CONFRIMED: Latest rumours Confrimed as Unconfrimed

[Sutekh]

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

Which is was as far back as I can remember (first game in 1989)

You used to be able to pay 50p(?) or something to walk through to the South Bank from the Town End and that was late 70s/early 80s so segregation didn't strike me as much of a thing at EP until the mid 80s when suddenly fences and Bristol City fans appeared.

[Sutekh]

This is something that's close to my heart.
It must be so, so tempting just to follow the "big boys" in urban areas like Greater Manchester. I have a lot of time for folk who actually choose to forego the United's, City's and follow the Stockport's, Orient's, Tranmere's, Port Vale's, Rochdale's of this world. One of my customers, a very old boy in Lower Earley still regularly travels up to watch his lifelong love, Oldham Athletic.
I feel that people like that are my brethren, as in the early 1970's this nobber used to photograph and note down the numbers of locomotives at Reading General, and on a Saturday morning those days, platform 5 was always very well populated with those spending a mere 25 minutes or so on a train for the choice of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, et al. That same Saturday afternoon, I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

There is a whole ecosystem of fans
Last weekend Plymouth Parkway played Swindon Supermarine. Both teams had die hard fans who had chosen their team rather than the bigger ( but hardly glamorous) teams in their city/town.

I was gutted Bracknell missed out in the play-offs last year, as I would definitely have made the effort to see them at Twerton Park, maybe even at Chippenham and Weston. I haven't seen a Bracknell match for almost 30 years. Not sure I can drag my family to Southern League matches.

Yes that was annoying esp. if they'd managed to hang onto to their lead at home to Weston in the first mach of the season instead of conceding a 96th minute equaliser they might have made it as Champions but instead got bogey team Truro (Bracknell have lost every single game against them (P6 L6)) in the play offs.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

Which is was as far back as I can remember (first game in 1989)

You used to be able to pay 50p(?) or something to walk through to the South Bank from the Town End and that was late 70s/early 80s so segregation didn't strike me as much of a thing at EP until the mid 80s when suddenly fences and Bristol City fans appeared.

The Town End became designated away fans only in early 1980's, when the first fences were put up following issues and pitch invasions with Bristol City as above, and Portsmouth also caused a number of problems in 1977 & 1979. A few years later the stand nearest the town end (A stand I think it was) was also designated away.

[under the tin]

I was in the town end at EP, with another 4000 die hards.

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

Very Early seventies, pre-segregation.
I can remember a game vs. Sheff Weds around that time, can't be exact about the date, but I remember their star player was called Roger Wylde. By kick off there must have been 1500+ of their fans singing under the tin. in the South Bank.

[LUX]

Dec 1976, just before Xmas iirc. Evening match.

Other teams that completely took over the Southbank in those days were Pompey twice, Oxford and, perhaps surprisingly, Northampton.

[Brogue]

Dec 1976, just before Xmas iirc. Evening match.

Other teams that completely took over the Southbank in those days were Pompey twice, Oxford and, perhaps surprisingly, Northampton.

Swansea were the worst weren’t they? completely destroyed the Oxford road. Causing thousands of pounds worth of improvements. It was them that spray painted Reading west bridge over the occy road I’m sure.

[South Coast Royal]

Wasn't the Town End the away end?

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

In my early days we would swap ends depending upon which way Reading were kicking.

[Lower West]

Might the fact that IIRC there is a minority shareholder of the club be an issue ?
Doesn’t one of the Thai’s still have some holding ?
Obviously Dai can’t sell their shares and if a new owner wants 100 % of the club then the small shareholder has a bit of a ransom situation.
I can’t remember the rules on acquiring a company, IIRC if you are buying more than a certain % of the shares you have to offer to buy the rest but I don’t think a small shareholder can be forced to sell.
I guess you could do what SJM did and change the structure of the club so the small shareholders own shares in a defunct company.
It may be a total red herring but just wondered if it might be something adding to conversations.
And it is RFC not REP that I’m thinking of.

I may be out of touch with this but i seem to recall there’s a compulsory purchase option when a particular ownership threshold is reached
It may be that I’m confusing that with the compulsory offer if a certain level is reached

There maybe a shareholder agreement in place. Minority shareholders often protect themselves against being bulldozed by a majority shakeholder.

The US consortium may well have an interest in acquiring the land next to the ground. To achieve a return on their investment. The football club itself holds just under a 25% stake. Far more complex set of negotiations going on behind the scenses. With many vested interests.

[The Royal Forester]

Yes it was

Only once segregation became a thing.
I have been to games when the Tilehurst End was the away end (official) and where everyone was just mixed in. Some games the South Bank was pretty much the away end !

In my early days we would swap ends depending upon which way Reading were kicking.

Those were the days. I remember them well. Mind you we had to rush if the first kick was changed from the usual, and then back again at half time.

[Greatwesternline]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

[Stranded]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Düsseldorf are doing exactly that at the moment - have made up the loss in increased sponsorship deals but have played in front of full stadiums each home game as a result and are now 3rd in the table and stand a decent chance of promotion.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

[Snowflake Royal]

Their involvement can give them some golden years and leave them in a much better position when they finally leave, but long term I don't see how Wrexham can sustain a Championship team in the same way we can't sustain a Premier League club.

Population, geography and being a "big club" doesn't win you games and you will always get teams overperforming and underperformed these factors. But in the long term, they matter.

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

[LightwaterRoyal]

I think Reading can sustain a Premier League team.

Gate receipts in the PL are not the be all and end all. There are plenty of teams in the PL with 24-30k seater stadia.

If your annual income is circa £150m, the impact of an extra 5 thousand season tickets at £800 a pop is the difference of £4m is basically a quarter of one transfer fee.

A team could give away their tickets in the PL and still be competitive.

I do agree however that outside the PL, ownership interest is the only long term source of competitiveness.

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

In the last 32 years only Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool and Tottenham have been mainstays.

Newcastle and Villa - 29
West Ham - 28
Man City - 27
Southampton - 24

Next highest is Blackburn with 18

Only other teams to have spent at least 50% of their seasons in the Prem are Fulham, Leicester and Sunderland.

[Snowflake Royal]

Put it this way, I expect clubs like Fulham, Palace, Brighton and Brentford will get relegated eventually in the same way as previously well run clubs like Swansea, Stoke and Leicester did. Forget the big 6, it's hard to compete with Villa, West Ham and Everton.

There is so little room for error that all clubs eventually succumb to a bad managerial appointment or poor transfer window. I can see us having a run like those aforementioned clubs, but ultimately half the PL spots are reserve for clubs in a different stratosphere to ourselves.

Yeah this.

How many teams have spent at least 20 of the last 30 years in the PL? How many of them have an unbroken 20 year run?

Bar a few, everyone dips eventually.

In the last 32 years only Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool and Tottenham have been mainstays.

Newcastle and Villa - 29
West Ham - 28
Man City - 27
Southampton - 24

Next highest is Blackburn with 18

Only other teams to have spent at least 50% of their seasons in the Prem are Fulham, Leicester and Sunderland.

Nice, cheers. There's a few there that could easily drop out for another 5-10 years soon, and hard to see a blackburn sticking a return any time soon.

[dontbedaft]

How different is that to the times before football was invented in 1992 though? Teams having a successful period and rising up to the top division for a while then dropping back down the leagues for a while has happened throughout the past 150 years (Wolves, Portsmouth, Burnley etc). In the 70s/80s smaller teams like Watford, Swansea, Forest and Ipswich were all title challengers for a while before then dropping back down again some years later. What I think is different now is that the money distribution is such that a small group of the most marketable teams are essentially relegation-proof and there is now a much greater risk of teams that have a spell at the top before dropping back down to have a serious risk of going out of existence altogether.

[Snowflake Royal]

I mean that would just reinforce the point.

[under the tin]

How different is that to the times before football was invented in 1992 though? Teams having a successful period and rising up to the top division for a while then dropping back down the leagues for a while has happened throughout the past 150 years (Wolves, Portsmouth, Burnley etc). In the 70s/80s smaller teams like Watford, Swansea, Forest and Ipswich were all title challengers for a while before then dropping back down again some years later. What I think is different now is that the money distribution is such that a small group of the most marketable teams are essentially relegation-proof and there is now a much greater risk of teams that have a spell at the top before dropping back down to have a serious risk of going out of existence altogether.

Agreed.
Which is pretty much why this fan has no particular desire to ever see our club get back to the PL again. The "competition" is a busted flush.
We've been to the top of that hill, and the view ain't what it's cracked up to be.
The only slim chance of winning any silverware for the clubs in the PL who basically "make up the numbers" is in the cup competitions, but that route also applies to non-PL clubs.
You could concievably make a case for a club to soft-pedal in the league, but throw the kitchen sink at the cups!
Win a domestic trophy, get guaranteed entry into the European-wide cup competition as a result, extra TV revenue etc.

[East Grinstead Royal]

…then have your squad ripped apart by the players’ agents who have their eyes on a tidy pay-out!

[WestYorksRoyal]

Each to their own I guess. I'd happily take being a Brentford, Fulham or Palace, let alone a Brighton. Just as long as I continued to appreciate it. Some younger Palace fans want Parish and fellow owners out; the same owners who bought them out from administration, avoided relegation to L1 and then delivered a decade in the top flight. If Reading fans ever become disillusioned with that, just fold the club and let them go to Chelsea.