect in July of the current financial year. I wonder what the typical sponsorship is for a team of Wrexham's fanbase? I wouldn't be surprised if it was ten times lower than what Wrexham are getting.

Without sounding harsh, it can't last. How many people live around Wrexham to sustain it? The publicity their owners are generating is in its nature fickle and short term; Hollywood doesn't have a long attention span.

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

[themwasthedays]

Several games immediately spring to mind when talking about the South Bank being the 'away end'; Millwall, Pompey, Villa, & 'shared' with numerous others

[Snowflake Royal]

The Athletic estimates their revenue will hit c. £20m this season due to the US presence and sponsors that the TV series has generated. That's a mid table Championship budget. If they can hit those sort of levels, promotion from L1 is definitely achievable, but probably beyond them next season given the bulk of the squad was national league recently.

Midtable? It's top end Champ. Not many clubs can beat that without parachute payments

[Crusader Royal]

Might the fact that IIRC there is a minority shareholder of the club be an issue ?
Doesn’t one of the Thai’s still have some holding ?
Obviously Dai can’t sell their shares and if a new owner wants 100 % of the club then the small shareholder has a bit of a ransom situation.
I can’t remember the rules on acquiring a company, IIRC if you are buying more than a certain % of the shares you have to offer to buy the rest but I don’t think a small shareholder can be forced to sell.
I guess you could do what SJM did and change the structure of the club so the small shareholders own shares in a defunct company.
It may be a total red herring but just wondered if it might be something adding to conversations.
And it is RFC not REP that I’m thinking of.

[Tinpot Royal]

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

Which is was as far back as I can remember (first game in 1989)

[Franchise FC]

Might the fact that IIRC there is a minority shareholder of the club be an issue ?
Doesn’t one of the Thai’s still have some holding ?
Obviously Dai can’t sell their shares and if a new owner wants 100 % of the club then the small shareholder has a bit of a ransom situation.
I can’t remember the rules on acquiring a company, IIRC if you are buying more than a certain % of the shares you have to offer to buy the rest but I don’t think a small shareholder can be forced to sell.
I guess you could do what SJM did and change the structure of the club so the small shareholders own shares in a defunct company.
It may be a total red herring but just wondered if it might be something adding to conversations.
And it is RFC not REP that I’m thinking of.

I may be out of touch with this but i seem to recall there’s a compulsory purchase option when a particular ownership threshold is reached
It may be that I’m confusing that with the compulsory offer if a certain level is reached

[Sutekh]

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

Which is was as far back as I can remember (first game in 1989)

You used to be able to pay 50p(?) or something to walk through to the South Bank from the Town End and that was late 70s/early 80s so segregation didn't strike me as much of a thing at EP until the mid 80s when suddenly fences and Bristol City fans appeared.

[Sutekh]

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

I was gutted Bracknell missed out in the play-offs last year, as I would definitely have made the effort to see them at Twerton Park, maybe even at Chippenham and Weston. I haven't seen a Bracknell match for almost 30 years. Not sure I can drag my family to Southern League matches.

Yes that was annoying esp. if they'd managed to hang onto to their lead at home to Weston in the first mach of the season instead of conceding a 96th minute equaliser they might have made it as Champions but instead got bogey team Truro (Bracknell have lost every single game against them (P6 L6)) in the play offs.