England Vs. Spain

[WestYorksRoyal]

The BBC pundits were all saying it (but not quite ACTUALLY saying it) - Southgate HAS to be replaced if we are going to get the best out of this bunch players.

I don’t think Potter or Howe will be good / strong enough.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - Postecoglu would be great.

Strong rumours the next England manager will be Frank lampard. I’m done if that happens

Maybe the FA are putting those rumours out there so everyone settles for Southgate.

I think we should be going all out for Howe, and I think it's not impossible to tempt him away from Newcastle given the project there seems to be stalling.

[leon]

fcuk me - Lampard the next manager? That wouldn't surprise me. Hilarious.

[Royal Rother]

The BBC pundits were all saying it (but not quite ACTUALLY saying it) - Southgate HAS to be replaced if we are going to get the best out of this bunch players.

I don’t think Potter or Howe will be good / strong enough.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - Postecoglu would be great.

It doesn't need a big name. It needs the right fit. Ever heard of Spain's coach before this tournament? All his past jobs were with their youth sides.

Also, Spurs are a massive defensive liability under him. Spain would have scored 5 or 6 against a team like that tonight.

Although they only had 7 clean sheets, only 6 teams in the PL conceded fewer goals than Spurs last season. So it’s not as massive an issue as one might think.

[Royal Rother]

The BBC pundits were all saying it (but not quite ACTUALLY saying it) - Southgate HAS to be replaced if we are going to get the best out of this bunch players.

I don’t think Potter or Howe will be good / strong enough.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - Postecoglu would be great.

Strong rumours the next England manager will be Frank lampard. I’m done if that happens

With Stevie G as his assistant? I’m sure they’d work very well together.

[WestYorksRoyal]

fcuk me - Lampard the next manager? That wouldn't surprise me. Hilarious.

That's the worst part. It wouldn't surprise anybody.

[Harrison Delbridge]

fcuk me - Lampard the next manager? That wouldn't surprise me. Hilarious.

We cant trust Brogue tbf..he said we were getting a takeover and look how that's gone

[Royal Rother]

Yeah. Impossible situation when your two biggest players are shit all tournament and a negative to the whole team constantly.

Bellingham wasn't shit, just not very good.

Kane on the other hand....

I dunno, it seems a bit churlish right now to criticise Southgate but to me he is till too slow to make the changes.

Kane has been so clearly off the pace, and the change in momentum so marked when he went off, it is clear that he should not have started the final. It's not hindsight. Or rocket science. Clearly he likes a settled team and believes in only small tinkers, but it's always seemed to me that Southgate is just not quite brave enough to make those big calls.

Mainoo was clearly struggling out there. Palmer has looked adventurous and creative in all the games he has come on. The obvious chemistry he and Watkins showed in the semi, surely meant it was an obvious call to bring them on together.

Disappointing, but Southgate again showed that he just isn't quite up to winning a major tournament - everyone says he's a very strong man. In many respects I'm sure that's true - and it sounds a bit wishy washy, but maybe he's just a shade too nice.

I'm truly shocked that you have the same opinion about Southgate as you've had for the last 6 years at least.

I was pretty polite about it yesterday.

Not sure I can keep it up today. But yeah, I’ve said it all so many times over the last 6 years and nobody likes a “told you so” merchant so I’ll try very hard.

[Hendo]

Disappointed, but not as disappointed as I was 3 years ago.

Was never confident going into the game, Spain clearly the best side in the tournament and deserved winners.

[URZZZZ]

Time for Southgate to hold his head up and go. He’s done an excellent job on the whole and I dislike the dismissive notion that he can only beat “rubbish teams” but I just can’t foresee him making the final step

I thought it was quite poor that he lined up with Saka, Bellingham, Foden and Kane every game with the abundance of talent on the bench and did so little to change it. Spain showed the merits of having a bit more pace and directness down the flanks and whilst it isn’t a magic fix every game, someone like Gordon/Bowen could have made a difference yesterday

[St Pauli]

The Roman Catholic Church has failed me and failed England.

St Brigid, I want my 70p back.

[St Pauli]

On the plus side, they didn't drag it into extra time, so I was able to get the 2212 back to Cardiff from Reading, and managed to get some sleep before 5 hours of f/cking work today.

[Sanguine]

fcuk me - Lampard the next manager? That wouldn't surprise me. Hilarious.

That's the worst part. It wouldn't surprise anybody.

Why wouldn't it surprise anybody? Surprised at the lack of surprise at this rumour, tbh. Apart from the weird foray into the world of Allardyce, England have no record of such odd appointments, maybe McLaren the closest to it. Southgate had a chunk of work at the FA behind him when he was appointed, he was no wildcard pick.

[Sanguine]

Southgate has been terrific. He really has. Beyond that. The team was a shambles when he was appointed, and he has achieved the best set of tournament results in our history. We shouldn't underestimate his impact as a man-manager. If ever you wanted a squad to play for a boss, this is what we have now. And back to back finals at the Euros is an immense achievement, even if we couldn't get over the line. We could appoint anyone, pick anyone, say Ancelotti, and still lose two finals in a row. That's football.

But it probably is time for a different approach. We are lucky - and Southgate should take credit for this too because he hasn't been shy to blood players - that we have established a group of hugely talented young players at this level with multiple tournaments ahead of them. Even conservatively that core group of Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Mainoo, Guehi and, yes, Trent Alexander Arnold, should have four tournaments ahead of them yet. We have time to win with this group. That's seven players who should be in almost every England team picked for the next however many years. And that's an exciting position to be in.

But we saw the worst of Southgate in his rigid selections. Kane is clearly unfit or knackered - he shouldn't have started in the knockout stages. Last night's game was not one for Mainoo. He'll thrive when we have the ball, but for now at least, will be lost against teams that dominate possession. We needed a Gallagher or Wharton in there.

Pickford was excellent again last night, he comes out of this tournament with his reputation enhanced and as England's clear number one. Guehi was a revelation, there is something very Sol Campbell-like about his steady play and passing, and strength on the ball. Stones started slowly but was excellent in the latter stages of the tournament.

Lots to build on for England. Any doom and gloom is misplaced. But it's probably time for Gareth Southgate. Quite clearly - by some distance - the second best manager in England's history.

[LUX]

Disappointed, but not as disappointed as I was 3 years ago.

Was never confident going into the game, Spain clearly the best side in the tournament and deserved winners.

This sums it up.

I agree with Cmonurz’s analysis just above this post, but the reality is we were not as good as Spain, by pretty much any metric.

Of course we should have seen more of Palmer, Watkins, Bowen, Gordon, especially yesterday, it would have given us more of a chance.

[LUX]

One last thing. Kane was clearly well below par all tournament, and yet was its joint top scorer. Not bad.

[windermereROYAL]

Really can`t agree with the above, Southgate has fallen well short at many levels for me, we had a free ride to the WCF in 2018 and fell short in the semi final.
Germany, Ukraine and Denmark to reach euro 2020 before trying to defend a 1-0 lead for 85 minutes instead of trying to kill off Italy in the final.
WC 22 easy group before beating Senegal and losing to France.
The history books will say we were the 2nd best team in this tournament when clearly we weren`t because group results gave us another free ride to the final.
Southgate was too loyal to his regulars, it was painful to watch Kane struggle, with Saka and Foden offering very little service when there were options on the bench that were rarely used.

[Sanguine]

trying to defend a 1-0 lead for 85 minutes instead of trying to kill off Italy in the final.

And in another scenario, we kept attacking Italy and lost the final 3-1. Football isn't binary.

Re the above, I forgot Palmer too. We really do have an incredible core of young players - I think Trent is the oldest of the seven or eight, and is only 25.

[Sanguine]

One last thing. Kane was clearly well below par all tournament, and yet was its joint top scorer. Not bad.

Two penalties and a header. I love him, but very suddenly, and notwithstanding his excellent season for Bayern, he looks a little like one of those strikers who gets to 31/32 and disappears, at international level at least. Time will tell. But if he can't run in behind, or make space by coming for the ball, then he's next to useless.

[NathStPaul]

Strong rumours started by you?

[LUX]

One last thing. Kane was clearly well below par all tournament, and yet was its joint top scorer. Not bad.

Two penalties and a header. I love him, but very suddenly, and notwithstanding his excellent season for Bayern, he looks a little like one of those strikers who gets to 31/32 and disappears, at international level at least. Time will tell. But if he can't run in behind, or make space by coming for the ball, then he's next to useless.

I get your point, but it was one penalty.