VAR

[Winston Biscuit]

I don't want VAR as it changes the game too much. Even if used to make all the calls correct, it would need to change too much about how the game is to be able to do that, and that to me is not success.

get it in the bin

There isn't a situation in 2024 where a multi-billion pound global football industry doesn't use available technology (in an attempt) to strengthen the integrity of results.

Probs wouldn't disagree with that tbh. My dislike of VAR is mostly around the amount the game has had to change and adapt to get it in the sport, and on the balance of whether having VAR in the sport, at the loss of the other stuff, I would say it comes down massively as a fail (IMO, based on what I want from football)

Also if you are correct in what you say then its only the thin end of the wedge right now. If the technology is there why don't they check to be sure corners and throw in are awarded correctly? etc

[Silver Fox]

I genuinely don't understand why not

Because football is a worldwide game?
Should we perhaps make the goal bigger so that we see more goals or widen pitches or do any other changes?

Let's get it to work at the best level that we can just as with the review system in cricket.

It's all moot anyway, just look at the FA Cup as an example.

Use it at Prem grounds only, still think that's pretty unfair. So there already isn't even a level playing field in our own country, let alone the rest of the continent.

I saw that it's in use for the playoff finals, because they're at Wembley, despite not being used in the football league the rest of the season

[Hendo]

Because football is a worldwide game?
Should we perhaps make the goal bigger so that we see more goals or widen pitches or do any other changes?

Let's get it to work at the best level that we can just as with the review system in cricket.

It's all moot anyway, just look at the FA Cup as an example.

Use it at Prem grounds only, still think that's pretty unfair. So there already isn't even a level playing field in our own country, let alone the rest of the continent.

I saw that it's in use for the playoff finals, because they're at Wembley, despite not being used in the football league the rest of the season

Yeah, that feels like absolute madness as well.

[genome]

Get rid, if you read the first few pages of this thread, a lot of the concerns people had were bang on

[Winston Biscuit]

I am generally not in favour of it as I prefer whatever helps the game to keep flowing as much as possible

amen sister!

[WestYorksRoyal]

If they do vote to get rid, I can't wait to see the reaction when a ref howler determines the title or a relegation spot.

[genome]

He's not being ridiculous, Sanguine. It's a legitimate concern.

Goal celebrations are a huge part of the emotional impact of football, and if there's a chance your goal could be ruled out because the referee needs to be 100% sure there's no infringement, it's going to completely ruin the moment. You saw it in the Tottenham vs Rochdale game. It's a slippery slope and it needs to be clarified before being brought in properly.

I just don't feel you're getting the emotional side of the argument. You need to realise why the vast majority of people watch football, discrediting that and calling it "ridiculous" or "precious" is just a bit obtuse.

Called it in 2018, now an actual Premier League club is citing it as a reason to get rid

[Winston Biscuit]

and FTR I don't think the PL will vote to get rid of it

[Franchise FC]

If we can use it relatively successfully in every other major league, then binning it is a huge backwards step.

depends what you class successful as tbh

Well, anecdotally per Stranded, it's not perfect in the Bundesliga but works much better. I don't recall VAR making many headlines in La Liga, save for a couple of times when it dared to rule against Real Madrid.

The 'problem' with the technology isn't really about the tech itself, in my view. It's football culture. It wants offside, it just doesn't want offside to be determined by a computer, because that's pedantic. It wants VAR to deal with reckless challenges, but it wants its own players to escape sanction because their boot brushed the ball before subsequently crushing a shin. And mostly it wants VAR to be there went it wants it, and not when it doesn't - see hundreds of City fans visibly calling for it after Porro's challenge earlier this week, correctly sanctioned with a yellow card.

Well, La Liga has had one major (very major) technology issue this season when Barca were denied a ‘goal’ because a) the goalline tech was apparently not working and b) the images created from the VAR cameras appeared to show the ball about half a millimetre from being over the line
Barca wanted the game replayed because of it (of course they did)
But that wasn’t really a VAR issue

Only seen a couple of debatable ones where there were clearly subjective elements.
The refs seem more than capable of sticking to a decision, which the PL ones don’t

Don’t recall much else

[Sanguine]

depends what you class successful as tbh

Well, anecdotally per Stranded, it's not perfect in the Bundesliga but works much better. I don't recall VAR making many headlines in La Liga, save for a couple of times when it dared to rule against Real Madrid.

The 'problem' with the technology isn't really about the tech itself, in my view. It's football culture. It wants offside, it just doesn't want offside to be determined by a computer, because that's pedantic. It wants VAR to deal with reckless challenges, but it wants its own players to escape sanction because their boot brushed the ball before subsequently crushing a shin. And mostly it wants VAR to be there went it wants it, and not when it doesn't - see hundreds of City fans visibly calling for it after Porro's challenge earlier this week, correctly sanctioned with a yellow card.

Well, La Liga has had one major (very major) technology issue this season when Barca were denied a ‘goal’ because a) the goalline tech was apparently not working and b) the images created from the VAR cameras appeared to show the ball about half a millimetre from being over the line
Barca wanted the game replayed because of it (of course they did)
But that wasn’t really a VAR issue

Only seen a couple of debatable ones where there were clearly subjective elements.
The refs seem more than capable of sticking to a decision, which the PL ones don’t

Don’t recall much else

That was my perception - that on the continent referees are asked to review fewer decisions, and that when they are, they are much more confident to say, 'nah, i'm good mate', and crack on per the original call.

[Franchise FC]

Well, anecdotally per Stranded, it's not perfect in the Bundesliga but works much better. I don't recall VAR making many headlines in La Liga, save for a couple of times when it dared to rule against Real Madrid.

The 'problem' with the technology isn't really about the tech itself, in my view. It's football culture. It wants offside, it just doesn't want offside to be determined by a computer, because that's pedantic. It wants VAR to deal with reckless challenges, but it wants its own players to escape sanction because their boot brushed the ball before subsequently crushing a shin. And mostly it wants VAR to be there went it wants it, and not when it doesn't - see hundreds of City fans visibly calling for it after Porro's challenge earlier this week, correctly sanctioned with a yellow card.

Well, La Liga has had one major (very major) technology issue this season when Barca were denied a ‘goal’ because a) the goalline tech was apparently not working and b) the images created from the VAR cameras appeared to show the ball about half a millimetre from being over the line
Barca wanted the game replayed because of it (of course they did)
But that wasn’t really a VAR issue

Only seen a couple of debatable ones where there were clearly subjective elements.
The refs seem more than capable of sticking to a decision, which the PL ones don’t

Don’t recall much else

That was my perception - that on the continent referees are asked to review fewer decisions, and that when they are, they are much more confident to say, 'nah, i'm good mate', and crack on per the original call.

That does seem to be the case

[Stranded]

One other thing that is helping here with VAR and its use - there is a Sunday morning highlights show and most weeks, they have one of the refs who officiated a game the day before to explain the thought process of why a division was given and why VAR was used.

The ref of the Cologne- Union game was on on Sunday and asked about the penalty VAR gave Cologne which started their comeback - he simply stated that he thought there was an infringement but he couldn't see it as a player blocked his view, so he asked for help from VAR who confirmed there was an infringement - penalty.

I know Howard Webb does his show but having the actual ref explain things calmly and in a way that isn't defensive is having a great impact on understanding.

[BRO_BOT]

I am generally not in favour of it as I prefer whatever helps the game to keep flowing as much as possible

aMEN sister!

you came so close to being non-sexist

it really is a minefield

[Winston Biscuit]

FIFA now trialling a new approach where each team gets 2 VAR challenges and there is no VAR involvement until one of the teams uses a VAR challenge

[Sutekh]

FIFA now trialling a new approach where each team gets 2 VAR challenges and there is no VAR involvement until one of the teams uses a VAR challenge

So one team will use a challenge as quickly as possible so VAR starts getting involved asap and presumably saves them having to use the second challenge.

[Mr Angry]

My reading of this was that it was intended to be used as they do in cricket, when a team goes up to the 3rd umpire; they have a certain number of reviews which they use when they think a mistake has been made. If they were right, they keep that review; if wrong, they lose it. If they use up all of their reviews and a clear cock up happens, tough. (Think Stuart Broad not walking v Australia, or Lyon not having any reviews left at Headingley when he had Stokes lbw......)

So it wouldn't be "busy as usual" for VAR after the first appeal by a team; they would have 2 VAR reviews and if they are wrong, the lose it.

[Winston Biscuit]

FIFA now trialling a new approach where each team gets 2 VAR challenges and there is no VAR involvement until one of the teams uses a VAR challenge

So one team will use a challenge as quickly as possible so VAR starts getting involved asap and presumably saves them having to use the second challenge.

The first challenge doesn't kick-start VAR as usual. It just means there can be a max 4 VAR reviews in the game

[Franchise FC]

FIFA now trialling a new approach where each team gets 2 VAR challenges and there is no VAR involvement until one of the teams uses a VAR challenge

So one team will use a challenge as quickly as possible so VAR starts getting involved asap and presumably saves them having to use the second challenge.

The first challenge doesn't kick-start VAR as usual. It just means there can be a max 4 VAR reviews in the game

Given that VAR seems to work reasonably well in most countries I find it exasperating that FIFA would really try to fiddle just to help out the PL (and SPL)
I would prefer:
1. Those countries where it’s clearly working teaching the PL a thing or two
2. Have a completely separate VAR team from the referees. Perhaps use some of those that can’t manage the physical demands of refereeing in person so as not to lose the experience. May reduce the issue of not wanting to make your mate look silly
3. Time limit for review … somewhere between 15 and 30 seconds. If you can’t tell in that time, stays with on field decision. That would minimise the ‘celebrations on hold’ issue, although I accept it wouldn’t remove it altogether
4. Make the decision making audible … a la Rugby

I can see massive issues with subjectivity meaning VAR reviews could be lost on extreme marginals without the ‘relatively simple’ umpires call

[South Coast Royal]

My reading of this was that it was intended to be used as they do in cricket, when a team goes up to the 3rd umpire; they have a certain number of reviews which they use when they think a mistake has been made. If they were right, they keep that review; if wrong, they lose it. If they use up all of their reviews and a clear cock up happens, tough. (Think Stuart Broad not walking v Australia, or Lyon not having any reviews left at Headingley when he had Stokes lbw......)

So it wouldn't be "busy as usual" for VAR after the first appeal by a team; they would have 2 VAR reviews and if they are wrong, the lose it.

I don't follow NFL these days but don't they now have a review system?

[Franchise FC]

My reading of this was that it was intended to be used as they do in cricket, when a team goes up to the 3rd umpire; they have a certain number of reviews which they use when they think a mistake has been made. If they were right, they keep that review; if wrong, they lose it. If they use up all of their reviews and a clear cock up happens, tough. (Think Stuart Broad not walking v Australia, or Lyon not having any reviews left at Headingley when he had Stokes lbw......)

So it wouldn't be "busy as usual" for VAR after the first appeal by a team; they would have 2 VAR reviews and if they are wrong, the lose it.

I don't follow NFL these days but don't they now have a review system?

Had it for many years
Red flag challenge, if unsuccessful, costs the team a time out, if which they have three per half
The kicker here is that the timeouts are crucial for normal game play so ‘wasting’ one on a review can be extremely costly