England Vs. Spain

[Sanguine]

I believe Spain had very few players from the Big clubs (Real and Barca) and more from the lower levels.

Well, yes, but that's just reflective of the current state of the Real and Barca squads, rather than a conscious choice or strategy. Real's midfield is French and German. The only attacking Spanish player in Real's squad is Ceballos. As for Barca - Gavi has a knee injury, Pedri would have played in the final but was injured earlier in the tournament, Ansu Fati is injured. Their next big star, Pau Cubarsi, is Catalan.

I don't think there is any undue focus on 'superstars'. Clearly where we have too many players in one position (Saka, Palmer) then a boss has to make a call, but imho one of Southgate's biggest failures is not integrating TAA into the line-up. He's a bona fide 'generational' player as key a part of Liverpool's recent success as anyone. Of course Bellingham must play. Of course, frankly, until this tournament, Kane should start. Foden should play. Rice should play. We have an extraordinarily good bunch of young players. Any new manager just needs to get a tune out of them. I don't believe it impossible.

[WestYorksRoyal]

It's a fair observation about the lack of superstars. Cucarella is not a great player but he had a great tournament. Neither of their CBs or GK were top class but they were adequate. They had 3 genuine world class players; Rodri, Williams and Yamal. Plus Pedri before his injury.

But they were better than us, comfortably so.

[bcubed]

Well he's gone
Thank oxf*rd for that

[Sutekh]

Well he's gone
Thank oxf*rd for that

[Snowflake Royal]

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... euro-2024/

Including this gem....

England scored five goals in the 105 minutes Palmer was on the pitch and just three in the 525 he was not.

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

[BRO_BOT]

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... euro-2024/

Including this gem....

England scored five goals in the 105 minutes Palmer was on the pitch and just three in the 525 he was not.

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

Without reading the article I'm going to agree with Ian...it sounds like the sort of (surprising) thinking Sangers has been doing recently.

[Royal Rother]

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... euro-2024/

Including this gem....

England scored five goals in the 105 minutes Palmer was on the pitch and just three in the 525 he was not.

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

[Sutekh]

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... euro-2024/

Including this gem....

England scored five goals in the 105 minutes Palmer was on the pitch and just three in the 525 he was not.

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

Ditto Watkins

[Hendo]

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... euro-2024/

Including this gem....

England scored five goals in the 105 minutes Palmer was on the pitch and just three in the 525 he was not.

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

[Snowflake Royal]

That's just the sort of meaningless stat idiots use to reinforce their ill-considered opinion, isn't it?

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

[Sutekh]

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

Most stats are either half witted directly, or used by the half witted to demonstrate a half witted theory.

[bcubed]

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

Most stats are either half witted directly, or used by the half witted to demonstrate a half witted theory.

When you say most....

[BRO_BOT]

Priceless! If that's how you want to view it, that's absolutely fine with me.

My oft-stated opinion all the way through the tournament (ill-considered though it may be) was that Palmer was underused, and made a significant difference when he came on, so I (of course) found it quite striking!

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

'greed! Most likely to score a goal in the 75min - 90min+ period. More than one player changed, the game state had changed, etc etc

[BRO_BOT]

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

Most stats are either half witted directly, or used by the half witted to demonstrate a half witted theory.

When you say most....

[South Coast Royal]

Potentially, but some players just work much better when coming off the bench - see Le Fondre for one of the most obvious examples to us.

I'd have probably given Palmer a go in the last group game, just to see, but you can't say whether he'd have the same impact starting as he did coming off the bench.

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

'greed! Most likely to score a goal in the 75min - 90min+ period. More than one player changed, the game state had changed, etc etc

Is there any substance to your "most likely to score in the 75-90 minutes"?
I know that England scored some late goals but in football generally is this a fact or just a feeling, bearing in mind that after 75 minutes more often than not means around another further 20 minutes or so.?

Incidentally managers seem to get great credit when substitutions are made and they make a difference but seldom is the point made that if those players had started the game the result might have meant a clearer win and less angst around the final stages.
I did say "might".

[Franchise FC]

It's not the idea that Palmer should have played more I have an issue with, it's the half-witted stat used as if it means anything when it doesn't.

'greed! Most likely to score a goal in the 75min - 90min+ period. More than one player changed, the game state had changed, etc etc

Is there any substance to your "most likely to score in the 75-90 minutes"?
I know that England scored some late goals but in football generally is this a fact or just a feeling, bearing in mind that after 75 minutes more often than not means around another further 20 minutes or so.?

Incidentally managers seem to get great credit when substitutions are made and they make a difference but seldom is the point made that if those players had started the game the result might have meant a clearer win and less angst around the final stages.
I did say "might".

Yes … plenty of studies which show that mental fatigue, game tension, fresh players vs tiring players all contribute to an uptick in late goals
I know you lot don’t like clicking on stuff but it’s pretty simple to find

Interestingly, the 2018 World Cup seemed to be a serious outlier

[South Coast Royal]

'greed! Most likely to score a goal in the 75min - 90min+ period. More than one player changed, the game state had changed, etc etc

Is there any substance to your "most likely to score in the 75-90 minutes"?
I know that England scored some late goals but in football generally is this a fact or just a feeling, bearing in mind that after 75 minutes more often than not means around another further 20 minutes or so.?

Incidentally managers seem to get great credit when substitutions are made and they make a difference but seldom is the point made that if those players had started the game the result might have meant a clearer win and less angst around the final stages.
I did say "might".

Yes … plenty of studies which show that mental fatigue, game tension, fresh players vs tiring players all contribute to an uptick in late goals
I know you lot don’t like clicking on stuff but it’s pretty simple to find

Interestingly, the 2018 World Cup seemed to be a serious outlier

No need to be facetious.
I was addressing my question to Brobot who delights in mathematical probability etc.

[Franchise FC]

Is there any substance to your "most likely to score in the 75-90 minutes"?
I know that England scored some late goals but in football generally is this a fact or just a feeling, bearing in mind that after 75 minutes more often than not means around another further 20 minutes or so.?

Incidentally managers seem to get great credit when substitutions are made and they make a difference but seldom is the point made that if those players had started the game the result might have meant a clearer win and less angst around the final stages.
I did say "might".

Yes … plenty of studies which show that mental fatigue, game tension, fresh players vs tiring players all contribute to an uptick in late goals
I know you lot don’t like clicking on stuff but it’s pretty simple to find

Interestingly, the 2018 World Cup seemed to be a serious outlier

No need to be facetious.
I was addressing my question to Brobot who delights in mathematical probability etc.

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

[South Coast Royal]

Yes … plenty of studies which show that mental fatigue, game tension, fresh players vs tiring players all contribute to an uptick in late goals
I know you lot don’t like clicking on stuff but it’s pretty simple to find

Interestingly, the 2018 World Cup seemed to be a serious outlier

No need to be facetious.
I was addressing my question to Brobot who delights in mathematical probability etc.

No intention to be facetious, just answering the question you raised
The second bit about clicking on stuff is because I could have included the links, but I know there’s some that don’t like that idea … you may or may not be one of those

Fine, I was assuming that the heat has got to you over there.

Of late you do appear to have joined the rather more argumentative section of our poster base although you have a lot of ground to make up on the top 3 of OMA, Ian and Sangers.

[Royal Rother]

Well this one should make the anti-statters foam at the mouth.

In 622 minutes played, Foden achieved 10 passes into the penalty area, and made 1 run into the penalty area. (I find that hard to believe but there you go, that's what the official Euros site says.)

In 144 minutes played, Palmer achieved 5 passes into the penalty area, and made 4 runs into the penalty area.

(PS I think my previously quoted 105 mins for Palmer was up to the semi final.)