CONFRIMED: Latest rumours Confrimed as Unconfrimed

[The Royal Forester]

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

In my early days we would swap ends depending upon which way Reading were kicking.

Those were the days. I remember them well. Mind you we had to rush if the first kick was changed from the usual, and then back again at half time.

[Greatwesternline]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

[Stranded]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Düsseldorf are doing exactly that at the moment - have made up the loss in increased sponsorship deals but have played in front of full stadiums each home game as a result and are now 3rd in the table and stand a decent chance of promotion.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

[Snowflake Royal]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

[LightwaterRoyal]

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

In the last 32 years only Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool and Tottenham have been mainstays.

Newcastle and Villa - 29
West Ham - 28
Man City - 27
Southampton - 24

Next highest is Blackburn with 18

Only other teams to have spent at least 50% of their seasons in the Prem are Fulham, Leicester and Sunderland.

[Snowflake Royal]

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

In the last 32 years only Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool and Tottenham have been mainstays.

Newcastle and Villa - 29
West Ham - 28
Man City - 27
Southampton - 24

Next highest is Blackburn with 18

Only other teams to have spent at least 50% of their seasons in the Prem are Fulham, Leicester and Sunderland.

Nice, cheers. There's a few there that could easily drop out for another 5-10 years soon, and hard to see a blackburn sticking a return any time soon.

[dontbedaft]

How different is that to the times before football was invented in 1992 though? Teams having a successful period and rising up to the top division for a while then dropping back down the leagues for a while has happened throughout the past 150 years (Wolves, Portsmouth, Burnley etc). In the 70s/80s smaller teams like Watford, Swansea, Forest and Ipswich were all title challengers for a while before then dropping back down again some years later. What I think is different now is that the money distribution is such that a small group of the most marketable teams are essentially relegation-proof and there is now a much greater risk of teams that have a spell at the top before dropping back down to have a serious risk of going out of existence altogether.

[Snowflake Royal]

I mean that would just reinforce the point.

[under the tin]

How different is that to the times before football was invented in 1992 though? Teams having a successful period and rising up to the top division for a while then dropping back down the leagues for a while has happened throughout the past 150 years (Wolves, Portsmouth, Burnley etc). In the 70s/80s smaller teams like Watford, Swansea, Forest and Ipswich were all title challengers for a while before then dropping back down again some years later. What I think is different now is that the money distribution is such that a small group of the most marketable teams are essentially relegation-proof and there is now a much greater risk of teams that have a spell at the top before dropping back down to have a serious risk of going out of existence altogether.

Agreed.
Which is pretty much why this fan has no particular desire to ever see our club get back to the PL again. The "competition" is a busted flush.
We've been to the top of that hill, and the view ain't what it's cracked up to be.
The only slim chance of winning any silverware for the clubs in the PL who basically "make up the numbers" is in the cup competitions, but that route also applies to non-PL clubs.
You could concievably make a case for a club to soft-pedal in the league, but throw the kitchen sink at the cups!
Win a domestic trophy, get guaranteed entry into the European-wide cup competition as a result, extra TV revenue etc.

[East Grinstead Royal]

…then have your squad ripped apart by the players’ agents who have their eyes on a tidy pay-out!

[WestYorksRoyal]

Each to their own I guess. I'd happily take being a Brentford, Fulham or Palace, let alone a Brighton. Just as long as I continued to appreciate it. Some younger Palace fans want Parish and fellow owners out; the same owners who bought them out from administration, avoided relegation to L1 and then delivered a decade in the top flight. If Reading fans ever become disillusioned with that, just fold the club and let them go to Chelsea.

[royalgent]

To add fuel to the Redwood Capital fire, it does look like that company are looking to put together an investment in the UK. Speculation as they may just be looking to invest in the UK generally but interesting reading…

Companies House has an entity called “Red Uk Purchaser Limited” being incorporated in Bracknell on 28 September 2023 - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/15172429

It looks like the registered address for the company is a real address rather than a postbox - it’s a large office that Panasonic operate out of.

That new company’s director is listed as Kevin Loden, who is Partner and GC at Redwood Holdings. The owners of the company includes one Alan Butler, who is also listed as a director of Redwood.

[Stranded]

To add fuel to the Redwood Capital fire, it does look like that company are looking to put together an investment in the UK. Speculation as they may just be looking to invest in the UK generally but interesting reading…

Companies House has an entity called “Red Uk Purchaser Limited” being incorporated in Bracknell on 28 September 2023 - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/15172429

It looks like the registered address for the company is a real address rather than a postbox - it’s a large office that Panasonic operate out of.

That new company’s director is listed as Kevin Loden, who is Partner and GC at Redwood Holdings. The owners of the company includes one Alan Butler, who is also listed as a director of Redwood.

Jim Davis also listed as a "person with control" - Davis is Biscotti's cousin and co-founder of Redwood. He is also a minority owner of the St Louis Cardinals baseball team.

None of this confirms it is them but does point in their direction.

[Brum Royal]

The Athletic estimates their revenue will hit c. £20m this season due to the US presence and sponsors that the TV series has generated. That's a mid table Championship budget. If they can hit those sort of levels, promotion from L1 is definitely achievable, but probably beyond them next season given the bulk of the squad was national league recently.

If they are up at £20m revenue, then they can get to the Championship. That's somewhat more than we were getting in the Championship.

Just reading the Athletic article now and it suggests their most recent sponsorship deals with United Airlines and SToK Coffee Brew came into effect in July of the current financial year. I wonder what the typical sponsorship is for a team of Wrexham's fanbase? I wouldn't be surprised if it was ten times lower than what Wrexham are getting.

Without sounding harsh, it can't last. How many people live around Wrexham to sustain it? The publicity their owners are generating is in its nature fickle and short term; Hollywood doesn't have a long attention span.

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

Wrexham do have the potential to become a similar size club to ourselves - yes they have Liverpool to the north (in the same way we have London), but otherwise there's no decent size football club in any direction until you get to basically Wolverhampton. That's a huge area to draw from - north Wales, mid Wales, parts of Shropshire etc. If they continue to grow as they are, they can establish themselves as a decent sized club for that part of the country. They have a rivalry with Shrewsbury which they'll be looking forward to renewing next season (especially after the Cup match this year), but that's it.

[morganb]

To add fuel to the Redwood Capital fire, it does look like that company are looking to put together an investment in the UK. Speculation as they may just be looking to invest in the UK generally but interesting reading…

Companies House has an entity called “Red Uk Purchaser Limited” being incorporated in Bracknell on 28 September 2023 - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/15172429

It looks like the registered address for the company is a real address rather than a postbox - it’s a large office that Panasonic operate out of.

That new company’s director is listed as Kevin Loden, who is Partner and GC at Redwood Holdings. The owners of the company includes one Alan Butler, who is also listed as a director of Redwood.

Jim Davis also listed as a "person with control" - Davis is Biscotti's cousin and co-founder of Redwood. He is also a minority owner of the St Louis Cardinals baseball team.

None of this confirms it is them but does point in their direction.

If Jim Davis is involved I expect them to do away with Kingsley et al and replace them with:

[Hound]

Hmm something stirring?

SCL have just posted a video of Bearwood which seems a bit random and that Huang Kad chap is making some noise again

[Stranded]

Hmm something stirring?

SCL have just posted a video of Bearwood which seems a bit random and that Huang Kad chap is making some noise again

Huang Kad has basically revealed exactly what was posted on here earlier - that was from a new account to here so could be the same person.

[Hound]

Hmm something stirring?

SCL have just posted a video of Bearwood which seems a bit random and that Huang Kad chap is making some noise again

Huang Kad has basically revealed exactly what was posted on here earlier - that was from a new account to here so could be the same person.

Yep

[royalgent]

Hmm something stirring?

SCL have just posted a video of Bearwood which seems a bit random and that Huang Kad chap is making some noise again

Huang Kad has basically revealed exactly what was posted on here earlier - that was from a new account to here so could be the same person.

Nope, can confirm I’m not the weird guy on Twitter pretending to be an ITK individual linked to the Thais.